War declared on second home owners

[old'un]

First Wales now England, double council tax for second homes in England, think there maybe a few properties coming onto the market…https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11446827/Tourist-hotspots-England-preparing-double-council-tax-second-home-owners.html

[owain]

Good

[243deer]

plenty of coastal villages in Norfolk and Suffolk where you will not see a light on in the houses nearest the coast this evening because the owners are nowhere to be seen. I would make it 100x not double 

Edited November 19, 2022 by 243deer

[Rupert]

More penalisation for those who do well in life.

[owain]

Just now, Rupert said:

More penalisation for those who do well in life.

So because you earn a lot of money, that gives you the right to decimate rural communities? 
 

[243deer]

3 minutes ago, Rupert said:

More penalisation for those who do well in life.

It is not always about whether you can afford things, we have a massive housing shortage at the moment with families being turfed out of tied hotel accommodation in order to house illegal immigrants. it should be far easier to have a social conscience and take positive action to help our community when you are well off.

[McSpredder]

What happens if Mr & Mrs Rich decide to live apart, one having a house in the city and the other living in a country cottage?   

[steve s×s]

21 minutes ago, owain said:

So because you earn a lot of money, that gives you the right to decimate rural communities? 
 

Let the mud slinging commence LOL

[owain]

4 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

What happens if Mr & Mrs Rich decide to live apart, one having a house in the city and the other living in a country cottage?   

Well that then is a house each and not a second home 😉

[owain]

4 minutes ago, steve s×s said:

Let the mud slinging commence LOL

It’s not really mud slinging, properties uninhabited for most of the year become a burden for the people who live in those areas year round. Bus routes become unviable, schools and doctors become under subscribed, leading to closure and longer journeys for the people who need them daily. Local shops close, because mr and mrs loads a money turning up 6 weeks out of the year doesn’t pay the bills. 
So yeah, if people are desperate to have country bolt hole let them pay for the disruption that it causes for the locals 👍

[steve s×s]

3 minutes ago, owain said:

It’s not really mud slinging, properties uninhabited for most of the year become a burden for the people who live in those areas year round. Bus routes become unviable, schools and doctors become under subscribed, leading to closure and longer journeys for the people who need them daily. Local shops close, because mr and mrs loads a money turning up 6 weeks out of the year doesn’t pay the bills. 
So yeah, if people are desperate to have country bolt hole let them pay for the disruption that it causes for the locals 👍

Just a bit of humour, I dare not put what I actually think 

[Jaymo]

42 minutes ago, 243deer said:

It is not always about whether you can afford things, we have a massive housing shortage at the moment with families being turfed out of tied hotel accommodation in order to house illegal immigrants. it should be far easier to have a social conscience and take positive action to help our community when you are well off.

But that leads to the question of ‘why bother to achieve?’

This then is accompanied by the ‘I don’t need to work as I get it all handed to me’ 

Before long there will be no ‘handouts’ if there isn’t the incentive to do well and no monies filling the pot to pay out. 

It’s my feeling that if these properties weren’t purchased, then most of these coastal towns would die out completely. 
I would hazard a guess that monies spent by these ‘part time’ occupiers, is far greater than what would otherwise be garnered by local businesses with their normal clientele. 

Just for owning a second property the thought is you should give it up to house others! Fine. In that case you don’t really need any savings or maybe two family cars, so I look forward to you all generously giving it all up! Don’t say that’s different! It all comes down to wishing for a total distribution of wealth as long as it suits.
But somehow I don’t think the uptake to do so,would be forthcoming. 
 

We’re so divisive when it comes to not having something that others do. It’s been address countless times in the not too distant past on here. 
 

For the record, I don’t own a second home, but I did and I worked bloody hard to achieve it. 
Imposing a double rate penalty if applied to say ‘drinkers’, would have shouts of ‘discrimination’ etc. 

I’m rambling but hey ho, better out than in….

Edited November 19, 2022 by Jaymo

[Jaymo]

Just now, Jaymo said:

But that leads to the question of ‘why bother to achieve?’

This then is accompanied by the ‘I don’t need to work as I get it all handed to me’ 

Before long there will be no ‘handouts’ if there isn’t the incentive to do well and no monies filling the pot to pay out. 

