Tig or mig

[roadkill]

25 years ago I did my apprenticeship in welding and fabrication, I continued this trade for a few years until I moved into aviation and have been there ever since... I would like to start playing around and making a few different projects.. I would like to make things like the picture attached and wonder what kind of welding unit would be better... in my days it was all gas, mig and stick welding.   I now see that tig is quite popular so really unsure what unit to purchase...

 

Cheers Jamie 

 

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, Mig all the way, much less hassle than Tig , 06 wire and you can hire argon,  argon mix cylinders, C02 ok but I always used a heated guage , if you see these artist making their show pieces with scrap item there most using Mig, anti spatter spray will stop the shroud and tips from clogging up, a 90/110 amp would do but 140 will do any larger projects, farm work ? Spend on a good make that you can get spares, most cheap MIGs have tinny earth clamps so buy a professional one, up to 160 Amp digital mig should go on 13amp plug, mines 160 amp on a 13 amp plug, good luck and keeps us posted on your progress👍 

[ditchman]

for small stuff like that go for a small mig...with gas..(i dont like gas less wire)

use 0.5mm wire

TIG is just going to be too awkward for tight spaces..........will give a better weld but you arnt doing anything structerual so use MIG

[roadkill]

Cheers both, any recommendations on a mig unit? Just looked on ebay and it's like a mine field 

[Free range Rob]

I use a sealey 160 mig and it’s spot on, between that and the inverter I can do everything from tacking sills to putting up grain stores.

[oldypigeonpopper]

27 minutes ago, roadkill said:

Cheers both, any recommendations on a mig unit? Just looked on ebay and it's like a mine field 

Hello, all depends what you want to pay, Sealy have a few nice units , mines like a small suitcase size and can go to .8 wire, mind you I've seen Lidl sell MIGs with 3 year warranty, Parker brand, they had a Plasma cutter a few weeks ago, £150 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by oldypigeonpopper

[Eaf70]

It really is all relative to what you want to produce. Heavy structural work is MIG al the way as is car bodies, general light/med fabs etc but if you working on thin sheet, intricate items or stainless steel then it's TIG. You will need gas and regulators, filler wires of one description or another for both. As you will be aware MIG is a LOT easier than TIG but the finished weld is not as neat !! 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, times have changed since my day Jamie, oil cooled arc welders then in the 1970s mig welders the size of a small mini, well not quite, 4 ft high 2 ft X 2 ft, 

Edited May 18, 2022 by oldypigeonpopper

[Rob85]

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, times have changed since my day Jamie, oil cooled arc welders then in the 1970s mig welders the size of a small mini, well not quite, 4 ft high 2 ft X 2 ft, 

I love the oil cooled stick welders, pretty much 100% duty cycle with high OCV. Can run them all day without having to let them cool down. Theres a lot to be said for the simplicity of using a stick welder, have a look on YouTube and see the stuff the Indians and Pakistanis do with them when it comes to repairing their jingly trucks in the back of beyond. A now much maligned but very versatile machine.

[oldypigeonpopper]

6 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

I love the oil cooled stick welders, pretty much 100% duty cycle with high OCV. Can run them all day without having to let them cool down. Theres a lot to be said for the simplicity of using a stick welder, have a look on YouTube and see the stuff the Indians and Pakistanis do with them when it comes to repairing their jingly trucks in the back of beyond. A now much maligned but very versatile machine.

Hello, yes but they do not have the digital amp control like the modern MIGs, mine was a pickhill bantam , heavy and like above you cannot get such accurate amps, in India they use recon junk welders same as Thailand 

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, yes but they do not have the digital amp control like the modern MIGs, mine was a pickhill bantam , heavy and like above you cannot get such accurate amps, in India they use recon junk welders same as Thailand 

?  Meanwhile back to today in the decadent west: Welding is, as you know, one of those ‘lifetime to master’ skills, like shooting.   But TIG is more akin to precision bench rest rifle shooting, MIG more shotgun.

However, in those 25 years you've been out of the game have absolutely changed MIG, in the commercial environment at least.  Spray transfer, flux core*, pulse…there’s a long list of technologies that have fundamentally changed the process.  Jobs that would’ve in the past been reserved exclusively for stick at one end, or TiG at another, are now being done with MiG, only much faster, with a higher NDE pass rate.

At a DIY/hobby level, that has translated down to good, affordable machines that don’t have huge transformers that will reliably do thin sheet upto about 6mm (and more in multiple passes).  Get an inverter machine, the R-tech or GYS basic MIGs get good reviews (I’ve got a mid-range GYS).  All machines you buy these days should be capable of stick too, but don’t get suckered into a ‘combi’ machine that can do TiG as well, they are invariably compromised.  Avoid the MachineMart Clarke hobby things, over priced, still reliant on last-century technology, and use the cheapest, nastiest wire feeds.

If you want to learn TiG, a whole world of fun awaits, but there’s a substantial investment in kit too, as if you’re going to do it, may as well do it properly with an AC/DC setup.  Will let you do various aluminium alloys.

*I am NOT talking about the rubbish, DIY-grade flux core sold as an alternative to using protective gas.

[rovercoupe]

I have been running a gys 160a mig for a few years now and it’s had a fair amount of wire through it and I cannot fault it so far, not the cheapest but not silly money and at least they apparently own the Chinese factory and not just outsourcing the work to the lowest bidder for the low to mid range units. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

4 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

?  Meanwhile back to today in the decadent west: Welding is, as you know, one of those ‘lifetime to master’ skills, like shooting.   But TIG is more akin to precision bench rest rifle shooting, MIG more shotgun.

