Another lost knife

[Blackpowder]

Fishing today managed to loose yet another Opinel knife very annoying as the blade was just getting in fine fettle for filleting fish and game.   Absolutely cannot remember what number it was can  anyone please tell me which number is legal to carry in UK.

 

Blackpowder.

[ditchman]

16 minutes ago, Blackpowder said:

Fishing today managed to loose yet another Opinel knife very annoying as the blade was just getting in fine fettle for filleting fish and game.   Absolutely cannot remember what number it was can  anyone please tell me which number is legal to carry in UK.

 

Blackpowder.

there are 3 types of opinal

stainless steel

locking ring

no locking ring

the smaller ones tend to be unlockable.........and quite honestly they are bloody dangerous to the user...

[Acerforestry]

I agree, you need the locking version. My wife has my old one, which she never uses unfortunately. If you google "opinel UK legal carry" it should fill you in. They are better blades than most knives costing 5 times as much

[Stonepark]

I suspect no5 is the biggest EDC but no7 is most common.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Stonepark

[JohnfromUK]

The problem here is that - as others have said above - you need the locking version, as non locking can close on your fingers, but 'locking' is automatically putting it in the 'must have a good reason' category.  Blade length is to be less than 3 inches.

My own view is that fishing, many outdoor activities, gardening etc. are the good reason.  Whether I am right would be up to the court.  However - having it in your pocket whilst paying for filling the car on a journey to the river to fish is risky.  Official line below;

https://www.police.uk/pu/advice-crime-prevention/possession-of-weapons/

[Walker570]

ANY non locking folding knife is a menace but of course the numpties in Westminster probably have someone else cut their meat up for them like children.

The UK is littered with knives I have left after gralloching a deer, stuck knife in turf and forgot it, some of them where top quality fixed blades.

John just about sums it up.  The trick is not to put yourself in a position to be searched etc.

My first visit to Texas was interesting because a lot of folk their had consealed carry permits and my friend was one. We made a stop at the bank one day and he stopped abruptly as he walked to the door and came back to the car.... OOOps, better leave that here with you as he took a seriously nice little Berreta from a custom holster in the side of his cowboy boot.    As said leave a knife in the vehicle with your shooting/fising kit when visiting shops etc.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Walker570

[ph5172]

I am one of the victims of a non locking opinel. 
I had to cut my jumper to make an emergency bandage for my finger before cycling the 8 or so miles home!

The staff at the local hospital were impressed with the scalpel clean cut it had made as it closed down on my little finger and stoped at the bone. Ah the joys of being a young teenager in simpler times! 

[Rim Fire]

This is the opinel i lost last year after owning it for 10yrs it was bought in Zante 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Rim Fire

[Minky]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

The problem here is that - as others have said above - you need the locking version, as non locking can close on your fingers, but 'locking' is automatically putting it in the 'must have a good reason' category.  Blade length is to be less than 3 inches.

My own view is that fishing, many outdoor activities, gardening etc. are the good reason.  Whether I am right would be up to the court.  However - having it in your pocket whilst paying for filling the car on a journey to the river to fish is risky.  Official line below;

https://www.police.uk/pu/advice-crime-prevention/possession-of-weapons/

 

3 hours ago, Walker570 said:

ANY non locking folding knife is a menace but of course the numpties in Westminster probably have someone else cut their meat up for them like children.

The UK is littered with knives I have left after gralloching a deer, stuck knife in turf and forgot it, some of them where top quality fixed blades.

John just about sums it up.  The trick is not to put yourself in a position to be searched etc.

My first visit to Texas was interesting because a lot of folk their had consealed carry permits and my friend was one. We made a stop at the bank one day and he stopped abruptly as he walked to the door and came back to the car.... OOOps, better leave that here with you as he took a seriously nice little Berreta from a custom holster in the side of his cowboy boot.    As said leave a knife in the vehicle with your shooting/fising kit when visiting shops etc.

