Do Your Neighbours Know You Shoot?

[Scully]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

I think the majority of shooters are not helping the cause by constantly hiding their way of life from the general public. Consequently most Joe Public’s now think it is illegal to own guns or shoot anything. The population need re-educating. There is no law against walking down the street carrying a dead bird. No law against taking one on a train or bus. They are only meat after all. And I am sure there is no law against walking down the street with an unsleeved gun, except in the Airguns and Shotguns (Young Persons) Act, which only applied to persons under the age of seventeen. I am not aware this law has ever been changed to include adults.

This. We are our own worst enemies, we really are. 
Some UK shooters seem to live in fear of offending someone or attracting criticism. We are doing nothing illegal, nor do we have to justify what we do. 
There will always be those who are offended by something, pandering to that does us no favours whatsoever. 

[PeterHenry]

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

You well may be right L B about educating the public , but I would rather be on the side of caution , if you do need to walk down the road carrying a gun and a brace of Pheasants then is it any hardship to at least sleeve your gun and put the brace of birds in a game bag ? , we are a fairly small village that is on the edge of open countryside and yet there are three schools within a few hundred yards from each other , you can imagine what it is like with mums taking the kids or should I said driving the kids to school between 8 and 9 in the morning and 3 and 4 in the afternoons , now even though you say it is not against the law , would it look right if someone who might well be dressed in camo gear , walking down the road with a un sleeved gun and carrying a hand full of birds ? , I could well imagine the police would be called out , where if he was a bit more discreate and sleeved his gun and putting the birds in a bag then there would be a good chance he could carry on without hardly a notice .     MM

 

1 hour ago, London Best said:

That is the whole point, MM. Th police shouldn’t be called out. You would be doing nothing wrong. Time was nobody would have batted an eyelid.  The public need educating. And, in many cases, the police too.

You both have very good points.

I think there's possibly a middle ground to be struck, because context and how things are perceived counts for a lot in a great many instances - especially with the internet, social media, etc.

I'd say that walking down a quiet country lane with a broken gun over you arm, while wearing moleskin trousers and a barbour jacket is received differently by most than walking past a lot of parked cars wearing full camo with a black synthetic stocked self loader  - and there are obviously shades of grey in between. For some people, neither will be acceptable.  For a lot of others, one is accepted on the grounds of engrained customs and (perhaps folk) memories - its part of the countryside - and the other looks like something they have seen on youtube about paramilitaries.

I cross the road without sleeving my gun, and in the syndicate I'm a member of we walk down quiet lanes with guns over our arms. I live on the edge of a small town, and happily leave the house with my gun in a sleeve and walk to where I'll going shooting. However,  I wouldn't go as far as my grandfather / great grandfather and walk down the main road to (the then) village with unsleeved guns, go shooting, and stop off at the pub afterwards. Times change, but not always quite so fast as some people think.

Edited October 19, 2023 by PeterHenry

[udderlyoffroad]

And with predictable inevitability, this thread has gone back to 'how it should be' - which as best I can make out it is the late 60s/early 70s. 

Of course, the old boys back then thought the world was going to hell in a handcart too, and it wasn't like it was in their day.  

1 hour ago, Scully said:

This. We are our own worst enemies, we really are. 

That, however is as true as it ever was.

I'm still going to be discrete, even in my small village.  The world has changed, and I honestly have better things to do than calmly defend myself from snide remarks (or worse) from people who have no clue, but whom after all, I have to rub along with.

Maybe you old boys who are retired could offer to give a school assembly about how game gets turned into food for the table?

[PeterHenry]

13 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

And with predictable inevitability, this thread has gone back to 'how it should be' - which as best I can make out it is the late 60s/early 70s. 

Of course, the old boys back then thought the world was going to hell in a handcart too, and it wasn't like it was in their day.  

That, however is as true as it ever was.

I'm still going to be discrete, even in my small village.  The world has changed, and I honestly have better things to do than calmly defend myself from snide remarks (or worse) from people who have no clue, but whom after all, I have to rub along with.

Maybe you old boys who are retired could offer to give a school assembly about how game gets turned into food for the table?

