A Warning from a Barrister re Folding Pocket Knives

[welsh1]

45 minutes ago, eddoakley said:

Hahha really?

I'm knife not a tool? Was rock a weapon designed to infilct harm or used as a tool??  A stick? Until it was used as a club...

Ah, you know what? Not worth it. Clearly one of the sheeple.

 

Whether I Or anyone else act against it there no denying that the powers that be constantly erode our liberty and the "technicality" of whether something can be described as a weapon is another example.  The reality is that everything is a weapon of you want it to be. Allowing it to be described as a "potential weapon" is just another way to control what you are "allowed" to do.

 

Edd

 

 

What was the primary design of a knife, to cut and harm, was a rock designed by a human?, was a stick designed by a human?
As said like it or not a rifle was designed with a purpose and that was to harm and maim

There are items designed to be weapons, rifles, swords  knifes etc, just because some of you "sheeple" want to call them sporting rifles doesn't change what their primary design was.

And as you said anything can become a weapon when used to harm but they are not designed for the purpose and until they are used to harm are not weapons.

[NatureBoy]

Flintstone! The old skool multitool. Weapon? Only if you're caught knapping.  😀  NB

[12gauge82]

On 06/07/2023 at 12:44, Fellside said:

Straight from the Home Office Guidelines Intro’: “Some firearms and shot guns may be held on a firearm or shot gun certificate issued by the police”   etc. etc….. HO language and practice, setting out their stall so to speak. The word weapon isn’t used. Most of their terminology is around firearms and shotguns. 

However, they are further referred to as ‘weapons’ with in the context of potential criminality and harm - especially prohibited firearms. I’m sure your opinion will differ (and that’s absolutely fine), but I’m quite happy with the word ‘gun’. 

Don't want to wade in on this one, but thought I'd point out if you look up the legal definition of a firearm, you will note it described as something along the lines of a lethal barrelled weapon 😂

[wymberley]

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Don't want to wade in on this one, but thought I'd point out if you look up the legal definition of a firearm, you will note it described as something along the lines of a lethal barrelled weapon 😂

Depends where you look. Just searched a dictionary meaning for, ‘firearm’ and got, ‘rifle, pistol or other portable gun’.

[Fellside]

13 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Don't want to wade in on this one, but thought I'd point out if you look up the legal definition of a firearm, you will note it described as something along the lines of a lethal barrelled weapon 😂

HO guidelines (as I acknowledged earlier), describe firearms as weapons within the context of potential criminality - which is what they primarily deal with of course. Glad you got a chuckle out of it anyway……🙂
 

The real legal core, of all gun use, is the 1968 Firearms Act. This throughout its very long (!) text refers to guns as firearms whatever type they are. You’ll need a free evening and a big glass of something if you want to wade through that one. As I mentioned earlier, I think I will stick with ‘gun’.

[12gauge82]

30 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Depends where you look. Just searched a dictionary meaning for, ‘firearm’ and got, ‘rifle, pistol or other portable gun’.

That's correct although I stated "the legal definition" which is "lethal barrelled weapon", or words to that affect.

[wymberley]

11 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's correct although I stated "the legal definition" which is "lethal barrelled weapon", or words to that affect.

 Yep, can't argue with that. It describes a 'firearm' and is as in the 'Firearms' Act. What I believe many of us are trying to get at is we are better off in the eyes of the public (who, it must be said, don't really give two hoots until it all goes pear shaped) if we talk about owning and using shotguns and/or sporting rifles or, collectively, firearms as opposed to 'weapons' with its associated inference.  

[spanj]

On 05/07/2023 at 13:45, Westley said:

A knife is, like it or not, a 'bladed weapon'  !

THAT should get you Community Service   🤣

I believe that all of this legislation both old and new is a feeble attempt at making it look as if someone is doing something about the out of control knife crime. It looks good on the news and keeps someone, somewhere, with their 'nose in the trough'  !  We all know it is as effective as a chocolate fireguard,  handguns are a classic example  ??

Something can only be counted as a weapon when used offensively. Is a kitchen knife a bladed weapon?

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

 Yep, can't argue with that. It describes a 'firearm' and is as in the 'Firearms' Act. What I believe many of us are trying to get at is we are better off in the eyes of the public (who, it must be said, don't really give two hoots until it all goes pear shaped) if we talk about owning and using shotguns and/or sporting rifles or, collectively, firearms as opposed to 'weapons' with its associated inference.  

