Weird Symptoms

[serrac]

Wondering if anyone has seen anything like this.

My 10 year old lab Louie has been in generally good health, until a week or so ago.
We first noticed he was ignoring his usual dry food, and though still willing to eat his favourites like cooked chicken there's no real enthusiasm even for that.
He generally looks miserable, with a lot of trembling and twitching while at rest.

He hadn't improved by this weekend I took him to the vet yesterday (Monday) morning.
She didn't find anything obvious wrong with him on examination, though she remarked he tensed up a bit when she was examining his abdomen.
She took a blood test and told me she would call later in the day with the results.

After we got home I noticed him flinching if I put my hand near his head and he gave a yelp when I accidentally brushed the side of his cheek, so definitely some pain going on there.

I'm not impressed with the vet as I didn't get the expected call yesterday and called several times today asking about the blood test results; "she's in a consultation and will call you when she's free".  I finally got to speak with a different vet after 6pm today.  She said the blood work did not show anything abnormal but when I mentioned Louie is now showing obvious signs of being in pain she said she'd write a prescription for an NSAID for me to pick up tomorrow.

I'd stayed on late at work to wait for the call and when I got home, Louie was lying next to the front door and had to get up to let me in. 
He lay down again and the curtain brushed against the top of his head which was enough to make him cry out in pain. 

I'm annoyed with the vet because if they'd called me yesterday he could have been on the pain killers a day earlier.

Because of the twitching while he's at rest I've been wondering if this is a neurological condition. 
The other things I've been thinking about are an ear infection or maybe an abscess somewhere on his head - something causes him a lot of pain with even a slight touch.

Strangely, in spite of all the above he's still eating and drinking and ready to go out for walks and you'd hardly guess he has an issue when we're out.  He walks along at a decent  pace with his tail up and swaying side to side, and he stops every few yards for a sniff and pee like he's always done.  But you can see him flinch if a twig or something brushes against his face or head.

It does feel like we're heading to the point of losing him, he looks so miserable in the house and his condition seems to be going in the wrong direction. 
I won't keep him going too long in this state unless there's a diagnosis with an optimistic prognosis.

Anyway I just wanted to share and see if anyone had any ideas what might be going on with him.

Cheers

[clangerman]

sounds like she’s not taking it seriously enough to me I would seek the services of another vet asap good luck with him 

[JohnfromUK]

Just a thought - could it be a tooth problem?

[Arley]

Need to see another vet asap, hopefully a tooth abscess but needs investigating 

Good luck and fingers crossed a better vet will find and then treat the problem

[old'un]

Animals have a very high pain threshold, unlike humans, if your dog is showing pain then you can bet it really is painful, you say he seems reluctant to eat and shows signs of pain when touched around the head, as been said the fist thing I would look at is any possible gum/teeth problems such as an abscess as the infection can spread along his jaw and to other areas of his head and neck, if all looks okay then your vet should be looking at an x-ray or scan to see if there are any problems with bone, muscle’s or brain.

As for the trembling and twitching while at rest/sleeping, most dogs do this but if you think its unusually excessive (more than dog dreaming) then your vet needs to find out why, it maybe just an infection of some sort which will require some antibiotics.

 

Hope you get it sorted.

[mgsontour]

7 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Just a thought - could it be a tooth problem?

I think this too

[serrac]

Thanks for all the replies guys, appreciated.

Had a bit of a scare last night as Louie started howling after I put him down for the night. 
I wanted to phone the vet emergency line but my wife was concerned they'd just put him in a cage and leave him until the morning so I agreed we'd let him sleep in our bedroom and I'd call them if I thought he was in too much distress whatever the time of night that was.  As it turned out he seemed to sleep OK most of the night with no issues.

I collected his prescription from the vet before work today and managed to get the first dose into him.
Fortunately I was working from home today because it became apparent he was suffering badly again, so I phoned the vet and got an appointment before lunch.

It was a different vet this time and she was very good with him (to be fair the first one was too).  She managed to exam all around his head which he wouldn't even let me near.  I asked whether she thought he had toothache or an ear infection but she said there were no signs of that, (though I know from experience a small abscess at the root of a tooth can be excruciating without causing obvious swelling or redness, as can a deep ear infection).

Her opinion is that the issue is neurological, maybe just inflammation of the cranial nerves but also possibly the result of a stroke as there's a lot of jerking and flinching over his whole body.  She prescribed an opioid painkiller which she said is especially good for nerve pain.

I managed to get at least a partial dose into him at lunchtime, I opened the capsules and sprinkled the contents over juicy pieces of chicken, he ate the first few bits and refused the rest, obviously not liking the taste.  Even the partial dose appears to have helped, he's been much calmer this afternoon and ate his dinner with more enthusiasm than the last few days.

