Farage

[Stonepark]

8 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Genuine, non-snarky question; How big an issue is Putin/Russia/Ukraine with the electorate, really?  I think it scores pretty low outside London. 

The reality is, what happens in Ukraine is determined by the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, not 10 Downing St.

Incidentally, don't forget Tice was driving in an 'aid convoy' to Ukraine a few months back, for which he got much stick (rightly IMHO).

🤣  First electoral mandate she's had.

 

 

It is low as most people have no inteest in wars funded by USA/Nato and the hype thrown about by Government and MSM is made to look like Russia is going to invade the whole of Europe, when in truth they are not the country with 160+ military bases spread throughout the world and who move offensive missle systems and soldiers right up to other countries borders!

Ukraine has been determined by the occupant of 1000 Colonial Farm Road, Langley, Fairfax County, Virginia, since 2013 when they threw over $10billion at minority nationalist element to overthrow the democratically elected Russian friendly government.

Yes, Tice got a lot of stick both internally and externally and backed off from doing similar again!

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

I read that three more Reform candidate's have come out in support of Russia. Maria Zakharova also endorses Farage today (Russian Defence ministry), an illuminating endorsement. 

I read that the Labour Party is full of anti-semites and people who support Hamas. Every political party has its share of idiots - Corbyn, Abbott, Swinney, Sturgeon, Drakeford, Davey, Lucas, Milliband, Elphicke, Menzies, Hancock and many more.

[12gauge82]

Not to mention Germany who continues to buy huge volumes of Russian gas, or their recent blocking of a plan by the EU to ban the buying or movement through the EU of Russian liquid natural gas.

[udderlyoffroad]

Surely not Germany, that leading player in the paragon of virtue that is the EU?

Ironically, the only thing they've done to reduce their dependence on Russian gas is to burn yet more filthy lignite coal, massively increasing their emissions...

Tell me again how turning away from the madness of Net Zero somehow is Putin's desire?  

If you truly wanted to reduce your emissions you would be doing everything you can to get away from lignite and back to that luvvverly clean burning Rusky gas.  Oh, wait...

[12gauge82]

The smear campaign against farage by the MSM is huge, they are attempting to crucify him for pointing out facts, facts that our political class are too afraid, often due to their own vested interests to speak of. I think this is a water shed moment, the public has finally had enough and if the establishment doesn't start making changes, reform is going to continue to grow until it takes power.

[Gordon R]

udderlyoffroad - I see the dilemma for Germany. Preach to others what needs to be done, but quietly ignore it and do what they want to do.

Whether USA / Nato encouraged Putin or not - Putin took advantage of some poor leadership and invaded a country, where the resident population had done nothing wrong. Hundreds of thousands have died on both sides, because of the leadership of the two countries. Neither leader comes out with any credit in my book.

I think Putin is power mad and trying to rebuild the old Soviet Union. I think Zelensky is a lightweight, totally out of his depth. When peace does come - and it must - I would not be surprised to see a fair number of Ukrainians under investigation for misusing the foreign aid and Zelensky toppled.

Aside from that, the "stop Farage" movement is slightly scary. The MSM could give Russia a run for their money in propaganda.

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

I read that three more Reform candidate's have come out in support of Russia. Maria Zakharova also endorses Farage today (Russian Defence ministry), an illuminating endorsement. 

How convenient that Reform is not set up as a political party and as a company can hide its income. 

A vote for Farage looks more like a vote for Putin everyday. 

An interesting message from Nigel Farage regarding msm election interference.

 

[johnphilip]

5 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I read that the Labour Party is full of anti-semites and people who support Hamas. Every political party has its share of idiots - Corbyn, Abbott, Swinney, Sturgeon, Drakeford, Davey, Lucas, Milliband, Elphicke, Menzies, Hancock and many more.

Here you go Gordon  labour MPs supporting  Palestine. 

https://www.youtube.com/live/CpHoeRYCiNU?si=5R9HlfQz8dq5N8wK

[Gordon R]

Decent video from Nigel Farage.

[Penelope]

 

[Raja Clavata]

Agree with his assessment of the Tories.