👍

1 hour ago, spanj said:

Something can only be counted as a weapon when used offensively. Is a kitchen knife a bladed weapon?

While I agree with the morel point you make, according to the law that would appear to be incorrect?

[Westley]

2 hours ago, spanj said:

Something can only be counted as a weapon when used offensively. Is a kitchen knife a bladed weapon?

Dependant upon where it is,  yes   !

Section 139 CJA.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Westley

[Fellside]

33 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

👍

While I agree with the morel point you make, according to the law that would appear to be incorrect?

Again it’s about context. The ‘spirit of the law’ is often more important than that which is written. In the case of firearms (which is their primary legal reference) they are ‘lethal’ and ‘weapons’ etc only in association with criminality. With knifes it’s the same. While used for their legitimate purpose they are merely a work tool. Carried without good reason or malicious intent they are a weapon. 
 

Try walking in to a gun shop and asking: “could I have a lethal barrelled weapon’ and a couple of dangerous bladed weapons please?” I think you may find yourself being lead away to a waiting police vehicle. 

[Westley]

2 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Again it’s about context. The ‘spirit of the law’ is often more important than that which is written. In the case of firearms (which is their primary legal reference) they are ‘lethal’ and ‘weapons’ etc only in association with criminality. With knifes it’s the same. While used for their legitimate purpose they are merely a work tool. Carried without good reason or malicious intent they are a weapon. 
 

Try walking in to a gun shop and asking: “could I have a lethal barrelled weapon’ and a couple of dangerous bladed weapons please?” I think you may find yourself being lead away to a waiting police vehicle. 

Probably,  we don't have persons in white coats anymore........it is left to the Police to deal with  🙄

[Fellside]

23 minutes ago, Westley said:

Probably,  we don't have persons in white coats anymore........it is left to the Police to deal with  🙄

Indeed. 

[12gauge82]

50 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Again it’s about context. The ‘spirit of the law’ is often more important than that which is written. In the case of firearms (which is their primary legal reference) they are ‘lethal’ and ‘weapons’ etc only in association with criminality. With knifes it’s the same. While used for their legitimate purpose they are merely a work tool. Carried without good reason or malicious intent they are a weapon. 
 

Try walking in to a gun shop and asking: “could I have a lethal barrelled weapon’ and a couple of dangerous bladed weapons please?” I think you may find yourself being lead away to a waiting police vehicle. 

Absolutely 👍

[Penelope]

On 07/07/2023 at 17:58, eddoakley said:

Hahha really?

I'm knife not a tool? Was rock a weapon designed to infilct harm or used as a tool??  A stick? Until it was used as a club...

Ah, you know what? Not worth it. Clearly one of the sheeple.

 

Whether I Or anyone else act against it there no denying that the powers that be constantly erode our liberty and the "technicality" of whether something can be described as a weapon is another example.  The reality is that everything is a weapon of you want it to be. Allowing it to be described as a "potential weapon" is just another way to control what you are "allowed" to do.

 

Edd

 

 

The Milwall brick being a prime example. All it is, is a carefully folded newspaper.

[JohnfromUK]

The concern about knives in the wrong hands was brought home to me today. 

I had been to the vets to collect more Nexgard tablets - and the traffic seized solid as I was returning.  When I (eventually) got home - I looked on local news and it seems there was a teacher stabbed by a pupil at the local school (about a mile from the vets) and many roads were locked down in the school area.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66151983

Fortunately, the initial reports indicate that the injury is not life threatening. 

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Fortunately, the initial reports indicate that the injury is not life threatening

Maybe not life threatening - but definitely life changing.

[Daz45]

When I was into archery some years ago, everyone on the field carried a shorts sheath knife to dig the arrows out of the boss and the wooden stand. Wonder what they will do now? Probably OK as the ground was private club land which should be OK.

[Penelope]

17 hours ago, Daz45 said:

When I was into archery some years ago, everyone on the field carried a shorts sheath knife to dig the arrows out of the boss and the wooden stand. Wonder what they will do now? Probably OK as the ground was private club land which should be OK.

Legitimate reason?

[Daz45]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

Legitimate reason?

Well I suppose the archers could use a hammer and chisel instead?

[Newbie to this]

14 minutes ago, Daz45 said:

Well I suppose the archers could use a hammer and chisel instead?

So could those about to attack someone.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Daz45 said:

Well I suppose the archers could use a hammer and chisel instead?

No, I was suggesting that is a legitimate reason.