Listing SP30 on renewal application

[harpoonlouis]

Renewal time again.

Was planning to use the online application for a change so need to have all details sorted as you cant save the form apparently.

I have three SP30 to my name. One 2016, one sometime before that and one 20 plus years ago. I have nothing in my records to tell me when the first two happened. I have my old paper record that is blank from Nov 2010 and nothing else.

The renewal specifically asks for month and year of all offences. I have nothing.

The title of that Section of the Notes is ambiguous

 "Details about any offences or written cautions ( including speeding but not parking offences or fixed penalty notices)"

I thought SP30 were Fixed Penalty Notices.

At my last renewal I had excluded the SP30s and the FEO took a little pleasure in asking if I had really disclosed everything in my application. He had information on them and expected them to be included.

What do folks think I can/should do in the circumstances?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Either call your FEO or guess at the dates.

At least you will have attempted to disclose what they already know.

They are looking for honesty.

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, harpoonlouis said:

At my last renewal I had excluded the SP30s and the FEO took a little pleasure in asking if I had really disclosed everything in my application. He had information on them and expected them to be included.

The older form didnt  ask for fixed penalties to be put down , but most erred on the side of caution and did anyway.
The newer one does ask for 'speeding offences'
I generally took it to mean anything new from the time of your last renewal/grant , so you have nothing 'new' to divulge since 2016 ? so that would mean youve not committed any offences since last renewal.
Like Tightchoke says , they already know anyway , its just a ploy to see if you try and omit relevant data, for the purposes of honesty, so just put down as much as you remember.

[harpoonlouis]

Anyone know if there is a notes section on Nottinghamshires online application form to put stuff like this in?

Thanks for the replies

 

[enfieldspares]

 

Quote

I generally took it to mean anything new from the time of your last renewal/grant , so you have nothing 'new' to divulge since 2016 ? so that would mean youve not committed any offences since last renewal.

NO, NO, NO! There's a number of You Tube videos of people who are claiming that they had an SGC renewed and the revoked for as, they claim, the sole and single reason they'd ONLY put down speeding convictions since renewal. That may not be the truth as to why the SGC was revoked but that's what's being alleged.

My advice is go online and get an ACRO report on yourself. For if the police don't know the dates of your speeding convictions it is reasonable not to expect you to. An ACRO report is free. 

https://www.gov.uk/copy-of-police-records

I did this with my renewal and sent the paper copy of the ACRO to my Firearms Licensing Team. With my GP input. Both by Recorded Delivery. On my application I put down that I had two SP30 convictions and where they took place but could not remember the dates.

Edited August 8, 2022 by enfieldspares

[TIGHTCHOKE]

13 minutes ago, harpoonlouis said:

Anyone know if there is a notes section on Nottinghamshires online application form to put stuff like this in?

Thanks for the replies

 

Start here;

https://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/ar/applyregister/fao/af/apply-firearm-shotgun-explosives-certificate/

[Rewulf]

19 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

NO, NO, NO! There's a number of You Tube videos of people who are claiming that they had an SGC renewed and the revoked for as, they claim, the sole and single reason they'd ONLY put down speeding convictions since renewal. That may not be the truth as to why the SGC was revoked but that's what's being alleged.

I actually asked the FEO , and he said any 'new' convictions, he advised writing 'Nothing since last renewal/grant' in the convictions box, and thats what Ive put for every renewal and variation since.
The older form did say 'excluding fixed penalties' as a speeding offence dealt with via FPN wasnt a conviction (technically)
The only way you are getting revoked , is if you deliberately try to withhold information, which is pointless , as they already know, most of the time, they give you the opportunity to 'remember' and if you persist, the trouble starts.

 

24 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

My advice is go online and get an ACRO report on yourself. For if the police don't know the dates of your speeding convictions it is reasonable not to expect you to. An ACRO report is free. 

These arent free, or they werent when I got mine 8 years ago , £10 I think , but worth getting if youre unsure, they do take a couple of months though.

[Gordon R]

Should be free. The £10 was scrapped a couple of years ago.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Should be free. The £10 was scrapped a couple of years ago.

[harpoonlouis]

Thanks for the ACRO suggestion. Have requested one while I wait up o 21 days for GP report.

It's clear from the replies that the process isn't 100% clear. Thanks

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

The only way you are getting revoked , is if you deliberately try to withhold information, which is pointless , as they already know, most of the time, they give you the opportunity to 'remember' and if you persist, the trouble starts.

Yes. I think that there's more not said on these "well known" You Tube videos than is said. 

[Marka11]

I put my Sp30’s down couldn’t remember exact months/years but I added a note saying they might not be 100%  correct it’s difficult to remember something that happened over 40 yrs ago. Like some other posters have said they know what you have done in the past just put it down even if dates may be wrong you have had a go and made an attempt not trying too hide stuff 

 

[hod]

9 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Either call your FEO or guess at the dates.

At least you will have attempted to disclose what they already know.

They are looking for honesty.

This all the way. It’s about your integrity, not your ability to remember precise dates of historical minor incidents. 

[HantsRob]

On 08/08/2022 at 12:58, Rewulf said:

The older form did say 'excluding fixed penalties' as a speeding offence dealt with via FPN wasnt a conviction (technically)

The endorseable FPN (eFPN) is a disposal method in lieu of going for prosecution in court. As the officer would have said in the roadside verbal NIP "I am reporting you for the consideration of the question of prosecuting you for the offence of speeding". It is followed not by the "when" caution but "now" caution. "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now (rather than when questioned) something you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given as evidence".

Of course, you may instead have had a conditional offer if caught by a camera. 

Regardless, the disposal is an alternative to court, and you had an option to be heard in court.

 

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Regardless, the disposal is an alternative to court, and you had an option to be heard in court.

Thank you , I understood that to be the case, I just wasnt sure it counted as a conviction or not ?
The older form asked for convictions , but said dont include FPNs.

[30-6]

I put mine down as approximately, they can check. I also always put down my offence of ' urinating on a public highway to the annoyance of passers by '. 

[Scully]

I have a driving offence from 1977, which is on my license so can put down the exact date etc. 😀

I also have an offence ( taking a rowing boat without the owners consent! We were caught returning it! 😄) from about 1983 ish, and I don’t even mention it as I have none since last renewal, which is my default setting. It’s never questioned for whatever reason. 

[HantsRob]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Thank you , I understood that to be the case, I just wasnt sure it counted as a conviction or not ?
The older form asked for convictions , but said dont include FPNs.

FPNs and eFPNs admit guilt/liability but is a disposal instead of court. It is not a magistrates conviction, however it is still disclosable on PNC as if it were. That’s to say sp30 disposed of via eFPN is still guilty of sp30, just not via a court conviction. 
 

if in doubt, disclose. Disclosure shows integrity and honesty, however I always add in something like ‘this is to the best of my knowledge. Any omission is not a deliberate act, and in some cases added more detail that may not be relevant to ensure transparency’. 
 

just give no reason for a withdrawal due to integrity issues (deliberate or otherwise). 

[Rewulf]

[sportsbob]

On 08/08/2022 at 14:21, Gordon R said:

Should be free. The £10 was scrapped a couple of years ago.

It is now free, as a result of this thread I have just requested one out of interest.

Edited August 12, 2022 by sportsbob
typo