Any locking knife can be classed as an offensive weapon  BUT the blade mustn't be more than 3" long,,,, BUT .... AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT BIT.  when locked the handle is added to the blade length.  This effectively means that no locking knife is legal.  I.E..  1 inch blade ÷ 2inch handle =3inch knife.   There was an old boy who went out for a picnic with his Mrs.   In the glove box was an Opinel to cut the apples.  They had a small RTA and the first place plod went was the glove box.  Found the knife and the old boy was done for carrying an offensive weapon..!!  The old boy told plod the reason.... N ahh. Your done matey.  If it's for picnic it should be in the boot with the  picnic stuff.  No reason your booked.!!!  Points make prizes !!  Bad police PR.  The next time plod needs information the old boy will look the other way.  Own goal plod.

Another silly one.  Gunshop was selling some sort of cartridge knife.  Bloke bought one and went into a town pub.  Whilst there a couple of random blokes started fighting one another.  Plod called,,,  everyone searched.  Knife found in mate's pocket.  Your nicked ....  certs revoked,, great..  The disturbance was nothing to do with this bloke who stopped in for a drink on the way home from buying the new knife in the gunshop,  Plod could have exercise a bit of common in both cases.  Both bloke got a record and plod scored 2 own goals.!!! Very clever.

As written above ... The trick is not to put yourself in a position to be searched etc.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Minky

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Minky said:

AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT BIT.  when locked the handle is added to the blade length.

I don't believe that is so.  The CJA wording is “It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches.” [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]

ANY locking knife (of any length) does require the "lawful authority or good reason".

Edited May 15, 2022 by JohnfromUK

[Blackpowder]

Thanks to all for the replies I am looking at some of the more brightly coloured Opinels.   It was about 200m yards  from where I last used it to when it was discovered missing, steps were retraced and only one person met, not easy to spot as herbage is now well grown beside the paths.

 

Blackpowder

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Blackpowder said:

Thanks to all for the replies I am looking at some of the more brightly coloured Opinels.   It was about 200m yards  from where I last used it to when it was discovered missing, steps were retraced and only one person met, not easy to spot as herbage is now well grown beside the paths.

 

Blackpowder

Can you borrow a metal detector?

[benbobailey]

16 hours ago, ditchman said:

there are 3 types of opinal

stainless steel

locking ring

no locking ring

the smaller ones tend to be unlockable.........and quite honestly they are bloody dangerous to the user...

There is also carbon blade opinels, regards

[ditchman]

7 minutes ago, benbobailey said:

There is also carbon blade opinels, regards

quite right.....and inmy opinion the best steel

[Blackpowder]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Can you borrow a metal detector?

Yes thought about that but the travel costs would buy more than one knife, its a good idea thank you.

 

Blackpowder.

 

[benbobailey]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

quite right.....and inmy opinion the best steel

Although the carbon blade may be better edge wise etc, I prefer the stainless. Simply for the non rust properties. Regards

[Walker570]

3 hours ago, Blackpowder said:

Thanks to all for the replies I am looking at some of the more brightly coloured Opinels.   It was about 200m yards  from where I last used it to when it was discovered missing, steps were retraced and only one person met, not easy to spot as herbage is now well grown beside the paths.

 

Blackpowder

Metal detector?

[bigroomboy]

8 hours ago, Walker570 said:

ANY non locking folding knife is a menace but of course the numpties in Westminster probably have someone else cut their meat up for them like children.

The UK is littered with knives I have left after gralloching a deer, stuck knife in turf and forgot it, some of them where top quality fixed blades.

John just about sums it up.  The trick is not to put yourself in a position to be searched etc.

My first visit to Texas was interesting because a lot of folk their had consealed carry permits and my friend was one. We made a stop at the bank one day and he stopped abruptly as he walked to the door and came back to the car.... OOOps, better leave that here with you as he took a seriously nice little Berreta from a custom holster in the side of his cowboy boot.    As said leave a knife in the vehicle with your shooting/fising kit when visiting shops etc.

I agree on the danger of non locking knives but the svord peasant is a clever example of solving the problem. Very good knives at good price.