Find the bit about not believing the lies of others whilst also mentioning the 8 year anniversary of a bunch of porky pies spouted by himself a bit much.

He set the precedence for he who lies the best wins.

[Gordon R]

Perhaps you could list all his lies and the evidence of alleged racism. Then again - perhaps not.

[Zoli 12 guage]

55 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Agree with his assessment of the Tories.

Find the bit about not believing the lies of others whilst also mentioning the 8 year anniversary of a bunch of porky pies spouted by himself a bit much.

He set the precedence for he who lies the best wins.

maybe you ought to give your head a big shake and ask yourself the question "which set of cretins gave the country "the vote" AND THEN, didn't carry through the mandate they got to the satisfaction of the country that gave them it ??????????"

BECAUSE,secretly,they didn't believe in it because,just like the lie bore party,they are all for the "big state" of Europe and everything that Davos proposes.

A MASSIVE CLUE👍

it wasn't Mr Farage!!!!!!!

[Raja Clavata]

33 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Perhaps you could list all his lies and the evidence of alleged racism. Then again - perhaps not.

You got something right for a change. For the record I did not allege racism, I shared a personal perception that apparently only you took great exception to. The lies are well documented. 

[Gordon R]

Man up - you hinted strongly that Farage is a racist, but hadn't the courage to come out and say it.

[Mungler]

6 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Man up - you hinted strongly that Farage is a racist, but hadn't the courage to come out and say it.

It’s an interesting quirk of the passage of time.

20 years ago everyone had increasing concerns about uncontrolled immigration; who were we letting in, will they speak English, how will they behave, where would they live and so on. Not unreasonable questions, but at the time even to think them would get you branded a racist. As a result, there was no discussion and anyone attempting to promote discussion or concern was branded a racist.

Scroll on 20 years and the pendulum is now swinging back - all political parties feel brave enough to tiptoe towards a conversation about uncontrolled mass immigration 😆

Yvette Cooper is writing today in the Telegraph about Labour’s planned tough stance on immigration - no one right minded will believe a word of it of course.

However, and the point is this, the open conversations now being had across all parties are the very same conversations Farage promoted 20 years ago and for which he was irretrievably branded a racist.

Funny old thing the passage of time.

[Raja Clavata]

8 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Man up - you hinted strongly that Farage is a racist, but hadn't the courage to come out and say it.

It’s not about manning up or courage. There is no point entering into lengthy discourse with an individual who by default views anyone with a different opinion to him as an idiot.

You have a repeated history of banging on and on about something that someone has said or implied. Bit one dimensional and ever so tedious.

Why don’t you just google the topic and post your counter arguments, someone somewhere might respect your opinion and retort.

By the way you know your idea on Mars is genius, you should consider floating it with someone like Elon Musk. 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

t’s not about manning up or courage. There is no point entering into lengthy discourse with an individual who by default views anyone with a different opinion to him as an idiot.

OK, would you consider answering me about about why you think Farage is racist ?

If its about his view on immigration, fair enough, but as has been said, the main parties all agree it needs serious curtailment,  and they can't all be racist because of that ?

Is there something you've read or heard that makes you think he or his party are inherently racist ?

[Raja Clavata]

What makes you think you're a special case 😛 

The issue here is that I'll reply to you and then we all know who will jump on it, but since you asked...

I shared a personal perception and in general that is founded on my instinctive feeling that he is not the person he presents himself as, in a number of ways.

This is not something I have dedicated lots of time or thought to and I'm certainly not preparing evidence for a CPS or ICC trial on the topic.

Here's some articles from a quick search (my first search on the topic, for the record):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2024/jun/14/he-was-a-deeply-unembarrassed-racist-nigel-farage-by-those-who-have-known-him

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farages-most-controversial-moments-ukip-brexit-b1122381.html

https://www.adambienkov.co.uk/p/nigel-farage-and-the-taboo-of-calling

https://northeastbylines.co.uk/news/opinion/assessment-of-farage-and-reform-uk/

Now I appreciate these are articles from left leaning publications.

Don't get me wrong some of the points he raises are valid in my opinion. But let's not get into that for all our sakes.

