vw job losses

[armsid]

Before anyone says it is none of our concern how will VW job losses and maybe Mercedes affect us here in the UK plus the other job losses at Tata Steel in Port Talbot?

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, armsid said:

Before anyone says it is none of our concern how will VW job losses and maybe Mercedes affect us here in the UK plus the other job losses at Tata Steel in Port Talbot?

There’s an ill wind blowing and it’s coming this way. 

The usual suspects will be along to blame Brexit of course, not the daft green eco net zero disease that’s forced a German car industry to abandon 100 years R&D in combustion technology and to start again 10 years behind cheaper and EV tech advanced Chinese competition.

Ford Europe will be next - as an observation they haven’t made a car I’d consider buying for well over a decade now and the Mustang EV is an over priced abomination they will struggle to give away. 
.

Edited September 21 by Mungler

[Gordon R]

Maybe VW and Ford could consider WFH. You know it makes sense.

[Weihrauch17]

Net Zero will kill all Manufacturing industry, it is National suicide that none of us can afford and for what?????

[Mungler]

5 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Net Zero will kill all Manufacturing industry, it is National suicide that none of us can afford and for what?????

It all seems so obvious though doesn’t it?

We are responsible for less than 1% of global carbon and so what - we’ve gone from ozone, to global warming, to climate change and with all of those non events the messaging is changing to include ‘nature’. They are making it up as they go along,

Self inflicted economic harm that will make us all poorer and there’s no science and no sense to this.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Quite how "we" keep shooting "ourselves" in the foot is beyond my comprehension.

 

Time to dump the "wokeness" and sort "ourselves" out.

[old man]

9 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Net Zero will kill all Manufacturing industry, it is National suicide that none of us can afford and for what?????

Correct. All to appease a few twits aided by idiotic politicos seeking camera time and bolstered egos.

The actual fact that zero here is less than a drop in an ocean seems beyond them? 

[amateur]

25 minutes ago, old man said:

The actual fact that zero here is less than a drop in an ocean seems beyond them? 

Ooh! But we have to show an example to the rest of the world!

 

 

 

 

Not!

[old man]

Just now, amateur said:

Ooh! But we have to show an example to the rest of the world!

 

 

 

 

Not!

Sadly part of ego massage that the rest of the world ignores and finds highly amusing that we are prepared to blow our economy?

[amateur]

1 minute ago, old man said:

Sadly part of ego massage that the rest of the world ignores and finds highly amusing that we are prepared to blow our economy?

I know that, but then, I'm not a woke politician

[old man]

26 minutes ago, amateur said:

I know that, but then, I'm not a woke politician

Pleased about that for your health sake.

[mmamonster]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Quite how "we" keep shooting "ourselves" in the foot is beyond my comprehension.

 

Time to dump the "wokeness" and sort "ourselves" out.

Correct.

[Raja Clavata]

Nothing to do with Brexit but can someone please explain to me exactly how net zero targets are causing job losses at VW?

[Weihrauch17]

37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Nothing to do with Brexit but can someone please explain to me exactly how net zero targets are causing job losses at VW?

Because they are being forced to make EV's they can't sell.

[Mungler]

36 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Nothing to do with Brexit but can someone please explain to me exactly how net zero targets are causing job losses at VW?

Total instability in the traditional car market. No one knows what they’re supposed to be buying or what’s getting penalised next - remember diesels were all the rage then they weren’t. Then EVs were all the rage…

Not sure what diesel-cheat-gate will cost VW but all that nonsense to cheat some emissions whatever.

And all the car manufacturers being forced to abandon their legacy tech and 100 years developed IPR to go green / EV and throw that advantage away to the Chinese who have a *massive* head start on tech, infrastructure and cost.

[Vince Green]

10 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Net Zero will kill all Manufacturing industry, it is National suicide that none of us can afford and for what?????

This ^^^^

And yet China burns more coal in one year than Britain has burnt in the past 120 years. That's an incredible statistic

Is China pursuing net zero? No it isn't.

While we destroy our own economy with some stupid woke ideology that can never work .

Ford has said its going back to making petrol cars. The implication being it sees itself going the same way as VW if it doesn't do a quick about turn.

One of the things about electric cars which the people promoting net zero don't say is that it is expected that far fewer of them will on the road

Perhaps a quarter compared to petrol cars. Higher purchase price, rapid depreciation (battery life seven years) and much higher insurance will price most car owners out of being able to afford one.

[Westward]

Ford, VAG, Volvo and possibly JLR are scrapping their "100% EVs by 2025" mantra but the huge fines imposed on them for not meeting the idiotic EV quotas means that, along with the costs of returning to produce mostly ICE cars, job losses are inevitable. 

The mandarins insist that car makers should "push" EV sales but that's just stupid. It's the customer who decides and range anxiety, lack of charging stations and the sheer inconvenience of EVs means most people will continue to choose ICE cars until there's been a major step up in battery & charging technology.

