Scully Posted October 2, 2022 Report Share Posted October 2, 2022 Mate has just bought a Winchester SX3, which is only proofed for standard steel! Why? ALL nitro proofed guns are capable of shooting standard, so why not just go the whole hog and proof for HP? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 2, 2022 Report Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) are they getting rid of old stock..?.........they might have thousands in the wharehouses....and will keep selling them as long as they sell... then when they have got rid of them they will buildthe new generation which people will then upgrade to ... what do you reckon ? Edited October 2, 2022 by ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted October 2, 2022 Report Share Posted October 2, 2022 If i remember right they had loads of trouble with them cycling cartridges. As for steel if that's what it's to be used for then why buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2022 49 minutes ago, mellors said: If i remember right they had loads of trouble with them cycling cartridges. As for steel if that's what it's to be used for then why buy it. Not sure I’m following you there. I don’t know, they seem to be a popular gun, but I don’t think proofing has any effect on cycling capability. He bought it because he doesn’t get on with his Benelli, and steel will be what we’re all shooting within a year or so. I just wondered why any gun would be proofed for standard steel when all non-steel proofed guns are already capable of handling it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowchaser Posted October 2, 2022 Report Share Posted October 2, 2022 I used to own an SX3 Red Performance (for sporting clays) and I'm sure it was only proofed for standard steel. Still see a lot of brand new SX3's for sale despite the X4 being out for some time. I take it the X4's are proofed for HP Steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippermaj Posted October 2, 2022 Report Share Posted October 2, 2022 The 3.5 inch chamber sx3 is steel proof, surprised that the your mates isn’t. Is it a 3 inch chamber? Shadow chaser, just looked on guntrader and there were only 3 new sx3 for sale all 3 inch. Was one waterfowl model advertised but photos were of an sx4! Whee have you seen others advertised? May fancy the sx3 waterfowl if I can find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2022 15 minutes ago, flippermaj said: The 3.5 inch chamber sx3 is steel proof, surprised that the your mates isn’t. Is it a 3 inch chamber? Shadow chaser, just looked on guntrader and there were only 3 new sx3 for sale all 3 inch. Was one waterfowl model advertised but photos were of an sx4! Whee have you seen others advertised? May fancy the sx3 waterfowl if I can find one. It is steel proofed, but NOT HP steel proofed. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retromlc Posted October 3, 2022 Report Share Posted October 3, 2022 As far as I'm aware the only auto guns proofed for hp steel at full choke are Fabarm all others are only up to half choke, HP proofing is just for the extra pressure, all steel proofed guns I think that are multichoke are only up to 1/2 choke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted October 3, 2022 Report Share Posted October 3, 2022 14 hours ago, ditchman said: are they getting rid of old stock..?.........they might have thousands in the wharehouses....and will keep selling them as long as they sell... then when they have got rid of them they will buildthe new generation which people will then upgrade to ... what do you reckon ? I reckon you could have a career in marketing for any firm as you hit the nail on the head, sell up quick, produce new model, get punters to want new model.😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanMc Posted October 3, 2022 Report Share Posted October 3, 2022 I have a 2010 SX3 Wildfowl with 3.5" chambers, fleur de lys on the barrel, suggests HP steel proofed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 3, 2022 Report Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Scully said: which is only proofed for standard steel! It is my understanding (and you should obviously check with a gunsmith if in doubt) that there is only ONE steel proof - denoted by the Fleur de Lis mark. With Fleur de Lis you can shoot steel INCLUDING HP steel (within chamber length limits etc.). Note that since 2020 the marks don't include 'SUP' anymore - see attached link. https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1106151/Proofing.pdf Without Fleur de Lis, you can shoot standard steel within the chamber and load limits (as appropriate) and with various 'recommendations' such as choke less than 1/2, but should not shoot HP steel. Edited October 3, 2022 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 3, 2022 Report Share Posted October 3, 2022 39 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: