Post covid research on damage to society, education etc

[Mungler]

This is a frightening read and it’s contents are as predicted or rather a predictable result of the ‘pandemic’.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-covid-cult-did-lasting-damage-to-our-kids
 

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, a lot of that would resonate in the UK, young people are finding little help for mental health issues from the pandemic , try getting a GP appointment , a referral to NHS mental health help, schools can only do so much, you can go private but mainly for more well off parents,  and children's charities who deal with mental health are being swamped for help, and the above includes the adult section, a family members looking for a CBT councilor ,  even professional councilors need help, one local charity loosing their funding and supports 15 above people and 1000s of local children, I just helped support with a charity raffle via Lloyds Bank in the Vale area, the charity Mind Oxfordshire are so busy , I don't see things getting better anytime soon,

Edited June 3, 2022 by oldypigeonpopper

[ditchman]

its been 2 1/2 years since i had an audiance with my doctor.......ive been dealt with a practice nurse everytime.........i need dentures and am on a waiting list it has been 2 years since joining the list and i dont expect to anyt time soon........i have to be very careful in what i eat........i would kill to be able to eat a rump steak and chips and mushrooms..................

the health "service" is a total disaster.............what annoys me is ive been paying in to it all my working life and hardly ever used it....now that im an old age pensioner and need maintenace........i recieve a service that just keeps me alive.............i feel seriously angry...if an MP ever came round to my house i would have him by his throat...

[12gauge82]

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/01/20/public-taken-for-a-ride-eu-yielded-to-commercial-interests-over-covid-19-vaccines-ngos-say

Looks like the EU have acted in the interest of money rather than people as usual. 

[Mungler]

Ooooh here we go, one for the mask nutters

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

 

"The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection."

 

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

 

[ordnance]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Ooooh here we go, one for the mask nutters

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

 

"The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection."

 

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

 

Authors' conclusions

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. 

[Mungler]

7 hours ago, ordnance said:

Authors' conclusions

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. 

Unsurprisingly you have been very selective in your editing and out of context presentation of a portion of the report’s conclusion - the report covers hand washing and face masks.

Here’s the whole conclusion :

 

 

Authors' conclusions

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children. 

There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection. Hand hygiene is likely to modestly reduce the burden of respiratory illness, and although this effect was also present when ILI and laboratory‐confirmed influenza were analysed separately, it was not found to be a significant difference for the latter two outcomes. Harms associated with physical interventions were under‐investigated. 

There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs. 
 

 

 

And this is the bit that jumped out for me:

“The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection”

 

 

[ordnance]

8 hours ago, Mungler said:

Unsurprisingly you have been very selective in your editing and out of context presentation of a portion of the report’s conclusion - the report covers hand washing and face masks.

Here’s the whole conclusion :

 

 

Authors' conclusions

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children. 

There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection. Hand hygiene is likely to modestly reduce the burden of respiratory illness, and although this effect was also present when ILI and laboratory‐confirmed influenza were analysed separately, it was not found to be a significant difference for the latter two outcomes. Harms associated with physical interventions were under‐investigated. 

There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs. 
 

 

 

And this is the bit that jumped out for me:

“The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection”

 

 

Thats the most relivant bit. 

Authors' conclusions

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. 

[Gordon R]

Mungler, you were the first, or amongst the first, to highlight the long term damage to the economy, education and a whole lot of other areas. I seem to recall your view was that the country should have just got on with it, whilst observing sensible measures.

Fast forward a couple of years - vindication.

[Mungler]

5 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Mungler, you were the first, or amongst the first, to highlight the long term damage to the economy, education and a whole lot of other areas. I seem to recall your view was that the country should have just got on with it, whilst observing sensible measures.

Fast forward a couple of years - vindication.

Thank you for that.

The damage is still unfolding and for what?

We should have a long hard look at Sage, the government response committees and the long list of telly loving rent-a-experts

 

[ordnance]

7 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Mungler, you were the first, or amongst the first, to highlight the long term damage to the economy, education and a whole lot of other areas. I seem to recall your view was that the country should have just got on with it, whilst observing sensible measures.

Fast forward a couple of years - vindication.

You don't need to be einstein to know that closing schools would damage education, and closing business and lockdowns would hurt the economy, all obvious to anyone with an IQ over 10. Also obvious to the goverment who decided rightly or wrongly it was a price worth paying for public health. 

[Scully]

13 minutes ago, ordnance said:

You don't need to be einstein to know that closing schools would damage education, and closing business and lockdowns would hurt the economy, all obvious to anyone with an IQ over 10. Also obvious to the goverment who decided rightly or wrongly it was a price worth paying for public health. 