Not saying you are wrong, but I'm in my mid 30's

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, PeterHenry said:

 

You both have very good points.

I think there's possibly a middle ground to be struck, because context and how things are perceived counts for a lot in a great many instances - especially with the internet, social media, etc.

I'd say that walking down a quiet country lane with a broken gun over you arm, while wearing moleskin trousers and a barbour jacket is received differently by most than walking past a lot of parked cars wearing full camo with a black synthetic stocked self loader  - and there are obviously shades of grey in between. For some people, neither will be acceptable.  For a lot of others, one is accepted on the grounds of engrained customs and (perhaps folk) memories - its part of the countryside - and the other looks like something they have seen on youtube about paramilitaries.

I cross the road without sleeving my gun, and in the syndicate I'm a member of we walk down quiet lanes with guns over our arms. I live on the edge of a small town, and happily leave the house with my gun in a sleeve and walk to where I'll going shooting. However,  I wouldn't go as far as my grandfather / great grandfather and walk down the main road to (the then) village with unsleeved guns, go shooting, and stop off at the pub afterwards. Times change, but not always quite so fast as some people think.

Well put Peter H , The thing is we are saying what your allowed to do and why hide it , you know that in this day and age if you walk down a road in a built up area with an un sleeved gun under your arm you are more than likely to be stopped by the police , or at worse  surrounded by the firearms division , all right you might think you know the law and after a long debate you might be able to go on your way , then the same thing happen again because you are stuck in your ways and think you know best , do you honestly believe when the time come to renew your s g c ( if you have still got one to run out ) that the times you were stopped isn't going to make any difference when you are applying for the new one ? , all this could be avoided by simply putting your gun in a sleeve and any game in a bag , I know what I would sooner do .    MM

[Westley]

18 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

And with predictable inevitability, this thread has gone back to 'how it should be' - which as best I can make out it is the late 60s/early 70s. 

Of course, the old boys back then thought the world was going to hell in a handcart too, and it wasn't like it was in their day.  

That, however is as true as it ever was.

I'm still going to be discrete, even in my small village.  The world has changed, and I honestly have better things to do than calmly defend myself from snide remarks (or worse) from people who have no clue, but whom after all, I have to rub along with.

Maybe you old boys who are retired could offer to give a school assembly about how game gets turned into food for the table?

There is no space in the School's busy curriculum for teaching them about how game is turned into food, the RSPB have taken all the available space. In the mid 90's as the Force Wildlife Liaison Officer,  I went into Schools and like Duncan Thomas, who did the same job in Lancashire, never hid the fact that I was a Shooting man. However, on more than one occasion,  I would meet the RSPB representative coming out of the school, before I went in  !

13 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

Not saying you are wrong, but I'm in my mid 30's

I have Grandkids of your age  !   😆

[Westley]

In the 1990's I had quite a large shoot on the Urban fringe, in fact on 2 borders we're 2 of the toughest housing estates in Merseyside.  7 of the 10 guns were also Police Officers.  We had to both cross main roads and walk along some of them to access other fields. We never hid our guns, although we did use game bags to carry the birds. It was not without some difficulties,  the car horn honking along with the shouted abuse. We simply smiled and waved to them, however, on one occasion a car stopped on the road, we were walking parallel to the road, about 50 yards in. From the back window of the car, TWO shots from a sawn off came our way. Thankfully at 50 to 60 yards a sawn off is pretty ineffective.  We still had pellets embedded in our waxproof leggings though. We just carried on shooting, a minor incident like that was not going to stop us  😄

[Penelope]

6 hours ago, London Best said:

I think the majority of shooters are not helping the cause by constantly hiding their way of life from the general public. Consequently most Joe Public’s now think it is illegal to own guns or shoot anything. The population need re-educating. There is no law against walking down the street carrying a dead bird. No law against taking one on a train or bus. They are only meat after all. And I am sure there is no law against walking down the street with an unsleeved gun, except in the Airguns and Shotguns (Young Persons) Act, which only applied to persons under the age of seventeen. I am not aware this law has ever been changed to include adults.

This 👍

[mossy835]

so who would be brave and walk down the street.with a shot gun unsleeved.cops will be every where.

