Oh dear ,this isnt going to end well .

[holloway]

Thoughts on Rayners recent comment we should stop protecting our wildlife 🙁

[ryle]

That is very saddening, but not surprising.

[Dougy]

Return of the Muppet show. 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I thought she only meant effectively a "newt should NOT come before a human".

[holloway]

3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I thought she only meant effectively a "newt should NOT come before a human".

well isn't that the point ? what else would it mean ? Development regardless of collateral damage to wildlife .

[enfieldspares]

I hope it might mean no more "bats" nonsense and "newts" tomfoolery that cause the waste of millions, or even cancellation, of many expensive and beneficial projects.

[ryle]

For me personally, I just find it sad to see green fields built over when we have so many decadent old unused brownfield areas within towns and cities. The age old topic I suppose.

[JKD]

I just watched AR's interview with Laura K on the iplayer, and she didn't actually mention wildlife, but did mention "environmental issues".

Does anyone have a link or can quote any other interviews where she might have said different things to what was said in the BBC interview please ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Read this;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/08/prioritise-peoples-needs-over-newts-in-housing-policy-says-angela-rayner

[JKD]

So she didn't actually say " Stomp on the newts and oust the bats from the belfry for more house planning to be passed " then ? 🤷‍♂️

[old man]

1 hour ago, ryle said:

For me personally, I just find it sad to see green fields built over when we have so many decadent old unused brownfield areas within towns and cities. The age old topic I suppose.

Ah but green costs less to build on than brown due to prior clean up costs?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

From the Trevor Phillips Show on Sky News;

"Ms Rayner, who is deputy prime minister and housing secretary, was asked if this meant fewer protections for wildlife like newts, bats, and kittiwakes.

The Labour minister told Sunday Morning With Trevor Phillips she thinks "we can look after them, but at the same time not stop building".

"We can't have a situation where newts are more protected than people who desperately need housing," she said.

"What we need is a process which says 'protect nature and wildlife, but not at the expense of us building the houses'."

Edited December 8 by TIGHTCHOKE

[JKD]

Aahhh, but,,,, there are laws protecting these [and other] species. Is she saying that the government is going to assist in planning applications getting passed, creating law breaking in the process ? I doubt that,,,, but to some, it looks good for her [the government] to be trying to get more housing built to house all those in need 👏😒

More promises of "CHANGE" that they are attempting, in trying to improve "the country [UK]" 🙄

[12gauge82]

I agree with the literal interpretation in that a newt can't come before a human. But isn't there then an argument that all illegal migration should be stopped, as the country clearly doesn't have the housing for those already here? Surely virtue signalling can't come before a person? 

[Mice!]

41 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I agree with the literal interpretation in that a newt can't come before a human. But isn't there then an argument that all illegal migration should be stopped, as the country clearly doesn't have the housing for those already here? Surely virtue signalling can't come before a person? 

Yeah, good luck with that, Labour would rather roll out the welcome mat.

[39TDS]

Don't get too hung up on what gets said as it is very rarely what actually happens, Boris said something almost identical and nothing came of that either.

As a nation we cannot help ourselves when it comes to gold plating any rules often at the detriment to the overall good to ourselves and certainly to the detriment of the nation. I forget the exact figures but one roadbuilding bill for newt surveys etc came to something like £40k/newt. I like newts but that really males no sense, it has become a complete scam along with bat surveys/mitigation etc. HS2 have built a shed to protect bats from passing trains, at a cost of over £100million. https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2024-11-09/hs2-ltd-spending-more-than-100m-on-bat-shed-says-chairman This isn't a sensible use of money.

There aren't enough builders to build anything like what they claim. As always it is lies and make believe

Edited December 8 by 39TDS

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Smoke and mirrors.....................

[oowee]

Newts are super common in UK. In MK dig a hole anywhere in the ground and you will get newts and have an immediately protected site. To develop a site for housing (where there might be newts) you have to newt fence it. A 300mm high plastic fence around the site with a bucket at intervals. Newts travel along the site and fall into buckets. The buckets need to be checked and emptied very often (Twice a day?). Keep doing this for at least a year possibly two. You then take the newts to another piece of land sharing a chunk of the value of the land you want to develop with the land you tip the newts onto. It's insanity. Where did the newt shortage / risk come from in the first place? I think its an old EU rule. 

Same with bats. Buy a new house with a bat box and no bat then take it down. 

3 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

I hope it might mean no more "bats" nonsense and "newts" tomfoolery that cause the waste of millions, or even cancellation, of many expensive and beneficial projects.

This ^^^^

4 hours ago, holloway said:

well isn't that the point ? what else would it mean ? Development regardless of collateral damage to wildlife .

