New Rifle for the British Army

[Centrepin]

This thread is not about killing or injury.

It was posted for opinions of the New British Army rifle. I thought it maybe of interest to veterans of all three services and to those who have an interest in rifles in general.

A different review:

 

[ditchman]

looks far more shootable than the sa 80..........

[ordnance]

Anything would be a upgrade from the SA80. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Anything would be a upgrade from the SA80. 

Have you used it much?

[ordnance]

24 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Have you used it much?

I have shot it, but that has nothing to do with its poor design and faults. I also think any f1 car would be better than the AlphaTauri, and no haven't used a f1 car much.

Edited September 17, 2023 by ordnance

[Sweet11-87]

i hope we get it but i think it might be a good while before this is common place and standard issue. still havent roled the A3 out to most of  units and that was designed to take us up to 2030 eariest

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sweet11-87

[enfieldspares]

15 hours ago, Centrepin said:

This thread is not about killing or injury. It was posted for opinions of the New British Army rifle.

Thank you. The first thing the Guards and some others will ask, if its adopted across the board by all infantry regiments, once they get it to work out the new arms drill for it is likely where does the bayonet go? And this is not, either, a thread about killing or injuring with bayonets. But indeed...where does the bayonet go? LOL!

Edited September 17, 2023 by enfieldspares

[Centrepin]

7 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Thank you. The first thing the Guards and some others will ask, if its adopted across the board by all infantry regiments, once they get it to work out the new arms drill for it is likely where does the bayonet go? And this is not, either, a thread about killing or injuring with bayonets. But indeed...where does the bayonet go? LOL!

My regiment not being known for drill or even its turnout it's one of the things I never considered.

It was always a talking point if bayonets would ever be needed or used again. The current bayonet is a poor quality badly balanced "knife" with other uses. A leatherman multi tool is a more useful item to carry.

I just can't imagine a Gaurds regiment on parade with moderators fitted, it doesn't go with the image. Perhaps it's a time for pageantry to return to wooden furniture on a more traditional looking rifle, a Lee Endfield or even a Baker?😁

 

[enfieldspares]

46 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

I just can't imagine a Gaurds regiment on parade with moderators fitted, it doesn't go with the image. Perhaps it's a time for pageantry to return to wooden furniture on a more traditional looking rifle, a Lee Endfield or even a Baker?

Oh no! That'd break the direct link between red soldiering and green soldiering and turn them into the same as the Danish soldiers or French Republican Guard who stand public duty with obsolete rifles rather than current issue rifles. Or those daft American lot, the US Army Drill Team you used to see at the Edinburg Festival whirling their M1 Garand rifles about like majorettes. I think the only time it's been done was when the No5 was issue alongside the No4 and the Guards took the No4 out for public duties.

[oowee]

On 09/09/2023 at 14:06, Scully said:

Well not really. I’m meaning knockdown as out of the fight entirely, as in manstopper.
There are many instances of .223 ammo and 9mm parabellum doing neither knocking down nor stopping, especially when faced with drugged up adversaries. 
I agree about the .303, or any .30 cal’ firearm actually, even the 7.62. 

An attribute of 223 is its light and easier to carry. 

[discobob]

This may be an urban legend - but apparently in some middle eastern "conflict" some units got SLR's out of storage as they were finding that when their opposition was injured by SA80 they carried on fighting as is the way with fanatecs etc...

Injuring them was less effective than killing them - The SA80 was designed with civilised war in mind due to the injury takes out numerous resources...That didn't apply over there...

[Scully]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

An attribute of 223 is its light and easier to carry. 

I think that was a major consideration; that and it would mean most if not all NATO would be using the same ammo. 

1 hour ago, discobob said:

This may be an urban legend - but apparently in some middle eastern "conflict" some units got SLR's out of storage as they were finding that when their opposition was injured by SA80 they carried on fighting as is the way with fanatecs etc...

Injuring them was less effective than killing them - The SA80 was designed with civilised war in mind due to the injury takes out numerous resources...That didn't apply over there...

Many US troops ( including Spevial Forces ) in Mogadishu complained the .223 just wasn’t up to the job of putting down the local militia, many of whom were drug addled and armed with the AK 47. 

[Sweet11-87]

6 hours ago, Centrepin said:

My regiment not being known for drill or even its turnout it's one of the things I never considered.

