We reap what we sow

[Kalahari]

Actually it is the CPS which decides if a prosecution goes ahead, so Saville and the grooming gangs happened on Starmer's watch so he is ultimately responsible.

 

David.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Kalahari

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Kalahari said:

Actually it is the CPS which decides if a prosecution goes ahead, so Saville and the grooming gangs happened on Starmer's watch so he is ultimately responsible.

 

David.

Even if he never saw the case? 

[Kalahari]

Just now, oowee said:

Even if he never saw the case? 

Well ultimately yes, because he is responsible for the way decisions are made. As I said it was on his watch, the Captain of the ship is responsible for his junior officers decisions!

 

David.

[Newbie to this]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

Even if he never saw the case? 

Of course he never saw the case, someone as high profile as Saville, doesn't warrant the attention of the head of the CPS, right?

[oowee]

18 minutes ago, Kalahari said:

Well ultimately yes, because he is responsible for the way decisions are made. As I said it was on his watch, the Captain of the ship is responsible for his junior officers decisions!

 

David.

CPS is not a ship. It works within strict guidelines set for it. 

Savile was interviewed under caution in 2009, at which point the police consulted the CPS for guidance about allegations.

Sir Keir was not the lawyer responsible for the cases and has said he did not know about the failure to prosecute Savile until after the entertainer's death in 2011. He went on to appoint Alison Levitt QC, his principal legal adviser, to examine the decisions.

In the wake of a damning report which found failings on the part of the CPS and argued it “should have sought to ‘build’ a prosecution”, Sir Keir criticised his organisation’s handling of the cases and said her findings should represent a “watershed moment”.

[Kalahari]

I'm sorry but your attitude is very sad. Many of the problems we face in this country are caused by Government employees who are not held accountable for the decisions and as a result don't care at all.

 

David.

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

and has said he did not know about the failure to prosecute Savile until after the entertainer's death in 2011

Yes politicians always tell the truth, right?

[ditchman]

people seem to forget about Sir Cyril Smith...............KNOWN arch kiddy fiddler...and nothing was done even then....NOTHING

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Kalahari said:

I'm sorry but your attitude is very sad. Many of the problems we face in this country are caused by Government employees who are not held accountable for the decisions and as a result don't care at all.

 

David.

Govt employees do largely the bidding of their bosses and in my experience are on the whole conscientious and mostly go above and beyond. It's the constant changing of political objectives and lack of clarity which leads to an apparent sluggishness in delivery as teams are constantly broken up and re configured. As soon as one set of rules are in place they are ripped up and another mandate issued.  The constant stream of new ministers, even within a party's term of office, does not help and often before they get a grip of the portfolio can be reassigned. 

I think the bigger issue for UK, is the two party system and the associated lack of democracy we suffer with. The vast majority of the voting public want a moderate govt that gets on with stuff. What we get is two party politics where nothing gets done. A clear example being the current shower where policy has deviated in the extreme without an effective opposition being in place. We lack ambition and the long term plan required to make meaningful  change. 

I recently spoke to a friend of mine who has a house in Madrid. She has just installed solar PV with the help of a government loan, as part of the government plans to be carbon neutral. This offer is nation wide. There is a long term repayment plan. A partnership with the Local Authority allows for an automatic 10 year reduction in council tax. The electricity company is providing the equivalent of a feed in tariff. The panels were installed by apprentices on a green deal learning program. How far away is the UK from this sort of collaboration between central govt, local govt and the private sector for our low carbon future?

[enfieldspares]

11 hours ago, Bigbob said:

I would love to ask sir Stammer who was in charge of the justice system while Jimmy Saville drew breath  What happened to him ?> none of them fill me with confidence Or is it just as you get older you don't have the patience you had and everything annoys you ?>

And I would ask who was Attorney General when the decision was taken to prosecute the directors of Matrix Churchill and who then tried to suppress the evidence that would have then stopped their trial?

[ditchman]

Biden is flying into Irael on wednesday.................call me old fashioned ...but aint that a bit risky ?.....Hamas and the like have better assets than flint arrowheads !

[serrac]

4 hours ago, ditchman said:

Biden is flying into Irael on wednesday.................call me old fashioned ...but aint that a bit risky ?.....Hamas and the like have better assets than flint arrowheads !

Hopefully he'll be taking a good supply of Depends 🙂

[ditchman]

29 minutes ago, serrac said:

Hopefully he'll be taking a good supply of Depends 🙂

that will go well with his Tenna lady

[Vince Green]

On 15/10/2023 at 13:34, amateur said:

Tony Blair and his motley crew deliberately encouraged Labour-voting immigrants dependant on the state to counteract the Thatcher effect on the upwardly mobile British working class, who had been moving over to the Conservatives 

This ^^^^

And they didn't care who they were or where they came from.

When people come to this country as migrants they bring more than the clothes in their suitcase. They bring their attitudes, beliefs, prejudices and hates as well.

