Result!

[Scully]

Son of a mate in village has been shooting for a couple of seasons now, but with little if any success. 
He is 16 and has his own Kofs 20 bore, and has been growing increasingly frustrated and disappointed with his performance despite me trying my best with him on clays and a failure to connect with anything on driven game last season. 
A bloke in the village who has known his Dad and him much longer than I, had set up a comb raiser on his gun as he believed him to be looking over the top of his stock to the extent he was looking down the right hand side of the barrels. The comb raiser was a sponge one over which was pulled a sleeve to keep it in place, but as I have one fitted to my self loader I knew they were prone to move. 
As I didn’t want anyone to feel I was interfering I was reluctant to do so, which added to my frustration also, as I knew I could help. 
Anyhow, after mentoring him the other weekend on a driven day, with no results, he was totally fed up and in despair, and I fair felt for him so I was compelled to interfere. 
I sent off for a set of stiff compressed foam ( made in China of course ) comb raisers from a well known ‘South American’ website and earlier this week we had a comb fitting and gun fitting session. We started with the thinnest piece and I used insulation tape to lash the thing in place and got him to close his eyes, mount his gun at me and then open his right eye. Even before he opened his eye I knew we were getting somewhere as it was sat directly above and in line with the rib. Previously it had been looking down the right hand side of the barrels or couldn't be seen at all, meaning he was looking at the top lever. 

Now because the foam is stiff with no give, it means he can rest his cheek on it while keeping his head up straight. I showed him how to mount his gun correctly, and how to practise it, and took him back home. I told him that if he practised this for 5 minutes every night before his next driven day, I’d bet he’d start connecting. 
This was last Monday. As I couldn’t be there today he stood on his own, but I sent him a text this morning wishing him well and reminding him not to strangle the gun, to take his time, keep his head up straight and to come up through the bird nice and smoothly from behind and speed up that swing as he got to the bird and go through, and even though that bird would disappear from his view, he should keep swinging and his brain would tell him when to pull the trigger, just as I’d been telling him to do on previous times, and that as he was now looking down the rib I’d be very surprised if he failed to connect. 
Anyhow, I was having lunch with my son when I received a text from him saying he’d killed four birds and his Dad was there to see it! His Mam told me that he’d said if he didn’t shoot anything today he was giving up! 
When I saw him earlier tonight in the pub he was ecstatic and told me he’d killed five in total, including one which had beaten two other guns and he then killed with his first barrel! Good lad! Sorted.  🙂
 

[Newbie to this]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

Son of a mate in village has been shooting for a couple of seasons now, but with little if any success. 
He is 16 and has his own Kofs 20 bore, and has been growing increasingly frustrated and disappointed with his performance despite me trying my best with him on clays and a failure to connect with anything on driven game last season. 
A bloke in the village who has known his Dad and him much longer than I, had set up a comb raiser on his gun as he believed him to be looking over the top of his stock to the extent he was looking down the right hand side of the barrels. The comb raiser was a sponge one over which was pulled a sleeve to keep it in place, but as I have one fitted to my self loader I knew they were prone to move. 
As I didn’t want anyone to feel I was interfering I was reluctant to do so, which added to my frustration also, as I knew I could help. 
Anyhow, after mentoring him the other weekend on a driven day, with no results, he was totally fed up and in despair, and I fair felt for him so I was compelled to interfere. 
I sent off for a set of stiff compressed foam ( made in China of course ) comb raisers from a well known ‘South American’ website and earlier this week we had a comb fitting and gun fitting session. We started with the thinnest piece and I used insulation tape to lash the thing in place and got him to close his eyes, mount his gun at me and then open his right eye. Even before he opened his eye I knew we were getting somewhere as it was sat directly above and in line with the rib. Previously it had been looking down the right hand side of the barrels or couldn't be seen at all, meaning he was looking at the top lever. 