[armsid]

As i reported in a previous post we had the tech. in the early ,60,s using the induction field of a cable sunk under a lane of the M4 motorway between Reading and Newbury .This was the Road Research Laboratory and the three vehicles drove without using their batteries fo nine miles (the length of the test ) all day using the induction field of the sunken cable .We should have pursued this tech. but as always we failed to do so.   For those of you interested the 3 cars used were   a mini vanguard estate and citroen ds all of which are on display in the Transport Museum in London

[JohnfromUK]

Industry (e.g. VW, but many others) makes products to sell.  The products have a lifecycle which loosely goes as follows;

1. Initial concept (driven by expected demand and legislation/standards the product needs to meet).  If approved, moves on to;
2. Development of concept (driven by detailed requirements and legislation/standards the product needs to meet the product needs to meet including for it's whole lifecycle).  Once this is feasible and seen to be cost effective - moves on to;
3. Production engineering to establish how it will be made for quantity envisaged, how legislation/standards will be met, what resources are required (financial, production, suppliers) and how it will be supported once in production and selling.
4. Prototypes and pilot production - and testing to ensure legislation/standards are complied with
5. Full production - and product launch
6. Mid life upgrades and additional versions/models - more legislation/standards to meet
7. Through life support inc spares, servicing, maintenance to ensure legislation/standards are met through life
8. Around stage 5, the 'stage one for it's replacement model starts'.

This is a very basic model, but note how much legislation/standards features.  This is Governments, the EU, and all their civil servants, committees and quangoes.  Industry can only invest and proceed IF there are these things in place.  IF the goalposts keep moving - they can't safely invest.

• They were all pushed to diesels to use less fuel and save carbon emissions - and hydrogen was to be the future
• Then they were pushed back to petrols due to particles
• Then diesels were OK again if they had DPFs
• Then they weren't OK as NOx was a problem
• Then they must have AdBlue - and NOx goes away - and hydrogen was quietly forgotten
• Then they all have to go and be replaced by electrics (this despite no infrastructure, not enough battery makers, and VERY questionable REAL environmental savings)
• Now maybe they won't need to go electric?

These has been no certainty, so no one will invest when Governments (and EU) and their civil service bureaucracies don't have a clue where they want to go and when.

My view (for what it's worth) is that the biggest overall real environmental savings would come by making cars that last much longer, are more repairable and use efficient internal combustion engines - and making traffic flow freely without jams.  But then we can all dream!

[armsid]

John good point recycle the cars we have the carbon footprint has already been established    If we reuse the cars we already have jobs created  no excess carbon used in making the parts required most can be reused win win for all

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Westward said:

Ford, VAG, Volvo and possibly JLR are scrapping their "100% EVs by 2025" mantra but the huge fines imposed on them for not meeting the idiotic EV quotas means that, along with the costs of returning to produce mostly ICE cars, job losses are inevitable. 

The mandarins insist that car makers should "push" EV sales but that's just stupid. It's the customer who decides and range anxiety, lack of charging stations and the sheer inconvenience of EVs means most people will continue to choose ICE cars until there's been a major step up in battery & charging technology.

Not to mention EVs have a higher initial cost and spectacular depreciation. Add to that ridiculous insurance premiums and they become a poor financial prospect.

[JohnfromUK]

Jaguar are largely pulling out of the UK until 2026. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/jaguar-to-stop-selling-cars-in-uk

[Westward]

5 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Not to mention EVs have a higher initial cost and spectacular depreciation. Add to that ridiculous insurance premiums and they become a poor financial prospect.

EVs - as we know them today - will never be the choice of more than a small percentage of car owners. In my town alone there are hundreds of cottages and houses that have no vehicle access direct to their property. A few hundred yards down the lane from here there are 12 cottages set at right angles to the lane and even the three that have a track to their back gardens still park a longish way from the cottages. In the lane there are maybe 2 street lights relatively near but they're on the opposite side of the road so they can't be used as charging points. Perhaps by 2030 Mr Milliband (if the commissariat are still in power) can offer a solution for these cottage dwellers, but without radical new technology I can't see what would work.

11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Jaguar are largely pulling out of the UK until 2026. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/jaguar-to-stop-selling-cars-in-uk

I've read several articles about JLR and it sounds like they have no more idea than us what, if anything, they'll be producing in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if they turn out to be the first major casualty of the Nett Zero hysterics.

[matone]

17 hours ago, Mungler said:

It all seems so obvious though doesn’t it?

We are responsible for less than 1% of global carbon and so what - we’ve gone from ozone, to global warming, to climate change and with all of those non events the messaging is changing to include ‘nature’. They are making it up as they go along,

Self inflicted economic harm that will make us all poorer and there’s no science and no sense to this.

Spot on,the ordinary folk can see it but not the supposed intellectual idiots that hold sway.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, matone said:

but not the supposed intellectual idiots that hold sway.

Well, Milliband is one of those from a 'political' family who went straight from education into a political career.  never had any experience of being in a business having to make a living.  His career has been entirely concentrated on spending other peoples money.