We agreed I'd keep him on both medications for the next week then go back for a review.

I also have some Noroclav tablets left over from a previous issue which I'm giving him just in case there is a bacterial infection going on somewhere - vets seem to give these things out like smarties so I presume they can only help.
 
Hopefully things will improve but she said it could go the other way too if he has in fact had a stroke.

Thanks again for your concern and suggestions.
 

[12gauge82]

On 07/02/2024 at 18:28, serrac said:

Thanks for all the replies guys, appreciated.

Had a bit of a scare last night as Louie started howling after I put him down for the night. 
I wanted to phone the vet emergency line but my wife was concerned they'd just put him in a cage and leave him until the morning so I agreed we'd let him sleep in our bedroom and I'd call them if I thought he was in too much distress whatever the time of night that was.  As it turned out he seemed to sleep OK most of the night with no issues.

I collected his prescription from the vet before work today and managed to get the first dose into him.
Fortunately I was working from home today because it became apparent he was suffering badly again, so I phoned the vet and got an appointment before lunch.

It was a different vet this time and she was very good with him (to be fair the first one was too).  She managed to exam all around his head which he wouldn't even let me near.  I asked whether she thought he had toothache or an ear infection but she said there were no signs of that, (though I know from experience a small abscess at the root of a tooth can be excruciating without causing obvious swelling or redness, as can a deep ear infection).

Her opinion is that the issue is neurological, maybe just inflammation of the cranial nerves but also possibly the result of a stroke as there's a lot of jerking and flinching over his whole body.  She prescribed an opioid painkiller which she said is especially good for nerve pain.

I managed to get at least a partial dose into him at lunchtime, I opened the capsules and sprinkled the contents over juicy pieces of chicken, he ate the first few bits and refused the rest, obviously not liking the taste.  Even the partial dose appears to have helped, he's been much calmer this afternoon and ate his dinner with more enthusiasm than the last few days.

We agreed I'd keep him on both medications for the next week then go back for a review.

I also have some Noroclav tablets left over from a previous issue which I'm giving him just in case there is a bacterial infection going on somewhere - vets seem to give these things out like smarties so I presume they can only help.
 
Hopefully things will improve but she said it could go the other way too if he has in fact had a stroke.

Thanks again for your concern and suggestions.
 

Any update on your dog. Sorry I can't suggest causes, but I've always found meat paste to very good for getting tablets into dogs, it's very cheap and if you cover the entire tablet in a decent size lump, dogs will swallow them with no fuss, especially if you have a second piece without a tablet ready as soon as the dogs had the first.

[serrac]

On 16/02/2024 at 20:52, 12gauge82 said:

Any update on your dog. Sorry I can't suggest causes, but I've always found meat paste to very good for getting tablets into dogs, it's very cheap and if you cover the entire tablet in a decent size lump, dogs will swallow them with no fuss, especially if you have a second piece without a tablet ready as soon as the dogs had the first.

Sorry, been meaning to post an update.

The Gabapentin seemed to resolve the neurological pain in a couple of days, he now has no issues with being touched or petted around his head.

Unfortunately he was left with a constant gnawing pain somewhere which he couldn't seem to escape from.

I took him back to the vet on Tuesday and they upped the dose of gabapentin and added in another analgesic, which they said was similar to paracetamol, but dog safe. That didn't touch the pain either, and the next few days were rough, with him crying most of the time, especially when trying to rest.

We got to the point where we were discussing having him euthanised just to put him out of the pain, but I have a suspicion he might have something like a tooth abscess, and wouldn't want to have him put to sleep over an issue that might be readily treatable.

On the first visit the vet suggested we might refer him to a neurologist in Stirling who has access to MRI facilities. I checked with Louie's insurance and they said they would (probably) cover an MRI scan, so Louie has an assessment appointment tomorrow (Mon 18th), with the MRI happening on Tuesday if indicated.

I asked the vet if they could give him anything else to keep him comfortable until then and they put him on Tramadol.  He got his first dose on Friday night and slept all night with no crying.  He cried for a while before and after the next dose, but a couple of long walks helped him manage the pain better until the Tramadol kicked in again.

He was fine again last night, he seemed to spend a lot of time walking around the house during the night, but no crying so I think he's maybe dealing with side effects of the various medications he's on rather than in pain. 

Gabapentin has given him ataxia and he staggers about and falls over from time to time, that's expected to resolve with time even if he stays on the Gabapentin which I hope won't be the case.

So that's where we are at the moment, his pain is thankfully much better controlled for now and we have the prospect of a proper diagnosis so we can make informed decisions about his future.