Now because the foam is stiff with no give, it means he can rest his cheek on it while keeping his head up straight. I showed him how to mount his gun correctly, and how to practise it, and took him back home. I told him that if he practised this for 5 minutes every night before his next driven day, I’d bet he’d start connecting. 
This was last Monday. As I couldn’t be there today he stood on his own, but I sent him a text this morning wishing him well and reminding him not to strangle the gun, to take his time, keep his head up straight and to come up through the bird nice and smoothly from behind and speed up that swing as he got to the bird and go through, and even though that bird would disappear from his view, he should keep swinging and his brain would tell him when to pull the trigger, just as I’d been telling him to do on previous times, and that as he was now looking down the rib I’d be very surprised if he failed to connect. 
Anyhow, I was having lunch with my son when I received a text from him saying he’d killed four birds and his Dad was there to see it! His Mam told me that he’d said if he didn’t shoot anything today he was giving up! 
When I saw him earlier tonight in the pub he was ecstatic and told me he’d killed five in total, including one which had beaten two other guns and he then killed with his first barrel! Good lad! Sorted.  🙂
 

Excellent, well done. Hopefully he will have many years shooting and maybe pass on some of the knowledge you have imparted.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Newbie to this

[billytheghillie]

What time do you want me down for my lessons?  Great coaching Scully, well done.

[Scully]

22 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Excellent, well done. Hopefully he will have many years shooting and maybe pass on some of the knowledge you have imparted.

Thanks. Yes, he’s as keen as mustard again now! 👍Good to see. 

7 minutes ago, billytheghillie said:

What time do you want me down for my lessons?  Great coaching Scully, well done.

🙂Thanks, but I’m no coach really. It’s just what I’ve learned over the years and what’s worked for me. 

[Ultrastu]

Awesome. 

It's so important  to get the eye and gun going in the same direction. We'll done .I bet his grin was a Mile wide . 

[London Best]

11 hours ago, Scully said:

 he’s as keen as mustard again now

How are you going to tell him that NOW is the time to give up, whilst he’s winning, before the wheels come off again? As they do from time to time with all of us!

Seriously, well done Sir. You must be very satisfied that you could help the lad.

[Scully]

11 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Awesome. 

It's so important  to get the eye and gun going in the same direction. We'll done .I bet his grin was a Mile wide . 

Thankyou. Yes, he was rather chuffed! 🙂

[Scully]

31 minutes ago, London Best said:

How are you going to tell him that NOW is the time to give up, whilst he’s winning, before the wheels come off again? As they do from time to time with all of us!

Seriously, well done Sir. You must be very satisfied that you could help the lad.

🙂Indeed! Have told him it won’t always be thus, and there’ll be frustrating days ahead where he’ll blame the gun he previously shot so well, he’s using the wrong cartridges and has in the wrong chokes, but it won’t be any of those, it’ll be him, so he needs to keep practicing that stance and mount…..correctly. 
Thankyou, very kind. Yes, I just really felt for him. The frustration caused by not knowing what you’re doing wrong can be very off putting. 
His younger brother uses that Baikel artillery piece in .410 I mentioned in a previous thread, and he just throws it in the air ( not literally! ) and kills birds now and then, then turns to his brother with that really annoying smile! 😄

Anyhow, he’s wanting a 28 bore now! Bank of Dad takes a hammering! 

 

[London Best]

59 minutes ago, Scully said:

His younger brother uses that Baikel artillery piece in .410 I mentioned in a previous thread,

 

The Baikal double .410 is truly a frightful thing!

To anyone with an appreciation of the .410 it is an insult to their intelligence to even show it to them.

[Walker570]

This just shows the importance of a) choosing a gun that fits or b) having one fitted.  Some of us aged shooters really never had this and had to learn the hard way. I have two guns that are fitted and the two 410s I have are identical and I chose them because they came up and felt right. I have others where after many years I have learned to adapt.

BUT It often takes someone like Scully to help initially and advise. Well done.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Walker570

[JohnfromUK]

That's a very good thing to have done.  It will now boost his confidence.  It gets dispiriting when nothing seems to come together.

When I was about 16 or 17 my godfather started me.  He was a very fine shot and very knowledgeable - and got me  gun (that I still have to this day) that fits well etc.  But unfortunately, although a superb shot himself, he was not a good coach.  The problem (I think) was he was a complete natural instinctive shot - and couldn't really understand that I wasn't!  He had no concept of lead and also favoured VERY light guns - the one he got me only weighs 6 1/4 lbs which he just mounted at the last minute and pulled the trigger - and hit (almost) every time. 

