Vaccine Effectiveness?

[Lloyd90]

21 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Quite simply there are too many of us on this planet, and Mother Nature is trying to sort it out. Things like this will keep happening until we address overpopulation.

And unfortunately it is the old and weak who will pay the ultimate price.

If we need (theoretically) to have a massive reduction in popular the old (no longer contributing to society) and the weak (people with genetic diseases, conditions etc) are the ones you (once again, theoretically) want to die off. 
 

From a population reduction perspective Covid was ideal, did almost nothing to you healthy working population, killed off loads of old people in care homes, nursing homes, hospitals, higher chance to kill off morbidly obese people, smokers, people with asthma, diabetes etc. 

If you simply HAD TO kill off a large chunk of the population; those with genetic conditions they would otherwise pass on to younger generations are probably the best ones to go. 
 

 

 

Then suddenly everyone panicked and decided that we have to have a vaccine to try and stop it all. 
 

People loved to moan about overpopulation but don’t want their family to be the ones that die off. 

[islandgun]

7 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/01/14/1072504127/fact-check-the-theory-that-sars-cov-2-is-becoming-milder?t=1661206835677

"There's this story that we're going to have variants that are progressively less severe," says Dr. Roby Bhattacharyya, who's an infectious disease specialist at Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School.

But that's completely untrue...."

 

The article is a little long in the tooth by now but as far as I'm aware is still current in terms of what the experts are saying.

interesting read, thanks

 

23 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Quite simply there are too many of us on this planet, and Mother Nature is trying to sort it out. Things like this will keep happening until we address overpopulation.

And unfortunately it is the old and weak who will pay the ultimate price.

Which is as it should be

[Robden]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Quite simply there are too many of us on this planet, and Mother Nature is trying to sort it out. Things like this will keep happening until we address overpopulation.

And unfortunately it is the old and weak who will pay the ultimate price.

Agree 100%.  

[serrac]

3 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Quite simply there are too many of us on this planet, and Mother Nature is trying to sort it out. Things like this will keep happening until we address overpopulation.

And unfortunately it is the old and weak who will pay the ultimate price.

I'm not convinced Mother Nature is the main player here - it wasn't Mother Nature who was loading up the syringe drivers.

https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZVuGJZmyRy7JbOU9BRAB43maWvWfKJ1wNk#returl=https%3A//e1.pcloud.link/publink/show%3Fcode%3DXZVuGJZmyRy7JbOU9BRAB43maWvWfKJ1wNk&page=login

[amateur]

3 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Quite simply there are too many of us on this planet, and Mother Nature is trying to sort it out. Things like this will keep happening until we address overpopulation.

And unfortunately it is the old and weak who will pay the ultimate price.

It is a shame that no-one has developed a virus to target politicians and the work-shy.

[Rewulf]

14 hours ago, ordnance said:

Is that your view / opinion or have you evidence ?  

The EVIDENCE is certainly out there to confirm my view/opinion.
Its simple evolution , have a read up on it , and decide for yourself WHY the evolution of Virus's should mean they get progressively less lethal, then compound that with unnatural interference (vaccines)
Or you could just read Jim Neals link ?

Where else in nature does the weaker variant dominate ?

14 hours ago, ordnance said:

Not everything just when you post things as factual with no evidence to back it up, then again that's most of your posts. 

 

First off , I didnt post them as factual, re read and try and understand.

 

'That maybe so , but attempts to artificially combat different strains may produced a strain both resistant AND more lethal, evolution can throw up all kinds of wild cards.'

Are you actually saying, that meddling with virus's and bacterium CANNOT produce something more resistant and lethal ?
Are you saying that evolution DOES NOT occasionally throw up wild cards ?

Because the evidence to prove both is easily accessible .

[Penelope]

21 hours ago, ordnance said:

Who said 95 percent won't get it they have the vaccine?

This useful (to some) idiot for one.

 

 

6 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Quite simply there are too many of us on this planet, and Mother Nature is trying to sort it out. Things like this will keep happening until we address overpopulation.

And unfortunately it is the old and weak who will pay the ultimate price.

What hand did Mother Nature have in helping it escape from a Chinese Lab?

[mel b3]

We had covid in 2020 ( both unvacinated at the time), and it gave us a bit of a kicking . I still get shortness of breath , and palpitations,  but theyre not as bad now , and I've sort of learned to work around them. My Mrs has had covid again (after three jabs), but it was just a bit of a cold this time . As far as I'm aware , I haven’t had it again.

