MK38 Fit and New Gun Options

[Petay]

hoping to pick the collective brain.

 

I have been shooting a couple of years casually and I have a mk38 gd5, only had it a month or so and initially really liked it. previously I had a 690 as a first gun which was trade in for a Blaser F3 which I never gelled with.

 

My issue has come now I've started to transition to gun down shooting more. Firstly I find the MK38 really hard to get up into the shoulder without catching my clothes despite the LOP as measured from trigger being spot on for my measurements. I suspect its partly down to the shape of the pad but what's really weird is when I set up the other half 12g 682 Gold E to the same LOP it comes up so much better..... 

What I am wondering now is does the Beretta come up better due to the shape of the pistol grip and stock making the gun feel shorter vs the Mk38?? Does that seem feasible or am talking nonsense? 

I'm considering a 694 now as I've read it feels a lot like the Gold E (also like the idea of a palm swell). Also wondering if an Ultra XS Pro is worth looking at as I do like the browning / Miroku action and the Ultra seems to have more target orientated stock swap even if it does lack a palm swell. 

[Westley]

Having had an XS Pro, which lasted only 4 months I switched to a ProSport,  with which I shot well. After a dose of Covid last April, I had been struggling with the weight of the 9lbs. ProSport.  On a 14 stand 100 birder, I would start off well, but by the time I was reaching the last 4/5 stands, I was dropping more targets than I had missed on the rest of the course. The gun felt so heavy. Anyway I have swapped to an MK38 but I am now struggling with the lack of weight, it is almost a pound lighter. I too have suffered the 'sticking' pad problem and have fitted a Kick-eeze that I already had. I have coated the back of that pad with clear nail polish to prevent it from sticking or snagging my clothing. I plan to persevere with the gun for now, but could well buy another ProSport and take out a gym subscription  !

[Johnny English]

I believe it to be the type of butt pad that is on the gun maybe the problem as I have the same.

I have a beretta dt11 with the micro pore butt pad that slides into position really well, I then got an mkgame 20 bore with the pachmeyr butt pad and it kept sticking grabbing on my vest as I tend to slide my gun into position.

Answer for me was to stick with a beretta gun with the micro pore butt pad or fit a recoil systems green pad or x pad to the miroku. The green pad/ x pad also slide pretty well because of the leatherette finish and don't grab on your clothes. In the end I put the miroku up for sale and just stuck with the 12 bore dt11.

[Scully]

Do you ‘see-saw’ your gun as you mount? Good technique means you should keep the gun more or less parallel to the ground and use both hands to ‘push’ the muzzles slightly towards your target as you bring the gun up, bringing the butt BACK ( instead of UP ) into your shoulder. It’s good technique and requires practise ( like everything else ) but it prevents the butt snagging in baggy clothing worn in colder weather. 

A smooth consistent and correct mount takes lots of repetitive practise to build muscle memory, but it is imperative to good shooting. 

[Westley]

I entirely agree with this, but I can categorically say that I do NOT mismount my gun. It is most certainly the current pads that Browning are using. They are not only very 'sticky' but are completely straight with no curvature at all. I just coated the heel of the pad with nail varnish, just don't let the Wife find out  !

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, people have different techniques but I have always pushed the gun more forward and bring back to shoulder rather than the see saw method to catch your clothes  much like Scully mentioned,

[Petay]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

I entirely agree with this, but I can categorically say that I do NOT mismount my gun. It is most certainly the current pads that Browning are using. They are not only very 'sticky' but are completely straight with no curvature at all. I just coated the heel of the pad with nail varnish, just don't let the Wife find out  !

 

33 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, people have different techniques but I have always pushed the gun more forward and bring back to shoulder rather than the see saw method to catch your clothes  much like Scully mentioned,

 

My technique will 100% be letting me down at times but I would not saw I am deliberately trying to seesaw the gun up. 