Now, we could get into a philosophical discussion about personal bias, introspective opinions on one self and the relative perception of you to others. To some extent I suspect we all harbour biases that others could interpret as racist. My GF for examples thinks I'm far more racist than I believe I am.

But that's not the point here, I can be transparent with my views on most, not all, topics related to racism, I raise doubt over whether Farage can truly claim the same.

 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2024/jun/14/he-was-a-deeply-unembarrassed-racist-nigel-farage-by-those-who-have-known-him

Great link , highly entertaining !

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

https://www.adambienkov.co.uk/p/nigel-farage-and-the-taboo-of-calling

That ones just bonkers !

RACIST RACIST RACISTS, everyones a RACIST 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

https://northeastbylines.co.uk/news/opinion/assessment-of-farage-and-reform-uk/

Now this bit is interesting  'For instance, approximately 10% of Reform candidates are Facebook friends with the Fascist leader of the New British Union.'

Interesting because, the leader of the NBU is a fruitloop, and Ive checked his Facebook, there are lots of people on there who appear to be Reform supporters or candidates.
You would think Reform would be on top of this , and at least a posthumous 'unfriend' would be taking place ?
And media coverage of how 'racist/fascist they all are seems a little light in the media ?

Northeast bylines pulls no punches though.

'Let us not beat about the bush, Farage is one of the most divisive, sexist, xenophobic, Islamophobes in British politics today.

Is he racist though?'

Err , did you not just call him one ?

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Now I appreciate these are articles from left leaning publications.

Really ? 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Don't get me wrong some of the points he raises are valid in my opinion. But let's not get into that for all our sakes.

Now, we could get into a philosophical discussion about personal bias, introspective opinions on one self and the relative perception of you to others. To some extent I suspect we all harbour biases that others could interpret as racist. My GF for examples thinks I'm far more racist than I believe I am.

But that's not the point here, I can be transparent with my views on most, not all, topics related to racism, I raise doubt over whether Farage can truly claim the same.

Personally, I think theres very few people in this country, maybe even the in the world, who arent a bit racist, whatever that word means these days, so I wouldnt beat yourself up about it.
What annoys me is that the left predominantly only seems to recognise 'white' racism, whiles the hatred among our darker cousins is ignored.
My ex wife (Pakistani) and her family were quite free with their (to my mind) horrifically racist views, literally anyone who was not in their sphere was fair game, the English were barbarians, with no culture, and only useful for their genetics to whiten the offspring. I got out after a year.
But I digress, the fact is , believing that uncontrolled immigration, from ANYWHERE, does not a racist make, and Farage being painted as a racist, just because he believes the borders need controlling better, simply doesnt fit the mould of a classic racist.

No matter what the haters try to paint him as.

Edited Tuesday at 12:28 by Rewulf

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Personally, I think theres very few people in this country, maybe even the in the world, who arent a bit racist, whatever that word means these days, so I wouldnt beat yourself up about it.

I'm not beating myself up about anything but I think the self appointed sage of Rotherham (is it Rotherham?) is trying to 🙂 

What annoys me is that the left predominantly only seems to recognise 'white' racism, whiles the hatred among our darker cousins is ignored.

Is that really a "left" thing or are you just obsessed about the left?

My ex wife (Pakistani) and her family were quite free with their (to my mind) horrifically racist views, literally anyone who was not in their sphere was fair game, the English were barbarians, with no culture, and only useful for their genetics to whiten the offspring. I got out after a year.

I concur that in my experience people I'd consider to be of ethnic origin are undoubtedly amongst the most rabid racists I have ever met. I've witnessed it on various occasions in Africa and Asia, where they are obvious native, and it's far worse than you see here in the UK.

But none of that is either relevant or a valid counter to a public figure like Farage.

But I digress, the fact is , believing that uncontrolled immigration, from ANYWHERE, does not a racist make, and Farage being painted as a racist, just because he believes the borders need controlling better, simply doesnt fit the mould of a classic racist.

No matter what the haters try to paint him as.

So, are you saying he's a reformed racist, a well behaved racist or is not a racist?