[Acerforestry]

Doubtless this has been discussed numerous times before, but if you follow UK knife law to the letter any "bushcraft" knife will potentially then land you in court. This is ludicrous, if someone is mad enough to want to stab someone a screwdriver, table knife or pointed stick can do as much damage, it just smacks of the increasing levels of control placed upon us by people who clearly are not thinking too much about the subject. If common sense can't be applied to context, (ie, a deer hunter with a fixed 6 inch blade as opposed to an 18 year old from Peckham with same thing), this country's laws are  more bonkers now than ever

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Acerforestry said:

Doubtless this has been discussed numerous times before, but if you follow UK knife law to the letter any "bushcraft" knife will potentially then land you in court. This is ludicrous, if someone is mad enough to want to stab someone a screwdriver, table knife or pointed stick can do as much damage, it just smacks of the increasing levels of control placed upon us by people who clearly are not thinking too much about the subject. If common sense can't be applied to context, (ie, a deer hunter with a fixed 6 inch blade as opposed to an 18 year old from Peckham with same thing), this country's laws are  more bonkers now than ever

Whilst I entirely agree with your sentiments, it only needs an over enthusiastic Police (need to meet totally artificial 'targets') for things to go horribly wrong.  As license holders we have even more to lose. 

I used to carry a tiny (1" blade) locking knife on my keyring - and a Leatherman when out dog walking, shooting, gardening etc.  Just a minor slip up of forgetting to take it out of my pocket could have caused serious problems, so I know rarely carry a 'knife' at all and have a blade-less Leatherman (Rebar EDC) which is supposed to be OK. 

I have what amounts to a phobia about non locked folding knives having had a near miss accident in the past with the original (non locking) bladed Leatherman.  Fortunately, it was only a screwdriver blade that folder on my fingers so not much blood ......... but the lesson was learned.

[Acerforestry]

Yes, I understand certainly that if you are holding firearm and shotgun certs the last thing anyone wants is over zealous old bill picking up on something. But seriously, what a stupid situation. Did anyone explain to the courts before they made these rulings that non locking for example, is dangerous

Edited May 15, 2022 by Acerforestry

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Acerforestry said:

But seriously, what a stupid situation, did anyone explain to the courts before they made these rulings that non locking is dangerous

I couldn't agree more. 

It is the civil servants who draft the laws on Government 'wishes', Ministers/cabinet who place the drafts before Parliament, who vote on them and put them into actual law once voted through, and the Courts only apply them as placed into law.

I imagine the civil servants who draft these laws are not 'sportsmen, country dwellers etc.' and I doubt many MPs actually read the proposed laws, but just follow the 'party line'.

[bigroomboy]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I couldn't agree more. 

It is the civil servants who draft the laws on Government 'wishes', Ministers/cabinet who place the drafts before Parliament, who vote on them and put them into actual law once voted through, and the Courts only apply them as placed into law.

I imagine the civil servants who draft these laws are not 'sportsmen, country dwellers etc.' and I doubt many MPs actually read the proposed laws, but just follow the 'party line'.

The law is actually perfectly sensible. It doesn't stop you doing anything and remember the same law applies to knitting needles, scissors and screwdrivers. The issue is that it relies on the police officer  to interpret it. Unfortunately the world has changed and a police officers view on what is an acceptable reason has also changed. Strange that you never hear of people being done for accidentally having their knitting needles in public though.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, bigroomboy said:

and remember the same law applies to knitting needles, scissors and screwdrivers.

Sorry, but I will have to disagree - having a law designed to combat knife crime that 'legally' includes knitting needles is not in my view 'perfectly sensible' - nor is having to rely on a police officer's interpretation of a law to avoid a potentially very serious (up to 4 years and unlimited fine) criminal charge.   Police officers are not lawyers and apply (what should be clear) laws.  Courts, Judges and the legal processes interpret them.

I agree it has been left to the officer to be pragmatic, but in my view - that is not a perfectly sensible law, but a poor law passing the buck as it will inevitably be interpreted differently by officers with different personal views - and that is wrong.  It leaves the way open to grudges, bribery, favouritism etc.

[Acerforestry]

I couldn't agree more- and when I look at the legal carry no.5 Opinel above this pretty much confirms that -  my fairly sizeable hand will dwarf that handle and make it impractical to hold. We are one of a very limited number of countries with laws like this