It was always a talking point if bayonets would ever be needed or used again. The current bayonet is a poor quality badly balanced "knife" with other uses. A leatherman multi tool is a more useful item to carry.

I just can't imagine a Gaurds regiment on parade with moderators fitted, it doesn't go with the image. Perhaps it's a time for pageantry to return to wooden furniture on a more traditional looking rifle, a Lee Endfield or even a Baker?😁

 

well as it stands guard regiments use  the sa 80 with horrid black velcro covers over the green forend and optics. and  if a a bayonet is so desperatly needed for drill or other requirments the beauty of the m-lok system is they can just add a bayonet mount for the US pattern bayonet with an allen key like any other accesory or even have an entirly new one machined.  while i do still think a bayonet has a place  i think the micro supressor is infinatly more useful modern day for reducing flash, report and controling what little recoil a .223 has.

but like i say i reckon it wil be a long way in the future before this gets wide spread issue. a big part of the royal marines have been using an AR platform  made by colt canada for about 10 years anyway.

[ordnance]

Quote

An attribute of 223 is its light and easier to carry. 

Not in the SA80, thay managed some how to make it the same weight to the 7.62 SLR it replaced 

Quote

Many US troops ( including Spevial Forces ) in Mogadishu complained the .223 just wasn’t up to the job of putting down the local militia, many of whom were drug addled and armed with the AK 47. 

A hit center hit from a 5.56 will put anyone down, druged or not. 

[Scully]

9 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Not in the SA80, thay managed some how to make it the same weight to the 7.62 SLR it replaced 

A hit center hit from a 5.56 will put anyone down, druged or not. 

The comment was in reference to the weight of the round, round for round if you like. 
Yes, it will, but only if vitals are hit.
The troops were on the spot and in the best place to make the judgement. 

[London Best]

51 minutes ago, ordnance said:

 

A hit center hit from a 5.56 will put anyone down, druged or not. 

That will be why it’s not legal for larger deer then.

[Scully]

8 hours ago, London Best said:

That will be why it’s not legal for larger deer then.

Fair point. 👍
 

[Centrepin]

11 hours ago, ordnance said:

 

A hit center hit from a 5.56 will put anyone down, druged or not. 

Never ever have I seen anyone hit centre. It just doesn't happen, ever. You must surely be referring to a figure 11 target.

11 hours ago, Scully said:

The troops were on the spot and in the best place to make the judgement. 

Absolutely 

[ordnance]

11 hours ago, Centrepin said:

Never ever have I seen anyone hit centre. It just doesn't happen, ever. You must surely be referring to a figure 11 target.

Absolutely 

Chest, center mass.

Edited September 21, 2023 by ordnance

[ordnance]

22 hours ago, London Best said:

That will be why it’s not legal for larger deer then.

They don't want a deer running off wounded and left suffering so they go for more powerful round, in war there is no such concern about humans. 5.65 like 9mm are compromises, there are more powerfull rounds but thay also come with issues, weight, training, recoil, controllability on full auto etc. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by ordnance

[Sweet11-87]

22 hours ago, London Best said:

That will be why it’s not legal for larger deer then.

its not uncommon for a even a 30kg roe deer to run 50 yards or more shot in the heart with much bigger rounds than the 5.56.  dont care what drugs people are on theyre not doing that.

its not really a fair or practical measuring stick using larger deer as the benchmark for whats considered a good military round.

[London Best]

24 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

its not uncommon for a even a 30kg roe deer to run 50 yards or more shot in the heart with much bigger rounds than the 5,56

I know, I’ve shot hundreds of ‘em.

[pux]

Nice bit of kit, unfortunately its only for the specialist units like the Rangers and the Marines so far.  Don't think it will be replacing all the L85 A3 anytime soon. 

[enfieldspares]

On 20/09/2023 at 21:07, ordnance said:

Not in the SA80, they managed some how to make it the same weight to the 7.62 SLR it replaced 

Correct. I remember being shown the one alongside the other to make that very point and then...not only that but....the sight radius of the thing when fitted with iron sights (so "tail" units such as transport, logistics, engineers, and communications) was less than the sight radius on the SLR L1A1 and on the SMLE and No4 and No5 Enfield. And that's even before the fact that they are stuck a full two inches above the line of the bore.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

But although the same weight as the SLR the weight is closer in to the body.