But once (after a long period and with different tuition) I got the idea and my confidence began to build things got better.  I am only a very average shot, but I can do well enough to enjoy it now.

[marsh man]

7 hours ago, Scully said:

🙂Indeed! Have told him it won’t always be thus, and there’ll be frustrating days ahead where he’ll blame the gun he previously shot so well, he’s using the wrong cartridges and has in the wrong chokes, but it won’t be any of those, it’ll be him, so he needs to keep practicing that stance and mount…..correctly. 
Thankyou, very kind. Yes, I just really felt for him. The frustration caused by not knowing what you’re doing wrong can be very off putting. 
His younger brother uses that Baikel artillery piece in .410 I mentioned in a previous thread, and he just throws it in the air ( not literally! ) and kills birds now and then, then turns to his brother with that really annoying smile! 😄

Anyhow, he’s wanting a 28 bore now! Bank of Dad takes a hammering! 

 

I agree he was a lucky young man to be told where he was going wrong and what needed to be added to the gun to make it more of a decent fit , this never happened to all the lads I grew up with and it certainly didn't happen to the older ones as well , if when buying a second hand gun , as very few new ones were bought , you tried it out dry so to speak and on occasions the owner might have let you take it out to have a shot or two , the gun wasn't going to alter so you had to adjust to the gun , if you managed to hit one or two things to begin with then your ( new ) gun would become a family member , yes there were times when it just didn't work out and in time it went back on the market , once you got used to it you would then use it for everything , from wildfowl to pigeons and anything else you went after , the chokes stayed where they were so you didn't have to keep altering then , once you could shoot reasonably straight you didn't blame the gun when you have a bad day you knew it was the owner and not the gun .

Now the odd time when I go and look at the local clay shoot I notice some of those who are shooting seem to have a different gun every time they turn up and guns seem to be the main topic of conservation , I dare say if some of the tidy shots I know or knew went to a couch to find out where they are shooting they would no doubt be told they are doing just about everything wrong in the book , but if they can hit a high percentage of what they are aiming at then what make the difference ?

[Walker570]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

That's a very good thing to have done.  It will now boost his confidence.  It gets dispiriting when nothing seems to come together.

When I was about 16 or 17 my godfather started me.  He was a very fine shot and very knowledgeable - and got me  gun (that I still have to this day) that fits well etc.  But unfortunately, although a superb shot himself, he was not a good coach.  The problem (I think) was he was a complete natural instinctive shot - and couldn't really understand that I wasn't!  He had no concept of lead and also favoured VERY light guns - the one he got me only weighs 6 1/4 lbs which he just mounted at the last minute and pulled the trigger - and hit (almost) every time. 

But once (after a long period and with different tuition) I got the idea and my confidence began to build things got better.  I am only a very average shot, but I can do well enough to enjoy it now.

Your Godfather sounds just like my Grandfather who was also an instinctive shot unable to fully mount the gun he shot with the butt almost on his waist line, but rarely missed.  I add to Scully's fine assistance....look at the bird.  It was a fashion some years ago and maybe still is, to have the index finger of the hand holding the forend pointing up the barrel. Now this wasn't stupid because if your brain instinctively points that finger where you want the shot to go , job done.  Point your finger at something in the room now and you will not 'AIM' along it. Your brain and eyes do the job for you.

[Scully]

12 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Your Godfather sounds just like my Grandfather who was also an instinctive shot unable to fully mount the gun he shot with the butt almost on his waist line, but rarely missed.  I add to Scully's fine assistance....look at the bird.  It was a fashion some years ago and maybe still is, to have the index finger of the hand holding the forend pointing up the barrel. Now this wasn't stupid because if your brain instinctively points that finger where you want the shot to go , job done.  Point your finger at something in the room now and you will not 'AIM' along it. Your brain and eyes do the job for you.