It’s my feeling that if these properties weren’t purchased, then most of these coastal towns would die out completely. 
I would hazard a guess that monies spent by these ‘part time’ occupiers, is far greater than what would otherwise be garnered by local businesses with their normal clientele. 

Just for owning a second property the thought is you should give it up to house others! Fine. In that case you don’t really need any savings or maybe two family cars, so I look forward to you all generously giving it all up! Don’t say that’s different! It all comes down to wishing for a total distribution of wealth as long as it suits.
But somehow I don’t think the uptake to do so,would be forthcoming. 
 

We’re so divisive when it comes to not having something that others do. It’s been address countless times in the not too distant past on here. 
 

For the record, I don’t own a second home, but I did and I worked bloody hard to achieve it. 
Imposing a double rate penalty if applied to say ‘drinkers’, would have shouts of ‘discrimination’ etc. 

I’m rambling but hey ho, between out than in….

PS. If you have the stats of a claimed ‘six weeks per year’ then pass on the link. 
PPS. By doubling the Council Tax won’t benefit the community. Bus routes will still fail as cars are prevalent, Tesco will still deliver ( maybe Waitrose 😉) and your Doctors surgery won’t be undersubscribed and close. The GP gets paid regardless of size ( although incentives are paid for each Patient). 
 

We live in a village community and none of the village schools around are undersubscribed, quite the opposite from the lack of places in the nearby City, meaning they have to travel to these outlying villages. 

[Rupert]

1 hour ago, owain said:

So because you earn a lot of money, that gives you the right to decimate rural communities? 
 

Houses are available at market rate  and will be bought at such.  There are no Rights its just commerce. If out of town monies are to be marginalised communities will suffer. Either you can afford to buy or you are a renter. Then landlords are buying.

56 minutes ago, 243deer said:

It is not always about whether you can afford things, we have a massive housing shortage at the moment with families being turfed out of tied hotel accommodation in order to house illegal immigrants. it should be far easier to have a social conscience and take positive action to help our community when you are well off.

Contraception is a conclusive answer in the long term

[Yellow Bear]

For the anti let brigade the other side of this is also valid .

We have friends who inherited (from her Mother who lived there) a cottage in (very) rural Wales, initially they tried to sell and had 2 years without a single viewing. They then offered to rent to locals at a peppercorn rent to maintain the property, again no takers after 12 months.   They then went to holiday let knowing if it went to auction they would get peanuts and that is what it would become.  5 more years, and covid restrictions,  down the road  and they get about 20 weeks a year and are even getting hit with double tax, even for the time the Welsh Government stopped them letting.  I would add that most of the time it has been a H/L it has remained on the market with just one tentative enquiry.

Now tell me they are taking a house away from "locals",  they just do not want to live in these remote properties.   I would imagine this happens in many places.

 

 

[owain]

15 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

PS. If you have the stats of a claimed ‘six weeks per year’ then pass on the link. 
PPS. By doubling the Council Tax won’t benefit the community. Bus routes will still fail as cars are prevalent, Tesco will still deliver ( maybe Waitrose 😉) and your Doctors surgery won’t be undersubscribed and close. The GP gets paid regardless of size ( although incentives are paid for each Patient). 
 

We live in a village community and none of the village schools around are undersubscribed, quite the opposite from the lack of places in the nearby City, meaning they have to travel to these outlying villages. 

Im not digging out stats for occupancy of second homes on a Saturday night, sorry 😂

Bus routes would be saved if more people actually lived in these areas, old and young people who can’t drive would use them, although I agree, the double council tax won’t save them. 
 

And perhaps in your local village community, less people would have to travel to attend outlying village schools if they could afford to live in the villages themselves. 

[Scully]

There is a row of former council houses in the village of Glenridding, just before you get to Patterdale. Like many Lakeland villages there is no work unless you’re a farmer, self employed or want to go into the tourism business, the latter of which is minimum wage for maximum hours. 
Back in the early ‘80’s I worked with a lad who told me everyone he knew of his age was moving out of Glenridding and similar villages to find jobs in towns such as Penrith and Kendal and even Carlisle and Lancaster because there was no choice if you wanted good money. They never went back, which meant those council houses and others like them were sold after being inherited, and apparently most went as second homes, or holiday homes as they’re more commonly known. 
It’s fine doubling the council tax but it won’t bring back locals to live in those houses if there’s no jobs, and there’s even less now around here than there was in the 1980’s. 
The BIG houses owned as second homes by the wealthy, will still be owned by those wealthy, and even those that are sold won’t be bought by the average local because they can’t afford them. 