However, in those 25 years you've been out of the game have absolutely changed MIG, in the commercial environment at least.  Spray transfer, flux core*, pulse…there’s a long list of technologies that have fundamentally changed the process.  Jobs that would’ve in the past been reserved exclusively for stick at one end, or TiG at another, are now being done with MiG, only much faster, with a higher NDE pass rate.

At a DIY/hobby level, that has translated down to good, affordable machines that don’t have huge transformers that will reliably do thin sheet upto about 6mm (and more in multiple passes).  Get an inverter machine, the R-tech or GYS basic MIGs get good reviews (I’ve got a mid-range GYS).  All machines you buy these days should be capable of stick too, but don’t get suckered into a ‘combi’ machine that can do TiG as well, they are invariably compromised.  Avoid the MachineMart Clarke hobby things, over priced, still reliant on last-century technology, and use the cheapest, nastiest wire feeds.

If you want to learn TiG, a whole world of fun awaits, but there’s a substantial investment in kit too, as if you’re going to do it, may as well do it properly with an AC/DC setup.  Will let you do various aluminium alloys.

*I am NOT talking about the rubbish, DIY-grade flux core sold as an alternative to using protective gas.

Hello, you writing this as though I am the one that needs advice🤔, as it happens I've never been out the game, we have a R Tech stick welder, on the farm and not long purchased a professional MIG welder unit run on Argon, not forgetting my little hobby digital stick welder, I was TIG welding years ago but we have no need for one , I just gave my opinion to roadkill that a MIG welder would be my choice to the type of welding required as what is shown in photo, 

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, you writing this as though I am the one that needs advice🤔, as it happens I've never been out the game, we have a R Tech stick welder, on the farm and not long purchased a professional MIG welder unit run on Argon, not forgetting my little hobby digital stick welder, I was TIG welding years ago but we have no need for one , I just gave my opinion to roadkill that a MIG welder would be my choice to the type of welding required as what is shown in photo, 

Don't take his reply to heart Gordon.  He has no manners , and speaks to everyone that way mate.👍

[ditchman]

what i will say is that regardless what mig you get LEARN HOW TO MAINTAIN AND KEEP IT CLEAN.........migs attchact dust and it gets everywhere.....the line needs to be blown out regular the tips need cleaning and renewing and the serations in the feed roller need cleaning...usually there are 2 sets of serations one for thick wire and one for thin wire....if you maintain it properly everything else will follow...you know when it is working properly when it sounds like frying bacon...

[udderlyoffroad]

13 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, you writing this as though I am the one that needs advice🤔, as it happens I've never been out the game

I was addressing my remarks to the OP, what has changed in MiG in the professional environment since his apprenticeship, and how that technology has 'trickled down' to the more DIY / Farm machines. Hence in the 'in those 25 years have absolutely changed MIG', per his original post. 

And I agree MiG is where I would start for craft-y things like that.  TiG would be an expensive, precision-sledgehammer, to crack a nut.

Apologies if that wasn't clear.

11 hours ago, ditchman said:

you know when it is working properly when it sounds like frying bacon...

And if it smells like frying bacon, stop, you're on fire.

[oldypigeonpopper]

11 hours ago, ditchman said:

what i will say is that regardless what mig you get LEARN HOW TO MAINTAIN AND KEEP IT CLEAN.........migs attchact dust and it gets everywhere.....the line needs to be blown out regular the tips need cleaning and renewing and the serations in the feed roller need cleaning...usually there are 2 sets of serations one for thick wire and one for thin wire....if you maintain it properly everything else will follow...you know when it is working properly when it sounds like frying bacon...

Hello, I like that analogy Simon , frying bacon 👍 as it happens that's just what I said to the farmers son when we set up the new mig, after a few test pieces he was doing some good runs, goes to show it's not really that difficult to learn, 

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I like that analogy Simon , frying bacon 👍 as it happens that's just what I said to the farmers son when we set up the new mig, after a few test pieces he was doing some good runs, goes to show it's not really that difficult to learn, 

when doing a run with mig ...you push it....when doing a run with mma you pull it...

[markyboy07]

I was taught.... If it has slag you drag

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

And if it smells like frying bacon, stop, you're on fire.

I know that feeling. I was welding in the garage and thought it was getting a bit warm. Lifted my welding mask to find I had set my sweatshirt on fire. It burned a big hole in the top and singed my skin. The previous time, I lifted the mask to find the bench on fire.

[ph5172]

What about these little spot type welders I see on the Chinese channels. Like a pen creates a bright flash and metal is joined

[udderlyoffroad]

On 20/05/2022 at 18:30, ph5172 said:

What about these little spot type welders I see on the Chinese channels. Like a pen creates a bright flash and metal is joined

Different application though; they're the ones that weld the little strips of nickel to Li-ion cells to create battery packs.  Not sure they'd be much cop on steel.  But maybe you're looking at different vids to me?

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 17/05/2022 at 22:26, roadkill said:

25 years ago I did my apprenticeship in welding and fabrication, I continued this trade for a few years until I moved into aviation and have been there ever since... I would like to start playing around and making a few different projects.. I would like to make things like the picture attached and wonder what kind of welding unit would be better... in my days it was all gas, mig and stick welding.   I now see that tig is quite popular so really unsure what unit to purchase...

 

Cheers Jamie 

 

 

Hello, what did you decide on ??