Good point. I have always shot with my index finger pointing along the forearm, and I also noticed it was something the young lad wasn’t doing; he was wrapping all his fingers around it to the extent his thumb was potentially obscuring the rib, ( which didn’t matter anyhow as he wasn’t looking down it! ) so I have told him to get into the habit of simply cupping the firearm and extending that finger to point at the bird rather than trying to aim the gun like a rifle. It takes practise as we all know. But if he does practise, it’ll become habit eventually. 

14 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

That's a very good thing to have done.  It will now boost his confidence.  It gets dispiriting when nothing seems to come together.

When I was about 16 or 17 my godfather started me.  He was a very fine shot and very knowledgeable - and got me  gun (that I still have to this day) that fits well etc.  But unfortunately, although a superb shot himself, he was not a good coach.  The problem (I think) was he was a complete natural instinctive shot - and couldn't really understand that I wasn't!  He had no concept of lead and also favoured VERY light guns - the one he got me only weighs 6 1/4 lbs which he just mounted at the last minute and pulled the trigger - and hit (almost) every time. 

But once (after a long period and with different tuition) I got the idea and my confidence began to build things got better.  I am only a very average shot, but I can do well enough to enjoy it now.

Thankyou. 

[Gordon R]

Nice that he is doing better, but also that you took the time and trouble to help. Not just a quick suggestion, but a thought out plan. Well done.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Nice that he is doing better, but also that you took the time and trouble to help. Not just a quick suggestion, but a thought out plan. Well done.

Thankyou. Was talking to his Dad this morning. He told me he didn’t put up his gun to the first crossing bird as he thought it out of range, but his Dad told him to ‘get at it!’ and he killed it first barrel! He told me if his grin had been any wider the top of his head would have dropped off! 
Am very pleased for him. 

[Newbie to this]

A mates son came clay shooting with us yesterday, he didn't start off too well and was looking downhearted, so we found a stand with relatively easy clays, close in and going almost dead straight away.

After a bit of practice he started to hit them, and ended up 4 for 10 (the last 4), and had a big smile on his face. He then started to get some more on different stands, especially the rabbits, and overall enjoyed the day 

I told my mate he needs to get him a lesson or 2 and get a gun that is more suited to him. 

He was using a 20 bore Hatsan escort junior, but it was too heavy for him and he didn't look comfortable when his cheek was on the stock. I think the stock was too short for him and possibly needed a cheek raiser or adjusting, but I'm no expert, being relatively new to the sport myself and no knowledge of semi-auto shotguns.

Hopefully his dad takes my advice, and we will have another shooter for years to come.

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Thankyou. Was talking to his Dad this morning. He told me he didn’t put up his gun to the first crossing bird as he thought it out of range, but his Dad told him to ‘get at it!’ and he killed it first barrel! He told me if his grin had been any wider the top of his head would have dropped off! 
Am very pleased for him. 

[Fellside]

On 12/11/2022 at 21:17, Scully said:

Son of a mate in village has been shooting for a couple of seasons now, but with little if any success. 
He is 16 and has his own Kofs 20 bore, and has been growing increasingly frustrated and disappointed with his performance despite me trying my best with him on clays and a failure to connect with anything on driven game last season. 
A bloke in the village who has known his Dad and him much longer than I, had set up a comb raiser on his gun as he believed him to be looking over the top of his stock to the extent he was looking down the right hand side of the barrels. The comb raiser was a sponge one over which was pulled a sleeve to keep it in place, but as I have one fitted to my self loader I knew they were prone to move. 
As I didn’t want anyone to feel I was interfering I was reluctant to do so, which added to my frustration also, as I knew I could help. 
Anyhow, after mentoring him the other weekend on a driven day, with no results, he was totally fed up and in despair, and I fair felt for him so I was compelled to interfere. 
I sent off for a set of stiff compressed foam ( made in China of course ) comb raisers from a well known ‘South American’ website and earlier this week we had a comb fitting and gun fitting session. We started with the thinnest piece and I used insulation tape to lash the thing in place and got him to close his eyes, mount his gun at me and then open his right eye. Even before he opened his eye I knew we were getting somewhere as it was sat directly above and in line with the rib. Previously it had been looking down the right hand side of the barrels or couldn't be seen at all, meaning he was looking at the top lever. 