 

When using the missus gun I still push forward and up ensuring the off hand is also working but with the MK38 I have to really exaggerate that movement in order to get it up cleanly. I have also found I need to have my hand further back on the fore end which is not ideal for me.

My feeling is the tighter radius pistol grip of the Gold E means my hands sitting further forward resulting in a more natural forward movement as I come up....no scientific backing on this, just a theory.

[wymberley]

Gun fit/mount has one thing in common with choke - neither are a measurement but a performance. If one is not sure of the question, then getting the answer is not easy. Finding a good fitter/coach could well end up quicker and far less expensive than flirting with one gun after another.

[Gordon R]

I would look at changing the butt pad, for one with a hard plastic piece at the top, to prevent snagging. I have, in the past, wrapped the pad in insulation tape to make it slide, without snagging.

[matone]

Never been a fan of rubber pads but find the Inflex pads on the Browning Sporter One series very good for shape and lack of snagging on clothing.

Much prefer wood or a heel plate tho`.

[Westley]

7 hours ago, Petay said:

 

 

My technique will 100% be letting me down at times but I would not saw I am deliberately trying to seesaw the gun up. 

 

When using the missus gun I still push forward and up ensuring the off hand is also working but with the MK38 I have to really exaggerate that movement in order to get it up cleanly. I have also found I need to have my hand further back on the fore end which is not ideal for me.

My feeling is the tighter radius pistol grip of the Gold E means my hands sitting further forward resulting in a more natural forward movement as I come up....no scientific backing on this, just a theory.

The things you have quoted really do point to gunfit, and moreover a length of pull that is too long. They are more or less what I suffered on first getting the Prosport.  As the Gun only comes with 2 pads, the thinnest being 18mm. which gave a 14 3/4" lop. I fitted a 12mm Inflex pad. Not the best of fits, but did the job. Reducing the lop to 14 1/2" ish.

[Petay]

So paid a visit to the RFD today and had a feel of both the Ultra XS Pro and the 694. 

Did love the palm swell on the 694 but the XS mounted flatter and was more consistent in how I brought it up and mounted it. They both mounted better than the Miroku and the owner of the shop also said it seemed to be the pad on the mk38 causing the issue.

We discussed changing it for something slimmer and looking at adding some cast to try and stop my head rolling over the comb but given he was prepared to give me what I paid for the gun in part ex if I took something else I ended up changing it out for the XS pro... I know I like how the 525 action shoots and the palm swell wasn't a deal breaker for me. 

lesson booked in on Friday to get the gun set up. 

[Agriv8]

22 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, people have different techniques but I have always pushed the gun more forward and bring back to shoulder rather than the see saw method to catch your clothes  much like Scully mentioned,

I mainly shoot  gun  down

Always start with gun at the same ready position 

Head still slightly more forward than you think - your mounting gun to cheek ( not Cheek to stock )

Gun parallel ( not flicking barrels about)

Gun up to cheek then slightly back into shoulder. Stops heal snagging 

repeat in mirror many times unloaded gun of course repeat with your shooting jacket on !

when you think you have it repeat 5 times but mount with eyes shut when you open your eyes is the rib and bead in the right place - every time ? 
 

finally a lesson I learnt !!!! gun down needs you to be relaxed especially across your shoulders if you go into a stand un relaxed or miss you may tighten your shoulders up this can  drastically change your mount and swing !!

Agriv8

[Cosmicblue]

I have Kick-eeze pad fitted on my HPX Perazzi MX12 by Tim Greenwood and he added a smooth leather piece to the back of the pad which facilitates a smooth mount. 

As part of the process of having the stock re-fitted Tim altered the pitch of the stock which is hard to describe - its the angle of the stock butt beneath the Kick-eeze pad so that it fits squarely in one's shoulder.  Seeing an exquisite piece of walnut getting sliced by a band-saw is slightly eye watering - end result was worth it.     