[martinj]

There is at least one rifle range underground in or near central London. I'm led to believe that people disguise what they are carrying using Hockey bags on the tube or in Taxis, you might be surprised what they contain although when you see some 70+ year old, overweight old geezer with a heavy sports bag it might ring alarm bells.

[London Best]

28 minutes ago, martinj said:

There is at least one rifle range underground in or near central London. I'm led to believe that people disguise what they are carrying using Hockey bags on the tube or in Taxis, you might be surprised what they contain although when you see some 70+ year old, overweight old geezer with a heavy sports bag it might ring alarm bells.

I know one chap who collects vintage air guns who will transport them in anything except a gun sleeve. Music instrument cases are his favourite. He is scared that anyone knows he has old airguns. I reckon he must think it’s illegal.

[Scully]

53 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

so who would be brave and walk down the street.with a shot gun unsleeved.cops will be every where.

Never unsleeved in my home town or even my village, but sleeved have done and will continue to do so. 
Isn’t it illegal nowadays to do so with an unsleeved gun? 🤷‍♂️
During a driven day I and others have stood on a country lane/road to shoot, which I believe is fine as long as no one’s right of passage is impeded. 

[London Best]

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

Isn’t it illegal nowadays to do so with an unsleeved gun? 🤷‍♂️
 

If it is I can’t find which Act of Parliament it comes under.

 

But happy to be corrected.

Edited October 19, 2023 by London Best

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, London Best said:

If it is I can’t find which Act of Parliament it comes under.

 

But happy to be corrected.

As am I. I thought it was but perhaps I just dreamt it! 🤷‍♂️

Just gave it a quick google and apparently as long as you have good reason and the gun is unloaded, you are ok to go. 👍

[London Best]

24 minutes ago, Scully said:

As am I. I thought it was but perhaps I just dreamt it! 🤷‍♂️

Just gave it a quick google and apparently as long as you have good reason and the gun is unloaded, you are ok to go. 👍

Thanks for that. 
People get confused with the Airguns and Shotguns (Young Persons) Act, applicable until you are 17.

[Poor Shot]

I would walk down a country lane from one peg to another with an unsleeved gun while out on a shoot providing that I was well out of town and only a very short distance. Last years DIY shoot, all of the drives were within 150 yards of base so It wasn't uncommon for people to walk out to a drive without slips. 

With that said, we did have a visit from plod on one of last years shoots as some ramblers had reported the guns walking down a lane (out of one farm gate and into another) with guns out of the slip. It's likely they would have done so even if the guns were slipped. Local plod turned up in a panda car, gave the vehicles a once over while we were on break and had a word with one of the guns who went over to investigate. 

[PeterHenry]

5 hours ago, marsh man said:

Well put Peter H , The thing is we are saying what your allowed to do and why hide it , you know that in this day and age if you walk down a road in a built up area with an un sleeved gun under your arm you are more than likely to be stopped by the police , or at worse  surrounded by the firearms division , all right you might think you know the law and after a long debate you might be able to go on your way , then the same thing happen again because you are stuck in your ways and think you know best , do you honestly believe when the time come to renew your s g c ( if you have still got one to run out ) that the times you were stopped isn't going to make any difference when you are applying for the new one ? , all this could be avoided by simply putting your gun in a sleeve and any game in a bag , I know what I would sooner do .    MM

I agree, I think it's good to exercise judgement. Just because you can can do something (such as wear socks AND sandals) doesn't mean you should. But on the other side of the coin, I would rather not live in a world where such things were banned. And so, it needs a little of one and a little of the other - just so these things don't dissappear.

I can remember a guy who use to help me out with the bit of farming I do - he was a freind of someone I know, and it was free labour so I thought, 'hey ho, what could go wrong?'

Anyway, he asked me if he could use his air rifle there, so I told him sure - to hit tin cans and paper targets. And once I've seen that he can hit those well enough, he can can have a go at the rabbits and rats. Then I went down one day and found pellets embedded in the side of the stables - not one or two, but a whole load of them. As in he had been tacking paper targets to the side of the building and shooting then from inside the barn oppose, so he wouldn't get wet in the rain......

