Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: If you are so sure of your opinion of me why do you continue to comment and ask questions of me on every BASC thread? Albeit to be fair, you have been quiet for several months on BASC threads, and the Konor account has come out of long dormancy filling the vacuum so to speak. You have at least one apology post to attend to Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted January 19 Author Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Konor said: I have not been dormant Conor , but perhaps you could substantiate that claim with the necessary dates or retract the statement. I will be expecting a retraction as your continual unsubstantiated claims cannot continue to go unchallenged so do the necessary checks then please get back to me promptly in the interests of accuracy and fairness. Edit to add I checked myself Conor 23 pages of activity and no dormant periods I expect an apology at the same time I also expect you to justify the belligerent BASC basher label you labelled me with by showing me posts prior to that to back up your claim. Should you fail to be able to do this I will expect another apology. If you were to spend some time checking you will find I have spent time on the forum contributing to various threads , mostly celebrating different aspects of the sport with like minded shooters. Facts aren’t your strong suit obviously and your inability to supply any in response to the questions I have raised is testament to that.You flatter yourself if you think I have come out of dormancy specifically to take you to task though I do think it is long overdue that someone did. You have spent your time on here mainly deflecting and filling your posts with pointless irrelevancies when it would be better spent addressing the issues that have been brought up in response to the statements you have made. You also have a tendency to flail around desperately trying to fill your posts with anything that avoids the points being raised it’s not a good look and reflects badly on you as I’m sure must be obvious to anyone reading through this thread. I will take you at your word that you have not been dormant on other places on this forum but I am sure you are a recent contributor to BASC threads - I would hardly not notice an account with the name Konor given my name is Conor suddenly appearing all over the BASC threads I post. As requested I apologise for suggesting your account was dormant generally. I am not going to apologise however for calling you out as a belligerent BASC basher for that is what you have been doing and neither am I going to spend time listing all the examples, it is clear for all to see. Whilst on the topic of apologies have you any to make yourself for all the unwarranted comments you have made about me personally? Edited January 19 by Conor O'Gorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) 7 hours ago, Teal said: I have just read the last couple of pages on here, and there are a couple of posts that I have removed. I understand there are strong feelings however, as always on the forum please be respectful of others. Thank you. Teal in the interests of fairness and accuracy could you please investigate claims made by Conor OGorman regarding his assertion that I have come out of a period of long dormancy presumably to personally attack him and his other claim that I had a history of being a belligerent BASC basher prior to that statement being made by him earlier in this thread. I have no wish to see the thread locked I just want posters to be accountable for the accuracy of their posts and be deterred from knowingly making false claims in their posts. Edited January 19 by Konor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: I will take you at your word that you have not been dormant on other places on this forum but you I am sure you are a recent contributor to BASC threads - I would hardly not notice an account with the name Konor given my name is Conor suddenly appearing all over the BASC threads I post. As requested I apologise for suggesting your account was dormant generally. I am not going to apologise however for calling you out as a belligerent BASC basher for that is what you have been doing and neither am I going to spend time listing all the examples, it is clear for all to see. Whilst on the topic of apologies have you any to make yourself for all the unwarranted comments you have made about me personally? There is no need to take me at my word go and check ,it’s what you should have done before posting and while you are doing so look up my posts prior to your claim that I am a belligerent BASC basher and either print your proof or apologise again. The criticisms I have made concerning your posts on this thread have been justified and refer to your continual refusal to reply to questions arising from posts you have made on this thread. So sorry but there will be no apologies forthcoming ( pun intended) Edited January 19 by Konor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted January 19 Author Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Konor said: That there have been no reference to any concessions being sought by BASC and that the main thrust of BASC’s position on the imposition of further legislation is that they disagree with it. If you were to read my posts you would see that you have little need to question , the content is plainly laid out. You should perhaps consider answering the questions I have raised instead of wasting your time deflecting attention away from my main points. As I have already stated circular arguments that fail to address the points made are a waste of both your time and mine I have referred you to BASC's consultation response numerous times. You still appear not to have read it given your continued questions but perhaps at this point expedient to summarise it (please don't take out of context, it is a distilled summary on a nuanced complex issue). BASC successfully pushed back last year against HSE proposals for a ban on lead airgun pellets and lead rifle ammunition for live quarry and target shooting. They revised their proposals and that was based on detailed evidence based arguments in our 2022 consultation response. Things do hang in the balance however for lead rifle ammo for live quarry despite the revised