We get a doorstep test every month ( a Oxford ons thing) , and last month my blood test came back that I still have a very high level of antibodies.  I don't know if that's because I've either had it again , or, because I'm a binman , and exposed to allsorts , so my immune system just has to work hard all the time.

[Newbie to this]

4 hours ago, Penelope said:

What hand did Mother Nature have in helping it escape from a Chinese Lab?

She may have had a helping hand this time, but this is not her only attempt, and the attempts seem to be getting more frequent.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Newbie to this

[ordnance]

7 hours ago, Rewulf said:

The EVIDENCE is certainly out there to confirm my view/opinion.
Its simple evolution , have a read up on it , and decide for yourself WHY the evolution of Virus's should mean they get progressively less lethal, then compound that with unnatural interference (vaccines)
Or you could just read Jim Neals link ?

Where else in nature does the weaker variant dominate ?

 

First off , I didnt post them as factual, re read and try and understand.

 

'That maybe so , but attempts to artificially combat different strains may produced a strain both resistant AND more lethal, evolution can throw up all kinds of wild cards.'

Are you actually saying, that meddling with virus's and bacterium CANNOT produce something more resistant and lethal ?
Are you saying that evolution DOES NOT occasionally throw up wild cards ?

Because the evidence to prove both is easily accessible .

So they should not have developed the Smallpox and Polio vaccines, and just let them run their course 🤔

[ordnance]

8 hours ago, Penelope said:

This useful (to some) idiot for one.

 

 

What hand did Mother Nature have in helping it escape from a Chinese Lab?

Joe Biden who a lot of the time doesn't know where he is, I was thinking more scientists immunologists etc.  

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

So they should not have developed the Smallpox and Polio vaccines, and just let them run their course 🤔

Oh dear! 

Is that what I said? Is that what I meant.? 

Give the trolling a rest man! 

[ordnance]

30 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Oh dear! 

Is that what I said? Is that what I meant.? 

Give the trolling a rest man! 

What you said bellow, the logic of that is vaccines are unnatural interference. That's why i asked the question ( So they should not have developed the Smallpox and Polio vaccines, and just let them run their course ) 

Quote

The EVIDENCE is certainly out there to confirm my view/opinion.
Its simple evolution , have a read up on it , and decide for yourself WHY the evolution of Virus's should mean they get progressively less lethal, then compound that with unnatural interference (vaccines)
Or you could just read Jim Neals link ?

 

[bornfree]

My missus has had 3 jabs I've had none we both got COVID this march it lasted about a week for both of us. So what the jabs actually do I've no idea. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

What you said bellow, the logic of that is vaccines are unnatural interference

Of course they're unnatural interference,  but you've inferred I've said it's a bad thing per se. 

I said there was a possibility {and there is}  that vaccines COULD affect the evolutionary path of a virus,  for good or bad {as far as we're concerned} this is inarguable! 

Omicron is a perfect example,  the virus evolved into a vaccine resistant strain,  was this natural,  or a result of the vaccines? 

[ordnance]

56 minutes ago, bornfree said:

My missus has had 3 jabs I've had none we both got COVID this march it lasted about a week for both of us. So what the jabs actually do I've no idea. 

The vaccine in its current form will not stop people from getting the virus, but can help prevent serious illness. People with or without the vaccine can have none or minor symptom's, and everything in between. People are free to take it or leave it, their choice. 

 

Almost 90% of patients admitted to Intensive Care Units in ...

https://www.bartshealth.nhs.uk › news › almost-90-of-p...

 

9 Sept 2021 — Almost 90% of patients admitted to Intensive Care Units in north east London are not fully vaccinated.

[ordnance]

44 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Of course they're unnatural interference,  but you've inferred I've said it's a bad thing per se. 

I said there was a possibility {and there is}  that vaccines COULD affect the evolutionary path of a virus,  for good or bad {as far as we're concerned} this is inarguable! 

Omicron is a perfect example,  the virus evolved into a vaccine resistant strain,  was this natural,  or a result of the vaccines? 

All true, the vaccine could also cause mutations that make Covid less dangerous, the flu ( Spanish Flu ) mutated to be more deadly without any vaccines. Its also inarguable that vaccines near eradicated Smallpox and Polio.  

[serrac]

12 hours ago, ordnance said:

Its also inarguable that vaccines near eradicated Smallpox and Polio.  

Inarguable? Really?