It's people like that who's judgement I sometimes worry about.....

 

5 hours ago, Westley said:

I have Grandkids of your age  !   😆

Hopefully who shoot? 🙂

Edited October 19, 2023 by PeterHenry

[Westley]

3 of the 6 do, but 1 is in NZ.

[Westley]

Some of my neighbours know I shoot. The lad next door moved in a couple of years ago.  He didn't shoot, but he does now  ! 

Another neighbour was chatting to me one day and asked if I had any ideas for a surprise birthday gift for her Grandaughter.  I suggested they went clay shooting as a group. She thought it was a fantastic idea.  I saw them at the ground 2 weeks ago and they were having a great time. They enjoyed it so much they are going again as  Christmas get together. 

[Westley]

3 hours ago, martinj said:

There is at least one rifle range underground in or near central London. I'm led to believe that people disguise what they are carrying using Hockey bags on the tube or in Taxis, you might be surprised what they contain although when you see some 70+ year old, overweight old geezer with a heavy sports bag it might ring alarm bells.

It's probably his lunch  !

[PeterHenry]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

3 of the 6 do, but 1 is in NZ.

👍 that's pretty good going

[marsh man]

4 hours ago, martinj said:

 although when you see some 70+ year old, overweight old geezer with a heavy sports bag it might ring alarm bells.

Apart from being overweight I would certainly match your description  , although it is very unlikely you would ever see me London , how anyone reach old age in the capitol is beyond me with how they rush about and look as if they haven't got a minute to live , we had the misfortune to go down there about 20 years ago to a court case at the justice of courts ? , we got the train in the morning at Diss , the journey from there was fairly relaxing , then each station we stopped at there were more and more people getting on , time we got to Liverpool St the train was packed , as soon as the train stopped it was like the start of the London marathon , to us it was a eye opener as we had never seen people like that running to work ,we got through the day and we were dead lucky to get a seat on the train to get back home , time it left the station you wouldn't had got another person on board , then each station on the back a few started to get off and time we got back to Diss we were left with enough room to swing a cat round , to think the following day would be exactly the same then good luck to the people who live and work in London as they would certainly need all the luck they can get     MM

[London Best]

11 hours ago, marsh man said:

Apart from being overweight I would certainly match your description  , although it is very unlikely you would ever see me London , how anyone reach old age in the capitol is beyond me with how they rush about and look as if they haven't got a minute to live , we had the misfortune to go down there about 20 years ago to a court case at the justice of courts ? , we got the train in the morning at Diss , the journey from there was fairly relaxing , then each station we stopped at there were more and more people getting on , time we got to Liverpool St the train was packed , as soon as the train stopped it was like the start of the London marathon , to us it was a eye opener as we had never seen people like that running to work ,we got through the day and we were dead lucky to get a seat on the train to get back home , time it left the station you wouldn't had got another person on board , then each station on the back a few started to get off and time we got back to Diss we were left with enough room to swing a cat round , to think the following day would be exactly the same then good luck to the people who live and work in London as they would certainly need all the luck they can get     MM

They are welcome to the place as far as I am concerned.

[Penelope]

18 hours ago, Westley said:

There is no space in the School's busy curriculum for teaching them about how game is turned into food, the RSPB have taken all the available space. In the mid 90's as the Force Wildlife Liaison Officer,  I went into Schools and like Duncan Thomas, who did the same job in Lancashire, never hid the fact that I was a Shooting man. However, on more than one occasion,  I would meet the RSPB representative coming out of the school, before I went in  !

I have Grandkids of your age  !   😆

Yes, the indoctrination of the young is happening over a wide range of issues. The left play the long game and it will get worse for us under the next Labour government (see yesterday's by election results in Mid Beds (in particular) and Tamworth) - small turnouts but major gains).

Edited October 20, 2023 by Penelope

[Dougy]

The village (now a rather larger one)i live in, worked in as a butcher and occasionally drink in most of the old timers know or have an idea i shoot. The local pubs 100% definitely know, customers from the butchers knew i shot. 

Couldn't give a monkeys if folk found out and didnt agree.