It is my understanding (and you should obviously check with a gunsmith if in doubt) that there is only ONE steel proof - denoted by the Fleur de Lis mark. With Fleur de Lis you can shoot steel including HP steel (within chamber length limits etc.). Note that since 2020 the marks don't include 'SUP' anymore - see attached link. https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1106151/Proofing.pdf Without Fleur de Lis, you can shoot standard steel within the chqmber and load limits (as appropriate ) and with various 'recommendations' such as choke less than 1/2, but should not shoot HP steel. Apologies for a minor correction. Within the known limits you can shoot steel provided the gun is nitro proofed at a satisfactory level. For some unknown reason, after 40 odd years of its use there is still confusion about this. Some may have taken, "you can shoot steel including HP steel", as 'you need steel proof to shoot steel and then you can also shoot HP steel'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 3, 2022 Report Share Posted October 3, 2022 15 minutes ago, wymberley said: Apologies for a minor correction. No problem. 15 minutes ago, wymberley said: For some unknown reason, after 40 odd years of its use there is still confusion about this. I think the reasons are that the various 'experts' (the Proof Houses, Shooting Organisations, some gunsmiths are several magazine articles) etc. have given contradictory advice at times and there is no doubt that there have been examples of damage with steel, but then there always have been occasional failures even in pre steel days. Additionally, there have been various changes in the marks used in recent years. For a great many years the 'maximum working load' and chamber length were the ones to look for (e.g. 2 1/2 inch and 1 1/8 oz. was a standard 'game gun' proof). Then we went to pressure initially in tons per square inch, then went metric - which was in my view less intuitive than the load. A particular 'gripe' of mine is that the marks currently used by the Proof Houses are often small, badly struck, indistinct and hard to see. There was an example posted in a recent thread that was very hard to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 3, 2022 Report Share Posted October 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: No problem. I think the reasons are that the various 'experts' (the Proof Houses, Shooting Organisations, some gunsmiths are several magazine articles) etc. have given contradictory advice at times and there is no doubt that there have been examples of damage with steel, but then there always have been occasional failures even in pre steel days. Additionally, there have been various changes in the marks used in recent years. For a great many years the 'maximum working load' and chamber length were the ones to look for (e.g. 2 1/2 inch and 1 1/8 oz. was a standard 'game gun' proof). Then we went to pressure initially in tons per square inch, then went metric - which was in my view less intuitive than the load. A particular 'gripe' of mine is that the marks currently used by the Proof Houses are often small, badly struck, indistinct and hard to see. There was an example posted in a recent thread that was very hard to see. The change to proof from load and from Imperial to metric all at once was a tad traumatic. The 2020 system - provided you can read it - makes things easier I fancy. This should also phase out the Italian kgs (weight)/kgs/sqcm (pressure) confusion which we occasionally see on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted October 3, 2022 Report Share Posted October 3, 2022 As has been said by myself and others, this situation is a double-edged sword. In July of 2020 I picked up a bargain Benelli Montelfeltro, precisely because it was missing a Fleur-de-Lys. I’d have no issue running HP steel through it, and were that to become a regular occurrence I could always revert to my Hatsan, or pay for proofing if I was really worried. In the unlikely event it failed, I’d consider that a win for my personal safety and move on… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowchaser Posted October 4, 2022 Report Share Posted October 4, 2022 On 02/10/2022 at 20:42, flippermaj said: The 3.5 inch chamber sx3 is steel proof, surprised that the your mates isn’t. Is it a 3 inch chamber? Shadow chaser, just looked on guntrader and there were only 3 new sx3 for sale all 3 inch. Was one waterfowl model advertised but photos were of an sx4! Whee have you seen others advertised? May fancy the sx3 waterfowl if I can find one. Oops - another example of how quickly time passes and you don't realise. It's probably a good few years since I actually checked so by now things will have moved on. I'm the type of person who says something has only just happened - when in actual fact it was several years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.