The Basics

[Scully]

I don’t mean to lecture, and it’s probably an age thing, but this really boils my urine. I could understand it if it were difficult but it’s simplicity itself! My nephew and his mates have been doing this since they were big enough to grip the slip.
Was on the clays today and three different people pointed their unbroken guns at me….two women and a man. 
I didn’t see one person ( with the exception of mate ) who knew how to remove a shotgun from its slip without waving the muzzles around at about feet or shin level! One woman even swung her slip up until it pointed at the sky, undid the flap and let the gun drop out; heaven knows what will happen on the day she fails to catch it! 
What she thought she was doing is anyone’s guess as it was still unbroken after she’d done that! 🤷‍♂️

Anyhow, this isn’t just for trap shooters, it’s for every single person out there who doesn’t have a clue, and by the look of things that’s a lot. 
 

[Dave at kelton]

You are correct in all respects. Trouble is people aren’t educated on the point! Isn’t just on clay grounds either. See it in the field often enough.

[sutty2006]

It’s inevitable those that have no experience with firearms walk amongst us. And they should be educated if seen doing something unsafe. 
 

if I’m out with the 12g, it comes out of the slip in the boot of the car, and I’ll break it right there and then, then walk down to the traps with it broken. The only time it isn’t broken is in the slip or loaded.

 

it’s a different story with my 410. Being a converted rifle, it can’t be broken. So I’ll either sling it on my shoulder using the sling or carry it low down with the bolt open. That way folk can see its of no harm. 
 

nice little video for new folks to the sport mind! 

[Scully]

48 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

 Isn’t just on clay grounds either. See it in the field often enough.

True, hence my comment ‘this isn’t just for trap shooters’.

I have seen horrendous examples in both the field and on the clay ground. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And did you point out to each of them the error of their ways?

[Scully]

59 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And did you point out to each of them the error of their ways?

I’m not one for embarrassing people in front of others, and there was quite a group of people at one of the stands in question, so no, I never said anything to the two women. 
I did ask the bloke who swung his gun through my waistline if his gun was empty, while he fiddled with an ear plug, but he just smiled as if I’d said something funny. 🤷‍♂️ Thick is thick.  

I have pointed out to many over the years that they’ve just swung their muzzles through someone, and responses vary immensely, but the best method is to teach them when mentoring. 

If you want to make a point AND show them up, the best way is to shout and jump out of the way. It does get their attention, and that of everyone else also. 

[benbobailey]

I always question anyone who carries/handles/points an unbroken gun in a dangerous manner. When they indignantly reply that the gun isn't loaded, I tell them if they are so sure it's empty, to put muzzles in mouth and pull trigger. Not surprisingly, no one has yet to do so, but either break gun or skulk off muttering to themselves. Old school guns are often the worst as well as the inexperienced.

[London Best]

11 hours ago, Scully said:

 

If you want to make a point AND show them up, the best way is to shout and jump out of the way. It does get their attention, and that of everyone else also. 

This.

A shout of, “Oi!, don’t point that ******* thing at me again.” usually has the desired effect.

[discobob]

Had a "person" (not male) at a shoot a couple of months ago swinging round after they had taken the shot with a closed gun - I lambasted them while everyone went running..

[Jega]

20 hours ago, benbobailey said:

I always question anyone who carries/handles/points an unbroken gun in a dangerous manner. When they indignantly reply that the gun isn't loaded, I tell them if they are so sure it's empty, to put muzzles in mouth and pull trigger. Not surprisingly, no one has yet to do so, but either break gun or skulk off muttering to themselves. Old school guns are often the worst as well as the inexperienced.

Yep bang on mate ,this is what an "unloaded " shotgun can do .................

 

 

[GHE]

Yes, it's usually the experienced old women (of both genders) who are so arrogant and who ignore all of the safety rules.

And of course, they are led from the very top. . .

[Westley]

5 minutes ago, GHE said:

Yes, it's usually the experienced old women (of both genders) who are so arrogant and who ignore all of the safety rules.

And of course, they are led from the very top. . .

It would have been a BRAVE man to to have told him too  !    😄

[GHE]

Just now, Westley said:

It would have been a BRAVE man to to have told him too  !    😄

Well, BASC could have mentioned it, he was after all their Patron . . .

Personally, I've had two near misses (and have seen others).

First one. A VERY safety-conscious shooter who was always telling other people about their failings. He shot his last pair at a stand with his first shot, turned round and walked out of the stand with the gun still loaded, it was pointing straight at me. When I jumped out of the way and shouted at him he flatly denied that it was loaded until he opened it! Easily avoided by opening the gun, but he knew better.