There is none.

2 hours ago, old man said:

Ah but green costs less to build on than brown due to prior clean up costs?

green or brown its all the same to a newt.

[JKD]

But,,,,, how many individual 'small' builders actually go through the motions of checking for protected species on their tiny little building plots ? I'd guess at not many at all.

AR was more alluding to 'large' house builders,,,, talking about getting the proper infrastructure in place,,,, roads, shops, even schools. This obviously has to go through more scrutiny than Joe Bloggs building a 3 bed house on a tenth of an acre [just as one example].

Can't go into details, but I know someone who has handled, and 're-homed' many newts and also one bat [species unknown],,,, not during any large building processes, but extensions/conversions/repairs etc. And that person is still around to tell the tale 🤫🫡😆

More new housing is required, yes, as the population is growing. Not sure of the figures, [ignoring natural births and deaths etc] but more are 'arriving' than 'leaving'.

It's not as simple as saying "We will build more houses". That creates so many complex issues, and the 'environment' is only one [but includes many].

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, 39TDS said:

There aren't enough builders to build anything like what they claim. As always it is lies and make believe

This without a doubt is the critical bit, there have not been enough tradesmen since about 2000

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, JKD said:

More new housing is required, yes, as the population is growing. Not sure of the figures, [ignoring natural births and deaths etc] but more are 'arriving' than 'leaving'.

We know that well enough 🙄 100s daily. 

33 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

This without a doubt is the critical bit, there have not been enough tradesmen since about 2000

Not sure about that? We've always managed to get them, occasionally had them not want to do jobs they deam too small.

[holloway]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Newts are super common in UK. In MK dig a hole anywhere in the ground and you will get newts and have an immediately protected site. To develop a site for housing (where there might be newts) you have to newt fence it. A 300mm high plastic fence around the site with a bucket at intervals. Newts travel along the site and fall into buckets. The buckets need to be checked and emptied very often (Twice a day?). Keep doing this for at least a year possibly two. You then take the newts to another piece of land sharing a chunk of the value of the land you want to develop with the land you tip the newts onto. It's insanity. Where did the newt shortage / risk come from in the first place? I think its an old EU rule. 

Same with bats. Buy a new house with a bat box and no bat then take it down. 

This ^^^^

There is none.

green or brown its all the same to a newt.

The Great crested newt protected in the UK as a priority species ,also listed as a European protected species and the Greater horseshoe bat rare in the UK protected in the Uk and Europe declining in the Uk.

It is illegal to injure ,disturb or kill either of these species by law obviously we are not talking about the common Newt, although all bats have this protection my concern is they ignore these laws when dealing with the genuine threatened species .

[oowee]

28 minutes ago, holloway said:

The Great crested newt protected in the UK as a priority species ,also listed as a European protected species and the Greater horseshoe bat rare in the UK protected in the Uk and Europe declining in the Uk.

It is illegal to injure ,disturb or kill either of these species by law obviously we are not talking about the common Newt, although all bats have this protection my concern is they ignore these laws when dealing with the genuine threatened species .

I would agree we don't want that but its in proportion to location,risk, role and function. Seagulls on waste dumps. Badgers on dairy farms.

Edited December 8 by oowee

[holloway]

50 minutes ago, oowee said:

I would agree we don't want that but its in proportion to location,risk, role and function. Seagulls on waste dumps. Badgers on dairy farms.

Agree we just need common sense 👍

[39TDS]

5 hours ago, JKD said:

But,,,,, how many individual 'small' builders actually go through the motions of checking for protected species on their tiny little building plots ? I'd guess at not many at all.

AR was more alluding to 'large' house builders,,,, talking about getting the proper infrastructure in place,,,, roads, shops, even schools. This obviously has to go through more scrutiny than Joe Bloggs building a 3 bed house on a tenth of an acre [just as one example].

Can't go into details, but I know someone who has handled, and 're-homed' many newts and also one bat [species unknown],,,, not during any large building processes, but extensions/conversions/repairs etc. And that person is still around to tell the tale 🤫🫡😆

More new housing is required, yes, as the population is growing. Not sure of the figures, [ignoring natural births and deaths etc] but more are 'arriving' than 'leaving'.

It's not as simple as saying "We will build more houses". That creates so many complex issues, and the 'environment' is only one [but includes many].

You have to have an ecology report (newts and bats included in that) in order to get planning permission for just one house. Newts and bats are heavily protected by law and work must stop if they are found. In reality I suspect if they are found during building works of either 1 or 100 houses they are quickly dealt with the same way. Anyone that has ever found newts or bats and have gone through the proper procedure will very likely say they would never do that again.