proposals and hopefully our evidence and others submitted recently will make the difference. The threat remains for a ban on lead shot for target shooting and we have presented detailed evidence in our 2023 consultation response against a ban. As regards a ban on lead shot for live quarry shooting we have presented detailed evidence for sufficient transition periods especially for smaller shotgun gauges. Click the link below for more details. https://basc.org.uk/basc-response-to-hse-lead-ammunition-consultation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 39 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: do you go beating? no do you have a gun dog for picking up? no do you actually shoot game? yes if so what type of days? rough shooting could you be kind enough to tell us the gun and choke cartridge combination that you use? No, I am not publishing details about firearms on a public forum. I will PM you that info. You should get a dog makes rough shooting so much more enjoyable 😊 thank you for your reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: I have referred you to BASC's consultation response numerous times. You still appear not to have read it given your continued questions but perhaps at this point expedient to summarise it (please don't take out of context, it is a distilled summary on a nuanced complex issue). BASC successfully pushed back last year against HSE proposals for a ban on lead airgun pellets and lead rifle ammunition for live quarry and target shooting. They revised their proposals and that was based on detailed evidence based arguments in our 2022 consultation response. Things do hang in the balance however for lead rifle ammo for live quarry despite the revised proposals and hopefully our evidence and others submitted recently will make the difference. The threat remains for a ban on lead shot for target shooting and we have presented detailed evidence in our 2023 consultation response against a ban. As regards a ban on lead shot for live quarry shooting we have presented detailed evidence for sufficient transition periods especially for smaller shotgun gauges. Click the link below for more details. https://basc.org.uk/basc-response-to-hse-lead-ammunition-consultation/ Too little too late Conor. I await your reply to my last post and I will be expecting a reply. I have read the document you refer to a few times , there was no information regarding any concessions for the use of old vintage shotguns or the use of lead over areas where circumstance dictated that few shots would be fired hence little lead deposited akin to the example I cited as being accepted in Norway as the grounds for going back to using lead shot. These are both questions I asked very early in this thread and were not answered by the document you referred to. Edited January 19 by Konor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Konor said: Too little too late Conor. I await your reply to my last post. I have watched this thread with great interest and for the last several pages it seem it is now at the stalemate stage and nothing seem likely to change the situation , I have also been a lifelong member of W A G B I / B A S C since 1964 and am now seriously thinking of throwing the towel in as it have certainly gone downhill with how this thread have been conducted and handled . sad state of affairs . M M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted January 19 Author Report Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Konor said: I don’t do any social media. As I don’t know anyone personally standing for election I don’t vote and I have never attended an AGM . Incidentally out of your 150000 membership what is your percentage turn out for such an event. As an aside instead of continually wasting time on issues that I have not brought up on the forum could you perhaps spend a fraction of that time in answering the questions I have posted and that I have posted from the beginning of this thread. Your whole approach is to evade having to discuss uncomfortable questions raised on the forum ,your presence in effect is pointless as all you post I assume can be accessed on the BASC website. Exactly why do you bother posting if you are not prepared to supply relevant feedback on issues raised from the content you post. As I have done you the courtesy of replying to your questions perhaps you can return the courtesy and reply to all of mine starting from the beginning of this thread. I await your reply with interest. Thanks. PW is social media and indeed easier for the media/antis to pick up on that via google searches than posts on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/TikTok etc so please keep that in mind. You asked about how many people vote in elections yet I provided you with a link to that. Yet again it seems you won't read what I send you but expect me to extract info for you. So, at the 2023 AGM the two new Council members were elected on 1046 and 927 votes respectively from BASC membership of approx 150,000. So you don't vote in BASC elections and don't engage in BASC AGMs. Yet they are the key ways to hold BASC to account if you are, as you say, a BASC member. Your recent spate of comments and questions on my posts on this forum will not hold BASC to account in the way that you are thinking from a governance perspective - do you understand that? Also, I would be interested in your feedback on the following comment/question I posed to you earlier: Does your club not have rules, committee meetings and an AGM. Do club members and committee members have phone calls? Me posting updates on PW as an individual and me answering questions is not a means of holding BASC to account. You really have the wrong end of the stick there. Again discussing your expectations of my activity on this forum was another topic for our phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, marsh man said: I have watched this thread with great interest and for the last several pages it seem it is now at the stalemate stage and nothing seem likely to change the situation , I have also been a lifelong member of W A G B I / B A S C since 1964 and am now seriously thinking of throwing the towel in as it have certainly gone downhill with how this thread have been conducted and handled . sad state of affairs . M M I would respectfully suggest