Local Police caught gassing handcuffed man

[Justintime]

cant really blame them considering how much criticism and **** they get every day i suppose

WOULD YOU HAVE MADE THIS COMMENT IF IT WAS YOU THEY HAD DONE IT TO ? I think not ,and dont start saying i wouldnt be in that situation, you dont know what situations you can find your self in by simply being at a location when something kicks off.

And it dosenot matter how much **** they get there is NO excuse for this type of behavior . Spray a copper with CS and start counting the years you would get for protecting your person against an aggresor useing reasonable force (a fav saying of the plod) i restrained him /her useing reasonable force. The kick in the goolies was an accedent judge even though he/she was restrained by handcuf and legs tied.

Its time tossers like this spineless copper were put in prison in general population

Edited September 17, 2009 by Justintime

[Ozzy Fudd]

WOULD YOU HAVE MADE THIS COMMENT IF IT WAS YOU THEY HAD DONE IT TO ? I think not ,and dont start saying i wouldnt be in that situation, you dont know what situations you can find your self in by simply being at a location when something kicks off.

 

YES I WOULD HAVE BECAUSE I WASNT DEFENDING THEIR BEHAVIOUR, READ THE POSTS AND STOP SHOUTING.

 

as i said i didnt defend their behaviour, i was commenting on the whole "them and us" syndrome.

 

i suggest you read this thread - http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=99066 - before you start having a go at me, then youll see my opinion of the cops and you wont make yourself look like a *** again

 

and yes, i know full well what situations you can find yourself in by simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time - ive had to dodge plastic bullets on more than one occasion, so wind yer neck in!

[Justintime]

Thats not a personel dig but you posted it so there for you condoned it , and as for windeing my neck in i think it is you that should think defore posting, such comments enough said

[Ozzy Fudd]

I ain't tarnishing all the police with the same bully boy brush. But I would tarnish the majority with an inability to see any fault in their colleagues actions no matter how blatently out of order [end of, and not watered down - just plain old out of order, no ifs or buts].

 

 

cant really blame them considering how much criticism and **** they get every day i suppose

 

 

Having given that some thought, I think I would concede the point you make - it would be a natural consequence of a "them and us" division between the police and the rest of the Country.

 

now this is the conversation that my response was related to. where exactly does my post condone the polices actions?

 

now if mungler, who jumps on the smallest comment and rips it to shreds if he thinks its misjudged (no offence mate, but you do), lets it pass and basically agrees with it, whats your problem?

 

man up, youve just made yourself look like a ***, now youre trying to say that just because i posted in the thread im condoning police behaviour, even though my post is taken totally out of context and was related to a different subject than the one this is about - ie police spraying cs gas in/near a handcuffed mans face.

 

oh and youre not having a dig at me? so thats why you quoted my post in your first reply

[Cranfield]

Now, now children, play nicely.

There is no need for personal insults, just because you disagree with the other persons point of view.

 

I wasn't at the incident and a short video can only give you a brief snapshot of what is happening and nothing about what happened before, or after.

Many, many years ago I lived for a few months in an area that was plagued with drunken scum.

I would have paid for the handcuffs and gas, if someone had handcuffed them and treated them to a faceful, of CS.

No doubt they were all just innocent chaps out celebrating a once in a lifetime event, but somehow I doubt it.

I have to admit that I tend to view all drunks as potential trouble and treat them accordingly (nowadays by avoidance).

[al4x]

WOULD YOU HAVE MADE THIS COMMENT IF IT WAS YOU THEY HAD DONE IT TO ? I think not ,and dont start saying i wouldnt be in that situation, you dont know what situations you can find your self in by simply being at a location when something kicks off.

And it dosenot matter how much **** they get there is NO excuse for this type of behavior . Spray a copper with CS and start counting the years you would get for protecting your person against an aggresor useing reasonable force (a fav saying of the plod) i restrained him /her useing reasonable force. The kick in the goolies was an accedent judge even though he/she was restrained by handcuf and legs tied.

Its time tossers like this spineless copper were put in prison in general population

 

 

excellent a nice reasoned argument, I can safely say I don't think i'll end up in the same situation as even when drunk I tend not to shout the odds and struggle with police.

The only other thing to bear in mind is there was also a fire happening at this incident so had the coppers got the time to be playing nicely and asking him if he'd please settle down so they could do something more important. Whichever way you look at it were it to happen in the US he'd have had a gun pointed at him and told to behave.

[Ozzy Fudd]

Many, many years ago I lived for a few months in an area that was plagued with drunken scum.

 

Scotland?

[silpig5]

my earlier posts may have seamed harsh , but cranfield has summed up many (most) peoples thoughts.

this isnt personel but sometimes you need to go in on the face of things . i.e with the force at your disposal.

[Hatstand]

Off topic but quite interesting,

 

I wonder if any will claim compensation?

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/new...ned_in_cs_drama

 

Note to self "Join The Peoples Front Of Judia Suicide Squad before Greater Manchester Police, you'll last longer"

[DaveB916]

More of it required, I can think of a couple of candidates for it too....lol

 

 

Dave B

[J@mes]

Scotland?

 

 

:yp:

[Mungler]

Here we go, on the BBC news tonight............

 

EDIT:

 

On BBC News tonight (due up any second now).