Now because the foam is stiff with no give, it means he can rest his cheek on it while keeping his head up straight. I showed him how to mount his gun correctly, and how to practise it, and took him back home. I told him that if he practised this for 5 minutes every night before his next driven day, I’d bet he’d start connecting. 
This was last Monday. As I couldn’t be there today he stood on his own, but I sent him a text this morning wishing him well and reminding him not to strangle the gun, to take his time, keep his head up straight and to come up through the bird nice and smoothly from behind and speed up that swing as he got to the bird and go through, and even though that bird would disappear from his view, he should keep swinging and his brain would tell him when to pull the trigger, just as I’d been telling him to do on previous times, and that as he was now looking down the rib I’d be very surprised if he failed to connect. 
Anyhow, I was having lunch with my son when I received a text from him saying he’d killed four birds and his Dad was there to see it! His Mam told me that he’d said if he didn’t shoot anything today he was giving up! 
When I saw him earlier tonight in the pub he was ecstatic and told me he’d killed five in total, including one which had beaten two other guns and he then killed with his first barrel! Good lad! Sorted.  🙂
 

Well done Scully - good effort!

There’s a memory that boy will never forget. 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Fellside said:

Well done Scully - good effort!

There’s a memory that boy will never forget. 

Thankyou. 👍

3 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

A mates son came clay shooting with us yesterday, he didn't start off too well and was looking downhearted, so we found a stand with relatively easy clays, close in and going almost dead straight away.

After a bit of practice he started to hit them, and ended up 4 for 10 (the last 4), and had a big smile on his face. He then started to get some more on different stands, especially the rabbits, and overall enjoyed the day 

I told my mate he needs to get him a lesson or 2 and get a gun that is more suited to him. 

He was using a 20 bore Hatsan escort junior, but it was too heavy for him and he didn't look comfortable when his cheek was on the stock. I think the stock was too short for him and possibly needed a cheek raiser or adjusting, but I'm no expert, being relatively new to the sport myself and no knowledge of semi-auto shotguns.

Hopefully his dad takes my advice, and we will have another shooter for years to come.

Good for you.👍Get as many folk shooting as possible! 

My OH is keen to have a go on clays, as are another couple of women in the village, and when she returned from seeing an old friend this aft’ she said her friend wants to come with us when we go! 🙂

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Thankyou. 👍

Good for you.👍Get as many folk shooting as possible! 

My OH is keen to have a go on clays, as are another couple of women in the village, and when she returned from seeing an old friend this aft’ she said her friend wants to come with us when we go! 🙂

Excellent, hopefully they enjoy themselves and decide to take up the sport.

My misses has been with me a couple of times, but only using my 12 bore, which in no way at all fits her and probably kicks a bit too much. It's one of the reasons I'm thinking of getting a semi-auto so I can set it up for her, and easily change it for myself with the shims.

I believe this can be done anyway, like I said I have no knowledge of semi-auto really.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Newbie to this

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Excellent, hopefully they enjoy themselves and decide to take up the sport.

My misses has been with me a couple of times, but only using my 12 bore, which in no way at all fits her and probably kicks a bit too much. It's one of the reasons I'm thinking of getting a semi-auto so I can set it up for her, and easily cahnge it for myself with the shims.

I believe this can be done anyway, like I said I have no knowledge of semi-auto really.

Grand. Make sure if you’re buying sh, all the shims that should be with it are actually with it. 
My Benelli M1 Super 90 came with a complete set but I’ve still had to raise the comb a tad, and a ‘keeper mate has actually sold his Benelli M2 because he just couldn’t adjust the comb to suit and couldn’t hit anything with it. 
The kit I bought for the lad was only about 20 quid with postage. 

[Newbie to this]

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

Grand. Make sure if you’re buying sh, all the shims that should be with it are actually with it. 
My Benelli M1 Super 90 came with a complete set but I’ve still had to raise the comb a tad, and a ‘keeper mate has actually sold his Benelli M2 because he just couldn’t adjust the comb to suit and couldn’t hit anything with it. 
The kit I bought for the lad was only about 20 quid with postage.