and hope that you would reconsider if only to be able to raise any concerns you have about BASC from the position of being a member. Although I have been preoccupied with criticising Conor over his reluctance to give a straight answer to a straight question. Conor is not BASC and BASC is capable of doing a lot of sterling work on our behalf. To quote from a Lord Tennyson poem The Brook which I believe was used in some context by my regiment For men may come and men may go But I go on for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted January 19 Author Report Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Newbie to this said: BASC is nothing without it's membership, right? So surely you (BASC) should be accountable to the members, hence why people can't fathom why the membership was not consulted on what route BASC should take on the Lead ban (sorry voluntary phase out), that BASC spearheaded. BASC say they are the voice of shooting, but failed to even see if they are the voice of their membership. There has been almost 4 years of consultation on a voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting that has been encouraged by 9 organisations including BASC. Most recently there was a BASC survey to help inform plans ahead - did you submit a response to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: did you submit a response to that? Yes, but it's a bit late asking after the horse has bolted, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted January 19 Author Report Share Posted January 19 29 minutes ago, Konor said: Too little too late Conor. I await your reply to my last post and I will be expecting a reply. I have read the document you refer to a few times , there was no information regarding any concessions for the use of old vintage shotguns or the use of lead over areas where circumstance dictated that few shots would be fired hence little lead deposited akin to the example I cited as being accepted in Norway as the grounds for going back to using lead shot. These are both questions I asked very early in this thread and were not answered by the document you referred to. A reply to what exactly? I have answered all your questions. The concessions are about greater time frames for smaller gauges of shotguns. It matters not to the birds what shotgun fired the lead shot that they ate and died from. 6 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Yes, but it's a bit late asking after the horse has bolted, so to speak. Thanks for taking the time to respond nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HantsRob Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 7 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Question 1: Not steel shot - all non-lead shot and only for live quarry shooting. Question 2: I don't know but have asked at BASC and will report back in due course. Thankyou. I have no idea of impartiality of Cranfield, however it does add weight to a discussion. I appreciate your point on q2 that you will revert, however I also know that is only if there is something to report. Q1 clears up one of the questions in a sideways motion also. Interesting that CPSA are not in the cohort. But ,if BASC were part of a cohort, there is attribution to saying they suggested non-lead shot even if with others also. I am not going to pick that apart, your answer... well... answers. Thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Surely senior BACS staff have better things to do with their time than respond to the gripes and complaints of a minority of folk on here who seem to be obsessed with ancient history (eg John Swift) and the minority who use 410s etc. Maybe the moderators or admin need to intervene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: You asked about how many people vote in elections I actually asked how many people attended the AGM I don’t participate in BASC elections as I am not sufficiently acquainted with the candidates to judge who is best equipped to make the greatest contribution. Posting on here to draw attention to the perceived inadequacies may be pointless in your opinion from a governance perspective but I am quite happy to post my opinion here on pigeon watch regardless as it is a forum for discussion. My expectations of your contributions are irrelevant. You have wasted countless posts referring me to documents that do not answer the specific questions I have asked so maintaining that you lack time is hardly an argument. Perhaps if you managed your time on the forum more efficiently you would have the time to respond to specific questions with specific answers otherwise what is your purpose on being on the forum. Could you now please submit the quotes that were posted by me prior to being labelled a belligerent BASC basher to substantiate that claim or issue an apology. 30 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: do you understand that? Do you understand the above paragraph as I will be expecting an apology if you are unable to substantiate your claim. Edited January 19 by Konor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HantsRob Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) 6 minutes ago, grahamch said: Surely senior BACS staff have better things to do with their time than respond to the gripes and complaints of a minority of folk on here who seem to be obsessed with ancient history (eg John Swift) and the minority who use 410s etc. Maybe the moderators or admin need to intervene? Graham, I am not sure moderating a public forum where anyone can choose to post or indeed not post is in its best interest. In addition, Conor has made it clear he is posting as an individual and not as a member of BASC staff. I think the obsession is more due to not getting replies to questions that are pertinent and affect the current and future state of affairs in shooting, and sometimes decisions from the past influence the current situation. I also think those who shoot 410's are equally entitled to ask a question in a public forum, and I certainly believe most of the questions in this thread are not 410 related. I don't believe that chats should be closed because one side of the discussion doesn't like how it goes. It also looks like Teal is monitoring the thread so it is being viewed. It does feel a little circular now though, but one persons gripe is another