[maxwell]

The pad on the MK38 is for trap shooting, I took mine off and have a Kick-eez pad, you can get the general purpose pad which is flat or the sporter pad which has the top/leading edge shaped so not snag when mounting, as for mounting I have found the MK38 balance spot on but it sounds like you need an adjustable comb to get the gun mount to suit you

[Westley]

I too mount my gun in the correct manner, NONE of my other 7 guns snag my clothing. I believe it is the Pachmyer pad that is the issue, BUT also stock length. I recently shot 50 bird Compak and my gun never caught my clothing once. However I did make a conscious effort to hold my left hand well back on the forend, backing my theory of too long a stock.

[Petay]

Little update on this one 

 

had a lesson last week with the coach I used a couple of years ago when first learning.

Whilst my technique was clearly prt of the issue it does seem changing the the MK38 out for an Ultra XS pro was the right thing to do. 
 

comb height heeded adjusting and some cast was also added. I have the thinnest pad on at present although suspect I could have a thicker one in summer months now I’ve started to perfect my technique. 
 

either way the MK38 gd5 was a stunning gun for the most money but the ultra xs pro is the better fit thus better tool for the job. 

[Gunman]

On 11/09/2022 at 22:58, Petay said:

hoping to pick the collective brain.

 

I have been shooting a couple of years casually and I have a mk38 gd5, only had it a month or so and initially really liked it. previously I had a 690 as a first gun which was trade in for a Blaser F3 which I never gelled with.

 

My issue has come now I've started to transition to gun down shooting more. Firstly I find the MK38 really hard to get up into the shoulder without catching my clothes despite the LOP as measured from trigger being spot on for my measurements. I suspect its partly down to the shape of the pad but what's really weird is when I set up the other half 12g 682 Gold E to the same LOP it comes up so much better..... 

What I am wondering now is does the Beretta come up better due to the shape of the pistol grip and stock making the gun feel shorter vs the Mk38?? Does that seem feasible or am talking nonsense? 

I'm considering a 694 now as I've read it feels a lot like the Gold E (also like the idea of a palm swell). Also wondering if an Ultra XS Pro is worth looking at as I do like the browning / Miroku action and the Ultra seems to have more target orientated stock swap even if it does lack a palm swell. 

I have come across this problem in the past and there could be several reasons for it ,but with out actually seeing you its all guess work  .This is your third gun so suggests to me that the problem is that you have never settled to any of them . Yes , a comparative inexperienced shooter will need time and some help and yes you can very easily start with the wrong gun .

Experience suggests that it is your mounting  may cause of your troubles and while I agree a lot of pads do catch it can be over come by altering your mounting ,so I suggest before you think about changing guns , again , you have a word with a gun fitter who can look at you and asse if any alterations need be made or how you can alter your mounting which may well solve your problems .

A couple of points about gun fit .

Some guns , even of the same make and model do feel better . There are phycological reasons [ that sounds right up its self ] that you feel a change is needed as you have no confidence in the gun and are convinced that the gun is the problem , if this is so no matter what you do it will never be right . Dont be to concerned about LOP as long as the gun fits and is comfortable   . Shape of the grip may affect you dependent on the size of your hand and relative lengths of your lower and upper arms  .

 

 

Seems I'm a bit late in my comments .I must have been typing as you posted . Ah well best of luck with the new one .

Graham.

[Petay]

7 minutes ago, Gunman said:

I have come across this problem in the past and there could be several reasons for it ,but with out actually seeing you its all guess work  .This is your third gun so suggests to me that the problem is that you have never settled to any of them . Yes , a comparative inexperienced shooter will need time and some help and yes you can very easily start with the wrong gun .

Experience suggests that it is your mounting  may cause of your troubles and while I agree a lot of pads do catch it can be over come by altering your mounting ,so I suggest before you think about changing guns , again , you have a word with a gun fitter who can look at you and asse if any alterations need be made or how you can alter your mounting which may well solve your problems .

A couple of points about gun fit .