 

[owain]

36 minutes ago, Scully said:

There is a row of former council houses in the village of Glenridding, just before you get to Patterdale. Like many Lakeland villages there is no work unless you’re a farmer, self employed or want to go into the tourism business, the latter of which is minimum wage for maximum hours. 
Back in the early ‘80’s I worked with a lad who told me everyone he knew of his age was moving out of Glenridding and similar villages to find jobs in towns such as Penrith and Kendal and even Carlisle and Lancaster because there was no choice if you wanted good money. They never went back, which meant those council houses and others like them were sold after being inherited, and apparently most went as second homes, or holiday homes as they’re more commonly known. 
It’s fine doubling the council tax but it won’t bring back locals to live in those houses if there’s no jobs, and there’s even less now around here than there was in the 1980’s. 
The BIG houses owned as second homes by the wealthy, will still be owned by those wealthy, and even those that are sold won’t be bought by the average local because they can’t afford them. 

 

The world is a very different place now though to what it was 40 years ago. Patterdale to Penrith would barely count as a commute these days, the internet means people can work from home easily. 
Houses are being built on green field sites all around Carlisle and Penrith, those council houses in glennriding would be decent commuter homes rather than holiday lets or second homes. 

54 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

For the anti let brigade the other side of this is also valid .

We have friends who inherited (from her Mother who lived there) a cottage in (very) rural Wales, initially they tried to sell and had 2 years without a single viewing. They then offered to rent to locals at a peppercorn rent to maintain the property, again no takers after 12 months.   They then went to holiday let knowing if it went to auction they would get peanuts and that is what it would become.  5 more years, and covid restrictions,  down the road  and they get about 20 weeks a year and are even getting hit with double tax, even for the time the Welsh Government stopped them letting.  I would add that most of the time it has been a H/L it has remained on the market with just one tentative enquiry.

Now tell me they are taking a house away from "locals",  they just do not want to live in these remote properties.   I would imagine this happens in many places.

 

 

Must have been asking too much for it. 

[Newbie to this]

Quite simply, we do not have a conservative government. They seem hell bent on punishing those with money, for the mistakes made by government.

[Yellow Bear]

12 minutes ago, owain said:

 

Must have been asking too much for it. 

If by too much you mean 20% below estate agent/government probate valuation, yes they were initially and then 30% with offers.   

[ditchman]

i think if you prevented people owning 2nd homes ....it wouldnt make any difference to the local people...because the prices of the houses in these little costal villages would still be beyond the reach of local wages......

when i grasped the property ladder i was on £14,750 quid a year...and a nice 3 bedroom house anywhere was about £30,000....i could borrow 100% providing my salary was 2.5 times the property price....

2nd homers have preserved these villages............as there isnt the economy to support wage earing families there anymore.......it does seem unfair ...but thats the way life/economy has panned out....dont forget the wheel turns......

[Weihrauch17]

4 hours ago, old'un said:

First Wales now England, double council tax for second homes in England, think there maybe a few properties coming onto the market…https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11446827/Tourist-hotspots-England-preparing-double-council-tax-second-home-owners.html

War declared on everyone in the UK unless you are Foreign.

[owain]

10 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

If by too much you mean 20% below estate agent/government probate valuation, yes they were initially and then 30% with offers.   

People will usually pay what something is worth. And that’s not necessarily what the estate agent says it is, if it didn’t sell, it was most probably over priced by a greedy estate agent. 

[Weihrauch17]

30 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Quite simply, we do not have a conservative government. They seem hell bent on punishing those with money, for the mistakes made by government.

This.

[Yellow Bear]

26 minutes ago, owain said:

the internet means people can work from home easily. 

In many of the areas internet speeds are too slow with limited bandwidth for this.   We live semi rural but even here, on the fastest package the net drops  2 or 3   times a day and upload/download is slow much of the day due to over usage.