Anyway, we're not supposed to discuss racism. But, of course, it's a great diversion from discussing more topical subjects like the public ding dong between Farage and Boris. I wish I knew a fan-boy of both who I could ask what side they take. Know of anyone?

[Rewulf]

20 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Is that really a "left" thing or are you just obsessed about the left?

Yes its most definitely a 'left' thing 
And no Im not obsessed about it , its the left obsessed by the right (or as they refer to it , the far right  ) , and you can test that any way you like.

 

22 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

But none of that is either relevant or a valid counter to a public figure like Farage.

Its absolutely relevant, if people cannot recognise the level of hatred within themselves, how can they possibly recognise it within someone theyve never met ?
I was always taught, if you have no self respect, how can you respect others ?

 

25 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

So, are you saying he's a reformed racist, a well behaved racist or is not a racist?

I dont think he is , or was ever , a racist.
He had controversial views , by his own admission he liked to debate, and he pushed that debate hard , often too hard, to provoke a reaction.

 

28 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Anyway, we're not supposed to discuss racism. But, of course, it's a great diversion from discussing more topical subjects like the public ding dong between Farage and Boris. I wish I knew a fan-boy of both who I could ask what side they take. Know of anyone?

Boris has always been there for himself, its not always a bad thing, but we need to recognise that Boris has been guilty of the old Starmer style flip flop, direction changing tactic when it suited him.
And unfortunately (and this is not really being reported on) Farage got him bang to rights on Ukraine.
Farage is under fire for a saying the EU provoked Russia into war, yet Boris said exactly the same thing in 2016, and no one flinched.
Then Boris's dire warning gets completely shelved when he headed over there in 2022 to scupper any peace agreement ?
For consistency and general integrity, Farage wins every time.

[Raja Clavata]

15 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Yes its most definitely a 'left' thing 
And no Im not obsessed about it , its the left obsessed by the right (or as they refer to it , the far right  ) , and you can test that any way you like.

Well, I don't know how much credit to give it but I just did the britainschoice test online and it returned the verdict that I'm a backbone conservative. It takes about 3 minutes, why don't you do it, I'd be interested in the result?

Its absolutely relevant, if people cannot recognise the level of hatred within themselves, how can they possibly recognise it within someone theyve never met ?
I was always taught, if you have no self respect, how can you respect others ?

Regarding the never met point, we're not discussing a member of the public selected randomly to assess on the basis of a personal statement here. Also, if the never met point holds then only people who've met him would validly be able to claim he's not racist. But how many times or for how long would you have had to been in his person to valid conclude that? I'm not getting your line of reasoning / logic with that point.

I think we've agreed on the point of inherent bias in all of us. Isn't the first point self awareness though, which is different to self respect?

I dont think he is , or was ever , a racist.
He had controversial views , by his own admission he liked to debate, and he pushed that debate hard , often too hard, to provoke a reaction.

We have no way of really knowing, I hope you're right and I was wrong.

Boris has always been there for himself, its not always a bad thing, but we need to recognise that Boris has been guilty of the old Starmer style flip flop, direction changing tactic when it suited him.
And unfortunately (and this is not really being reported on) Farage got him bang to rights on Ukraine.
Farage is under fire for a saying the EU provoked Russia into war, yet Boris said exactly the same thing in 2016, and no one flinched.
Then Boris's dire warning gets completely shelved when he headed over there in 2022 to scupper any peace agreement ?
For consistency and general integrity, Farage wins every time.

I agree on the consistency and general integrity point, but crikey, what a low baseline of comparison.

I was right about Boris though.

 

[12gauge82]

49 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

I took it and it said progressive activists, whoever they are. When I read up on them it didn't seem to fit my thoughts at all 🤔

[Raja Clavata]

15 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I took it and it said progressive activists, whoever they are. When I read up on them it didn't seem to fit my thoughts at all 🤔

Interesting.

Perhaps it highlights that in the complex world of today trying to pigeon hole people into one category is flawed - given the overlap between the groups on key topics, the detailed report kind of hints at this too.

Of course it does serve the populist identity politics agenda very well though.

Thanks for sharing👍