Well here's a few "args"  to be going on with:

Dr. Bernard Greenberg’s 1962 Congressional Testimony on Polio

In testimonies given at US Congressional Hearings in 1962, Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head of the Department of Biostatistics of the University of North Carolina School of Public Health, testified that not only did polio increase substantially (50 percent from 1957 to 1958 and 80 percent from 1958 to 1959) after the introduction of mass vaccination programs, but statistics were manipulated to give the impression of the effectiveness of the Salk vaccine. Dr. Greenberg gave the following reasons why it appeared that polio decreased after the vaccine was given:

* Redefinition of an epidemic: More cases were required to refer to polio as epidemic after the introduction of the Salk vaccine (from 20 per 100,000 to 35 per 100,000 per year) ·

* Redefinition of the disease: In order to qualify for classification as paralytic poliomyelitis, the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for at least 60 days after the onset of the disease. Prior to 1954 the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for only 24 hours. Laboratory confirmation and the presence of residual paralysis were not required. After 1954, residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days and again 50 to 70 days after the onset of the disease. “This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer lasting paralysis,” testified Dr. Greenberg. ·

* Mislabeling: After the introduction of the Salk vaccine, “Cocksackie virus and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis, whereas prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic polio,” explained Dr. Greenberg.


https://greenmedinfo.com/blog/unsuccessful-modern-medical-miracles-fraud-behind-polio-and-smallpox-vaccines
https://greenmedinfo.com/blog/unsuccessful-modern-medical-miracles-fraud-behind-polio-and-smallpox-vaccines-0

[Penelope]

15 hours ago, ordnance said:

Joe Biden who a lot of the time doesn't know where he is, I was thinking more scientists immunologists etc.  

But that is the 'Leader of the Free World' who would of had the best up to date information, relaying the message to the public at large. 😆

[Rewulf]

[ordnance]

4 hours ago, serrac said:

Inarguable? Really?

Well here's a few "args"  to be going on with:

Dr. Bernard Greenberg’s 1962 Congressional Testimony on Polio

In testimonies given at US Congressional Hearings in 1962, Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head of the Department of Biostatistics of the University of North Carolina School of Public Health, testified that not only did polio increase substantially (50 percent from 1957 to 1958 and 80 percent from 1958 to 1959) after the introduction of mass vaccination programs, but statistics were manipulated to give the impression of the effectiveness of the Salk vaccine. Dr. Greenberg gave the following reasons why it appeared that polio decreased after the vaccine was given:

* Redefinition of an epidemic: More cases were required to refer to polio as epidemic after the introduction of the Salk vaccine (from 20 per 100,000 to 35 per 100,000 per year) ·

* Redefinition of the disease: In order to qualify for classification as paralytic poliomyelitis, the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for at least 60 days after the onset of the disease. Prior to 1954 the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for only 24 hours. Laboratory confirmation and the presence of residual paralysis were not required. After 1954, residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days and again 50 to 70 days after the onset of the disease. “This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer lasting paralysis,” testified Dr. Greenberg. ·

* Mislabeling: After the introduction of the Salk vaccine, “Cocksackie virus and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis, whereas prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic polio,” explained Dr. Greenberg.


https://greenmedinfo.com/blog/unsuccessful-modern-medical-miracles-fraud-behind-polio-and-smallpox-vaccines
https://greenmedinfo.com/blog/unsuccessful-modern-medical-miracles-fraud-behind-polio-and-smallpox-vaccines-0

When I said inarguable, I do know if I posted the world is round someone would find a individual that said it was flat, you have proved that.

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Not sure what that has to do with vaccines.

[Rewulf]

37 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Not sure what that has to do with vaccines.

Its called humour , try it sometime 😜

[ordnance]

54 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Its called humour , try it sometime 😜

I see 😂 don't give up your day job, just more humor 🙂

[serrac]

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

When I said inarguable, I do know if I posted the world is round someone would find a individual that said it was flat, you have proved that.

Why not treat us all to a devastating take-down of the FACTS presented in these articles?
Oh right, you can't, because they are facts not arguments so they stand as evidence you made a false statement. 
Own it for once.
 

[Jim Neal]

On 23/08/2022 at 22:47, bornfree said:

My missus has had 3 jabs I've had none we both got COVID this march it lasted about a week for both of us. So what the jabs actually do I've no idea. 

Just one possible theory on that:  you may well both have had the Omicron variant, which by all accounts is not a big deal to 99.99% of people in terms of symptoms/lethality.

If it had been Delta it may have been a different story and the effect of the jabs may have made more difference?  As I said, just one possible theory.