Thanks for your interest 👍

[JohnfromUK]

I hope you manage to get it resolved.  Worrying and stressful times when they are ill and from uncertain causes.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, serrac said:

Sorry, been meaning to post an update.

The Gabapentin seemed to resolve the neurological pain in a couple of days, he now has no issues with being touched or petted around his head.

Unfortunately he was left with a constant gnawing pain somewhere which he couldn't seem to escape from.

I took him back to the vet on Tuesday and they upped the dose of gabapentin and added in another analgesic, which they said was similar to paracetamol, but dog safe. That didn't touch the pain either, and the next few days were rough, with him crying most of the time, especially when trying to rest.

We got to the point where we were discussing having him euthanised just to put him out of the pain, but I have a suspicion he might have something like a tooth abscess, and wouldn't want to have him put to sleep over an issue that might be readily treatable.

On the first visit the vet suggested we might refer him to a neurologist in Stirling who has access to MRI facilities. I checked with Louie's insurance and they said they would (probably) cover an MRI scan, so Louie has an assessment appointment tomorrow (Mon 18th), with the MRI happening on Tuesday if indicated.

I asked the vet if they could give him anything else to keep him comfortable until then and they put him on Tramadol.  He got his first dose on Friday night and slept all night with no crying.  He cried for a while before and after the next dose, but a couple of long walks helped him manage the pain better until the Tramadol kicked in again.

He was fine again last night, he seemed to spend a lot of time walking around the house during the night, but no crying so I think he's maybe dealing with side effects of the various medications he's on rather than in pain. 

Gabapentin has given him ataxia and he staggers about and falls over from time to time, that's expected to resolve with time even if he stays on the Gabapentin which I hope won't be the case.

So that's where we are at the moment, his pain is thankfully much better controlled for now and we have the prospect of a proper diagnosis so we can make informed decisions about his future.

Thanks for your interest 👍

Sorry to hear of this and I think your right to explore all the options first before doing anything drastic. With regards paracetamol, if it's dosed correctly it's safe for most dogs and saves expensive prescriptions, although in your dogs case it doesn't sound like it's touching its pain anyway.

Everything crossed for you both.

[serrac]

Thanks guys, the main thing is he's resting peacefully just now with no signs of distress.
Hopefully we can keep him that way and get some answers this week.

[bruno22rf]

Good luck with a diagnosis and cure, I think an infection would show in the blood test so I doubt that it's a tooth/dental issue. Another blood test might be worth a punt just in case any infection was in it's early stages and didn't show though?

[serrac]

Sadly we had to say goodbye to Louie today.
He had a MRI scan which revealed he had multiple tumours on his brain.
It wasn't a difficult decision as he had deteriorated markedly over the weekend and the vet said he would probably only have survived a few more days anyway.
 

 

 

[Sempers]

Sorry to hear that Serrac, its plain to see you did the best for him to the end and should take comfort in that.

[Poor Shot]

Sorry to hear that Serrac. You did the best you could for him.

[clangerman]

shame when it turns out this way take comfort from the memories he leaves you with 

[ditchman]

i like the care you have for your animal.........

my kids always complained that i brought the dogs up like children and the children like dogs...

 

it must be a relief for you now it is over........

all the best

 

simon

[JKD]

There's never a good time, but always the right time.

I feel your sorrow,,,, RIP Louie.

[JohnfromUK]

Very sorry to hear, but as others have said, you did your best and sadly no more could be done.

[old'un]

sorry to hear you had to let your best mate go, never easy I know, I had to have my last dog put down because of cancer, he was only 7.

 

[Miserableolgit]

Very sorry to read this, take comfort you did your best for him.

[serrac]

Thanks guys for the kind words.
It's good to know that even though I've had fairly heated disagreements with some of you in the past, when it comes to something like this I'm still among friends.

I must admit that even though he's gone I'm still haunted by the pain he must have endured towards the end, and can't help wishing I'd done some things differently.
If I'd taken up the suggestion to refer him for a scan a week earlier, or pushed the vet earlier and harder to put him on Tramadol, I might have saved him a few days of suffering.  Can't change anything now but the thought still hurts.

I do take some comfort from the fact his final decline wasn't a long drawn out affair - just a month or so ago he was enjoying himself far too much hump-shredding his bed 😛

[JKD]

Don't beat yourself up over your decisions,,,, you were doing your very best in the circumstances. Just dwell on the great memories and happy times, like his bedroom antics 🙂

[12gauge82]

So sorry to read this. You gave your dog the best care anyone possibly could. The only one suffering now is you after doing your dog a kindness. I've no doubt you cared for your dog to the same exceptional standard while he was fit as you did while he was ill. Try to focus on the good times, I know there will have been many.