[Vince Green]

On 17/10/2023 at 07:48, ditchman said:

Biden is flying into Irael on wednesday.................call me old fashioned ...but aint that a bit risky ?.....Hamas and the like have better assets than flint arrowheads !

Biden is not going to try and help sort out the problem. He is going to bolster his support from the very strong and influential Jewish lobby back in the States.

There is an election coming over there remember . He is playing to the home voters and the doners to his election campaign 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Vince Green

[Vince Green]

On 16/10/2023 at 17:39, oowee said:

Even if he never saw the case? 

Are you trying to say that a decision on a case as high profile as Saville would not have been run past the boss ?

He can SAY that he didn't know anything about it but it's pretty inconceivable that it wasn't sent upstairs because of the magnitude of the implications.

In fact, I believe the Saville case was dropped precisely because of the pressure from on high. Too many people in high places would be brought down by the fallout. Which means Starmer would have been leaned on

[Bigbob]

38 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Are you trying to say that a decision on a case as high profile as Saville would not have been run past the boss ?

He can SAY that he didn't know anything about it but it's pretty inconceivable that it wasn't sent upstairs because of the magnitude of the implications.

In fact, I believe the Saville case was dropped precisely because of the pressure from on high. Too many people in high places would be brought down by the fallout. Which means Starmer would have been leaned on

Same as ditchy said Cyril Smith , Jimmy Savill too high profiles at the time , Be a bit different now . The fact they where made Sirs they where in favour with someone in power 

[oowee]

3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Are you trying to say that a decision on a case as high profile as Saville would not have been run past the boss ?

He can SAY that he didn't know anything about it but it's pretty inconceivable that it wasn't sent upstairs because of the magnitude of the implications.

In fact, I believe the Saville case was dropped precisely because of the pressure from on high. Too many people in high places would be brought down by the fallout. Which means Starmer would have been leaned on

So by implication he was not in charge then. 

Worrying state of affairs if we have govt intervention in the judicial process. It would be a gift for the opposition for Starmer to put any pressure into the public domain, particularly given his politics. Given the politics, the findings of Alison Levitt QC are more likely. 

[Rewulf]

On 16/10/2023 at 18:05, oowee said:

Savile was interviewed under caution in 2009, at which point the police consulted the CPS for guidance about allegations.

Sir Keir was not the lawyer responsible for the cases and has said he did not know about the failure to prosecute Savile until after the entertainer's death in 2011. He went on to appoint Alison Levitt QC, his principal legal adviser, to examine the decisions.

In the wake of a damning report which found failings on the part of the CPS and argued it “should have sought to ‘build’ a prosecution”, Sir Keir criticised his organisation’s handling of the cases and said her findings should represent a “watershed moment”.

Director of Public Prosecutions
In office 1 November 2008 – 1 November 2013 Kier Starmer

 

Hes admitted it happened on his watch, but has spun it round to blame everyone except himself, saying he didnt know anything about it 

Bearing in mind, it was widely known within the BBC and associated social circles that Saville was a sexual predator and pest, I find this hard to believe.
The only thing that does surprise me is that labour didnt appoint PIE advocate Harriet Harmon to run the inquiry.

[ditchman]

30 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Director of Public Prosecutions
In office 1 November 2008 – 1 November 2013 Kier Starmer

 

Hes admitted it happened on his watch, but has spun it round to blame everyone except himself, saying he didnt know anything about it 

Bearing in mind, it was widely known within the BBC and associated social circles that Saville was a sexual predator and pest, I find this hard to believe.
The only thing that does surprise me is that labour didnt appoint PIE advocate Harriet Harmon to run the inquiry.

That   PIE needs looking at.......................very very very strange affair

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, ditchman said:

That   PIE needs looking at.......................very very very strange affair

Some err, light reading for you....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26352378

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/westminster/part-g-paedophile-information-exchange/g2-pies-links-other-organisations.html

[Vince Green]

On 16/10/2023 at 19:16, ditchman said:

people seem to forget about Sir Cyril Smith...............KNOWN arch kiddy fiddler...and nothing was done even then....NOTHING

And Elvis. Nothing was ever said about him. Even after he died. Only now is it coming out. How many others?

Edited October 19, 2023 by Vince Green

[ditchman]

19 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

And Elvis. Nothing was ever said about him. Even after he died. Only now is it coming out. How many others?

"Uh-Huh..."

[armsid]

France has said it is very concerned about the immigrants in Paris and other major cities that are living there and do not /will not integrate into French society over fears the conflict in Israel /Gaza could cause .The same concerns could apply to all European countries that have immigrants that want to retain their own autonomy at all costs by ignoring the host nations generous hospitality and living separately to the local population with their own culture and language and spuoting hatred for us when things like this happen .This situation is not helped when our national broadcaster is not neutral and politicians take sides.

[Yellow Bear]

11 hours ago, armsid said:

situation is not helped when our national broadcaster and civil service are not neutral and politicians take sides.

Got it in one short comment with one addition