Some guns , even of the same make and model do feel better . There are phycological reasons [ that sounds right up its self ] that you feel a change is needed as you have no confidence in the gun and are convinced that the gun is the problem , if this is so no matter what you do it will never be right . Dont be to concerned about LOP as long as the gun fits and is comfortable   . Shape of the grip may affect you dependent on the size of your hand and relative lengths of your lower and upper arms  .

 

 

Seems I'm a bit late in my comments .I must have been typing as you posted . Ah well best of luck with the new one .

Graham.

Thanks for the input Graham. 
 

on the guns I’ve owned, reality is the first Beretta I had was sold in purely down to curiosity to shoot something else and me having a wad of cash burning a hole in my pocket! The Blaser F3 was the wrong choice for me or should I say the non adjustable stocked version was the wrong choice for me. I never got on with it and it genuinely put me off wanting to shoot anymore. 
 

the Miroku I bought based on looks and liking how the 525 handled, I actually looked at an ultra XS pro at the time and ultimately was swayed by the prettier look of the MK38 which was stupid. 
 

in terms of issue with my mount technique it was actually reasonably quick and easy to diagnose and resolve. 
 

issue 1 - I was starting with the barrels to high this not leaving me much room to move them up as I mounted hence I got the see saw motion. 
 

issue 2 - speed, I was trying to mount to quickly and this was down to not understanding the need to adjust my hood point from where I’d usually hold if shooting gun up. 
 

issue 3 - as I was mounting I was actually bringing my head down to the gun - a hangover of years of target air rifle shooting. We actually had to lower the comb to get me flatter on the rib but once this was done and with a very conscious effort on my pet to not move my head it all started to fit a bit better. 
 

I actually tried mounting with a Miroku after the lesson and did find it easier although the Pacmar pad design still snagged occasionally compared to the flat Inflex of design on the XS pro. 
 

 Now it’s all about spending 20 mins day practicing my mount. 

[Westley]

I have just fitted an Inflex on my MK38. Seems alright when dry mounting,  but only shooting it will tell. 

[Gunman]

On 20/09/2022 at 11:38, Petay said:

Thanks for the input Graham. 
 

on the guns I’ve owned, reality is the first Beretta I had was sold in purely down to curiosity to shoot something else and me having a wad of cash burning a hole in my pocket! The Blaser F3 was the wrong choice for me or should I say the non adjustable stocked version was the wrong choice for me. I never got on with it and it genuinely put me off wanting to shoot anymore. 
 

the Miroku I bought based on looks and liking how the 525 handled, I actually looked at an ultra XS pro at the time and ultimately was swayed by the prettier look of the MK38 which was stupid. 
 

in terms of issue with my mount technique it was actually reasonably quick and easy to diagnose and resolve. 
 

issue 1 - I was starting with the barrels to high this not leaving me much room to move them up as I mounted hence I got the see saw motion. 
 

issue 2 - speed, I was trying to mount to quickly and this was down to not understanding the need to adjust my hood point from where I’d usually hold if shooting gun up. 
 

issue 3 - as I was mounting I was actually bringing my head down to the gun - a hangover of years of target air rifle shooting. We actually had to lower the comb to get me flatter on the rib but once this was done and with a very conscious effort on my pet to not move my head it all started to fit a bit better. 
 

I actually tried mounting with a Miroku after the lesson and did find it easier although the Pacmar pad design still snagged occasionally compared to the flat Inflex of design on the XS pro. 
 

 Now it’s all about spending 20 mins day practicing my mount. 

Practice practice practice . I used to tell people to do this until they could mount and point to a fixed point consistantly , It didn't matter if the point was not where they wanted it as long as it was consistent . That could be a matter of gun fit which can be adjusted to bring you on to the point you want .I also suggest that when the gun is mounted and gripped  correctly , you should be able to swing while holding with one hand only , thats the left and the right hands .This will take time and needs to have the muscle strength to do so but it means that you have full control of the gun and not the gun controlling you . 

 

Good luck , Graham .