Second one. An old boy who had suffered a stroke and was very weak. At almost every stand, he fired the first shot and the recoil knocked him over, my mates caught him twice as he fell. Then he did it again, landed on his back with his finger on the trigger and the barrel was pointing straight at me. Fortunately, a mate kicked the barrel away from me.

[Westley]

2 hours ago, GHE said:

Well, BASC could have mentioned it, he was after all their Patron . . .

Personally, I've had two near misses (and have seen others).

First one. A VERY safety-conscious shooter who was always telling other people about their failings. He shot his last pair at a stand with his first shot, turned round and walked out of the stand with the gun still loaded, it was pointing straight at me. When I jumped out of the way and shouted at him he flatly denied that it was loaded until he opened it! Easily avoided by opening the gun, but he knew better.

Second one. An old boy who had suffered a stroke and was very weak. At almost every stand, he fired the first shot and the recoil knocked him over, my mates caught him twice as he fell. Then he did it again, landed on his back with his finger on the trigger and the barrel was pointing straight at me. Fortunately, a mate kicked the barrel away from me.

I have been shot TWICE in the same day..........by THE SAME guy    ! Thankfully both times at over 100 yards, it still stings though.  On the 3rd occasion it was a sawn off from about 60 yards, but THAT is another story  !

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

I have been shot TWICE in the same day..........by THE SAME guy

If you had returned fire after the first time he may have thought twice about doing it again!

[Westley]

34 minutes ago, London Best said:

If you had returned fire after the first time he may have thought twice about doing it again!

😄  the problem was, I was a guest. The shoot Captain was aware and did speak to him. The Offender, a retired GP, was around 80 ish and I think a long standing member of the syndicate. Thing is, I am now at that age, but remembering that incident which was around 45 years ago, makes me even more careful of where my barrels are pointed  !  

[HantsRob]

15 hours ago, Westley said:

On the 3rd occasion it was a sawn off from about 60 yards, but THAT is another story  !

That sounds like it needs a beer and face to face!

Out of a technical curiosity, I wonder how the sawed off would pattern. I assume just the same or very similar to cylinder? 

[Westley]

14 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

That sounds like it needs a beer and face to face!

Out of a technical curiosity, I wonder how the sawed off would pattern. I assume just the same or very similar to cylinder? 

Thankfully, VERY wide. I was thankful for some heavy overtrousers   ! Oh and some brown trousers under them  !  😄

[GHE]

3 hours ago, HantsRob said:

That sounds like it needs a beer and face to face!

Out of a technical curiosity, I wonder how the sawed off would pattern. I assume just the same or very similar to cylinder? 

I know nothing about sawn-offs, but the laws of physics tell us that they must have extremely low power  and that the shot must spread far and wide. The number of people who have survived being shot at what the police like to call "point blank range" - whatever that is - suggests that I'm right.

[Westley]

4 hours ago, GHE said:

I know nothing about sawn-offs, but the laws of physics tell us that they must have extremely low power  and that the shot must spread far and wide. The number of people who have survived being shot at what the police like to call "point blank range" - whatever that is - suggests that I'm right.

I would also suggest that shot size matters greatly. My colleague and I were lucky that shot size 8 or over was used. We had Barbour waxed overtrousers on too.

[HantsRob]

5 hours ago, GHE said:

I know nothing about sawn-offs, but the laws of physics tell us that they must have extremely low power  and that the shot must spread far and wide. The number of people who have survived being shot at what the police like to call "point blank range" - whatever that is - suggests that I'm right.

Looking at some research, a sawed off gun is still 16" or so, so will still have efficacy. I suggest it's down to a lack of choke that throws it wide, and quicker. 
 

I do get what you're saying, point blank in close quarter self defence will no doubt be several foot, and also the police will shoot to stop a threat. I wonder if they use a pepper pot so to speak, so a size 9 shot maybe? That's my next rabbit hole to look into 😂

9 hours ago, Westley said:

Thankfully, VERY wide. I was thankful for some heavy overtrousers   ! Oh and some brown trousers under them  !  😄

I'm glad you are ok all the same. 
I think I'd have a brown out too 🤣

[Westley]

Thank you, it was a good few years ago. I have been retired for 22 years, but I can still see that day VERY clearly.

[vmaxphil]

I read a book by an ex met police officer ( green to blue) he nearly got his head blown off in his first week by a sawn off and had the nickname " nostrils " 

[Westley]

2 hours ago, vmaxphil said:

I read a book by an ex met police officer ( green to blue) he nearly got his head blown off in his first week by a sawn off and had the nickname " nostrils " 

Yes, one of the 'perks' of the job, I'm sorry to say  !   Far more likely to happen now than back in my day though. Still, if you are only going to get 'Community Service '  I suppose it is worth the risk  🙄