Mmmm, but public health paid the price anyhow it would seem. 
I know hindsight is everything, but my OH conducts workshops in primary schools, where ( and this was stated as such on the BBC news ) Scarlett Fever, Hand Foot and Mouth  and Impetigo are now rife due to school lockdowns. 🤷‍♂️

[Mungler]

Oooh a bit more on the pointlessness of masks 

 

[tweedledee]

13 hours ago, Mungler said:

Oooh a bit more on the pointlessness of masks 

 

Anyone with half a brain would have known masks had no benefit..

[Rewulf]

On 03/02/2023 at 20:25, ordnance said:

the goverment who decided rightly or wrongly it was a price worth paying for public health

How's that working out these days? 

[discobob]

Meanwhile the Welsh Government has been putting out new adverts advising on wearing masks on public transport - I give up...

[12gauge82]

I've got some sanding to do later, I might hold a tennis racket in front of my face to stop myself inhailling dust 😂

[Bemused]

15 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I've got some sanding to do later, I might hold a tennis racket in front of my face to stop myself inhailling dust 😂

Don't be silly! Everyone knows that badminton rackets are better much better for that.

[ordnance]

On 07/02/2023 at 00:17, Rewulf said:

How's that working out these days? 

I said rightly or wrongly, I did not comment on If it was right or wrong. You can decide for yourself and I will do the same.

18 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I've got some sanding to do later, I might hold a tennis racket in front of my face to stop myself inhailling dust 😂

Ok, I personally would use the recommended mask for dust. 

On 06/02/2023 at 22:06, tweedledee said:

Anyone with half a brain would have known masks had no benefit..

Anyone with half a brain would know masks can have some benefit. The best you can do is show the view of dr Ellie Cannon and its gospel 

Mask wearing in community settings reduces SARS-CoV-2 ...

https://www.pnas.org › doi › pnas.2119266119

 

by G Leech · 2022 · Cited by 15 — SignificanceWe resolve conflicting results regarding mask wearing against COVID-19. Most previous work focused on mask mandates; we study the effect of mask ...

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America

Peer-reviewed journal

 

 

Description

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America is a peer-reviewed multidisciplinary scientific journal. It is the official journal of the National Academy of Sciences, published since 1915, and publishes original research, scientific reviews, commentaries, and letters.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by ordnance

[12gauge82]

6 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I said rightly or wrongly, I did not comment on If it was right or wrong. You can decide for yourself and I will do the same.

Ok, I personally would use the recommended mask for dust. 

Anyone with half a brain would know masks can have some benefit.

Thanks for the useful advice, I might try that. 

Here's some good advice in return. 

Never trust a dog to watch a man's dinner. 

I hope you find that useful 👍

[ordnance]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Thanks for the useful advice, I might try that. 

Here's some good advice in return. 

Never trust a dog to watch a man's dinner. 

I hope you find that useful 👍

No problem 

On 06/02/2023 at 08:50, Mungler said:

Oooh a bit more on the pointlessness of masks 

 

Seriously you post one doctors view as if its gospel 

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

Seriously you post one doctors view as if its gospel 

 

But it's not just the view of one doctor is it?

 

[tweedledee]

5 hours ago, ordnance said:

I said rightly or wrongly, I did not comment on If it was right or wrong. You can decide for yourself and I will do the same.

Ok, I personally would use the recommended mask for dust. 

Anyone with half a brain would know masks can have some benefit. The best you can do is show the view of dr Ellie Cannon and its gospel 

Mask wearing in community settings reduces SARS-CoV-2 ...

https://www.pnas.org › doi › pnas.2119266119

 

by G Leech · 2022 · Cited by 15 — SignificanceWe resolve conflicting results regarding mask wearing against COVID-19. Most previous work focused on mask mandates; we study the effect of mask ...

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America

Peer-reviewed journal

 

 

Description

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America is a peer-reviewed multidisciplinary scientific journal. It is the official journal of the National Academy of Sciences, published since 1915, and publishes original research, scientific reviews, commentaries, and letters.

 

 

You work away and use your masks if ya want...worked through the whole sham ,no mask and never washed my hands,never done me a bit of harm... 

[ordnance]

On 08/02/2023 at 15:55, tweedledee said:

You work away and use your masks if ya want...worked through the whole sham ,no mask and never washed my hands,never done me a bit of harm... 

Good for you.   Personally i do wash my hands all the time after the toliet and before eating etc, I would hate to see yours if you haven't washed them for over 3 years. 

On 08/02/2023 at 13:49, Mungler said:

 

But it's not just the view of one doctor is it?

 

The post i replied to, was the view of one doctor. ( Dr Ellie Cannon )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by ordnance

[12gauge82]

On 09/02/2023 at 17:28, ordnance said:

Good for you.   Personally i do wash my hands all the time after the toliet and before eating etc, I would hate to see yours if you haven't washed them for over 3 years. 

The post i replied to, was the view of one doctor. ( Dr Ellie Cannon )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure he means he washed them no more frequently than normal.