mans passion. Edited January 19 by HantsRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) 15 minutes ago, grahamch said: Surely senior BACS staff have better things to do with their time than respond to the gripes and complaints of a minority of folk on here who seem to be obsessed with ancient history (eg John Swift) and the minority who use 410s etc. Maybe the moderators or admin need to intervene? Aren’t you the gentlemen who called for the thread to be locked earlier ? Can I state the obvious and say that no one is obliged to contribute to this thread and if the questions raised at the beginning of this thread had been answered immediately we would not now be on page 9 If you have something of value to contribute then please do so but it seems that you are only concerned with having threads locked. Are you perhaps the troll that Scully warned me about earlier if so perhaps you should take your own advice and evolve into someone who makes a positive contribution. Incidentally are you suggesting that .410 users should not be able to voice an opinion on legislation that will affect them the most. Edited January 19 by Konor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 13 minutes ago, grahamch said: Surely senior BACS staff have better things to do with their time than respond to the gripes and complaints of a minority of folk I think that is exactly the problem and here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, grahamch said: Surely senior BACS staff have better things to do with their time than respond to the gripes and complaints of a minority of folk on here who seem to be obsessed with ancient history (eg John Swift) and the minority who use 410s etc. Maybe the moderators or admin need to intervene? BASC and its representatives post on here of their own free will, and Conor IS a representative. He posts all manner of BASC related matter, so is posting as a representative; he doesn’t post on any other topics, and often creates new topics specifically related with news of what BASC are doing. He can’t expect not to be questioned or indeed criticised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 17 minutes ago, grahamch said: and the minority who use 410s etc. Many of this 'minority' use .410s due to poor health largely due to old age. .410s are the only way they can continue in their chosen sport. Do you suggest we just throw them on the scrapheap along with the .410s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 38 minutes ago, Konor said: Could you now please submit the quotes that were posted by me prior to being labelled a belligerent BASC basher to substantiate that claim or issue an apology. Conor I can only surmise that you are hoping that this thread will be locked thus saving you the embarrassment of offering an apology . If this proves to be the case gentlemanly conduct dictates that you should pm me that apology and I will ensure that it is forwarded to the pigeon watch regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 13 hours ago, Konor said: Thanks for taking the time to address simplifying the content of my posts to clarify any issues for those who haven’t the stamina to read through the whole thread. It’s been frustrating at times to say the least. My last post was an attempt to gather my points together ,or repeat myself ad nauseum if you go along with Conor’s interpretation. The main thrust of what I am saying is that despite all the expertise at BASC’s disposal and despite all the time that has been available to tackle the problem of lead ammunition use here we are far down the five year voluntary ban road and little effort has been made to propose compromise that would see the main concern of tons of lead deposited in small areas dealt with while allowing the use of lead in circumstances that would see comparatively little lead spread over a wide area and as a consequence create a niche for all those old short chambered vintage weapons unsuited to the use of steel shot. For example if I’m off to the foreshore I’m taking a 3 1/2 inch magnum 12 and heavy load stee If I’m off to a driven shoot I’m taking my over and under multichke with either steel shot or bismuth if I’m wealthy enough to afford it. If I’m out for a wander with the dog to bag a rabbit and perhaps a brace of pheasant and a woodcock I am free to use lead shot in my old Damascus barrelled shotgun or my 2 1/2 inch chambered .410 or any of a multitude of old vintage 16s or 20s unsuited to the use of steel shot both from the gun’s and the quarry’s perspective. This lack of vision from those representing our best interests is my main concern. It seems that the only way forward is reflected in the polarisation of opinion with resulting arguing both amongst ourselves and with those against us when it should be about dealing with the problem and minimising the risk of depositing lead shot into the environment while allowing a limited amount of lead use under limited circumstances that permit us to continue enjoying using the old vintage shotguns this country had a world wide reputation of producing. Let compromise take up the main ground of our argument and let’s consign the intolerance from both extremes of the argument to the margins where it belongs. I’m sure Conor will be along soon to discredit any such approach to the problem as unrealistic or naive, his perspective seems to promote appeasement as a means of securing shootings future or should that perhaps be securing BASC’s future. Konor Sorry if im missing it but what are the questions you want answering ? I get you and many feel sold down the river but what actual questions are you wanting answering ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 27 minutes ago, jall25 said: Konor Sorry if im missing it but what are the questions you want answering ? I get you and many feel sold down the river but what actual questions are you wanting answering ? If you read through my posts they are actually mentioned a few times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Konor said: If you read through my posts they are actually mentioned a few times Honestly i have tried but they are just swamped Honestly im not trying to wind you up - can you not just ask them in 1 or 2 lines ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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