 

The snippet suggests that the bloke who got his head slammed on the bonnet and a face full of gas has been found not guilty of any and all charges.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Mungler

[guest1957]

Here we go, on the BBC news tonight............

 

EDIT:

 

On BBC News tonight (due up any second now).

 

The snippet suggests that the bloke who got his head slammed on the bonnet and a face full of gas has been found not guilty of any and all charges.

 

So when will the Officer in question be facing criminal charges as opposed to a wishy-washy 'indpendent investigation'

[ziplex]

Fair do's - if the copper came out and said "I did it for giggles and because he was rude about my mum" I think his honesty would be applauded

 

 

I thought that last week when I was 'CAUGHT' driving into a trading estate, well off the main road, no taffic, no danger, etc. listening to an answerphone on my mobile. £60 and 3 points later..............................it's just a different set of rules that get 'interpretated' (?) any which way that suits

[Silverballer]

I wasnt there when this fella got gassed so im not gonna jump on the media bandwagon and say the cops are in the wrong as most of the time the police have their hands tied in this country with regards to what they can do. The daily mail may get outraged because some drunk got tasered or, a police officer left an ammo clip in a magazine a house they searched but I'd like to see newspapers like that relocate to south africa, then they'll have something to moan about rather than the pathetic no stories we get in this country. thats my 2 cents.

[adymorris]

I must have got out of bed on the stupid side earlier.

 

I read ' Local police caught gassing with hadcuffed man' and thought this thread looks interesting I wonder what police do talk about with there criminals when caught !!!

 

 

 

I was expecting picture of the essex plod farting in his face or something like that

[Gordon R]

The Policemen concerned got it badly wrong in this instance. There are good and bad people in every walk of life - you just expect less of the bad in the Police. I trust they will pay the appropriate penalty.

 

Balance this against the thousands of times they get it right.

[Highlander]

Zero Tolerance...gas 'em, tazer 'em, nuke 'em just get rid!

[Harnser]

All these scum drunks that blight our streets so that the decent people of this land are afraid to go out should be thrown into a wood chipper towed through the streets by the sanatory cleansing department .

 

Harnser .

[Albertan_J]

The cop simply lost his cool with the lad and got the cs out. Just a lack of discipline really. In my eyes all he's done is a good job of making all the officers who are very professional look like a set of thugs with badges in the eyes of the general public again.

[Chard]

It's open season with drunks, as far as I'm concerned. Anything goes, it's OK with me.

 

No case to answer, if you get drunk and bolshy, you need to expect some treatment.

 

The not guilty tripe is meaningless, they all get off with it, every Saturday night. **** 'em :blink:

[stevethevanman]

Just because someone is handcuffed it does not mean they are not a danger or that you can not use force on them.

I have been punched, kicked, headbutted, stamped on, spat on and bitted by handcuffed people.

As a result of the spitting I had to have 12 months of blood tests for Hep C.

A friend of mine recently had his nose broken by a handcuffed person and someone else I know was kicked in the face by someone who was handcuffed and being put in the van. Another mate lost his front teeth from a handcuffed person headbutting him.

 

The lady from Liberty is talking C R A P.

She says that CS spray should only be used in the last resort........WRONG.

Shooting him would have been the last resort.

Setting a dog on him, punching him, battoning him would all have been worse and had lasting effects.

20 minutes after being sprayed the effects would have worn off and and he would have no lasting injuries....from that at least.

 

In my opinion the bloke looks like he was struggling and resisting. If the CS spray stopped him and the officers getting hurt then it was the right choice.

 

Mungler...how often do you deal with people like that and what approach do you take when dealing with them?

 

Harry

 

I think you are totally wrong, the stuff you say is the reason the police changed the arm placement in handcuffs from || to =..so people cant punch, however they can still headbutt. By the way, most sprays tell you burning sensation can be felt for as much as 6 hours after the spraying, with painful or immobilising effects felt for 30 mins?

 

And it can cause respiratory damage, hence all the guidelines around it, if it was care free im sure there would be none

 

I think most doormen and those in a "violence" tendent prefession will tell you that there are risks you have to deal with, and with his hands cuffed, and his legs held together I dont think he is going anywhere do you? The officers were not in any danger, the bloke couldnt even stand up by him self, so come on, start seeing some reality of what he could of actually done please!!

 

Unless he is very good at the sack race, some how, I dont think so :blink:

 

I think the police were wrong to do this, it was very excessive, and whats more a complete waste of money, they were charged with public order offences, and will get a minor record, but appart from that who cares?

 

They are going to get no major lasting punishment from any of it, I think there is more to his film than you can see, and whether coppers like it or not, they can take things personally and decide in their own mind to use excessive force agains someone.

 

Bring that woman down like that was also completely unnecessary

 

Steve

Edited July 17, 2010 by stevethevanman

[mudpatten]

I`ve been retired now for some 14 years having actually joined the Plod in 1974.

 

For those of you who`ve watched Gene Hunt in "Life on Mars," believe me, it really was like that!

 

Different attitude now though with every Tom **** and Harry being interested in the "rights" of the "victim".

 

They taught us all manner of restraining holds at training school but my first shift Inspector summed it up quite succinctly when he said..." forget all that ****. If they`ve had a skinfull give `em a chance to go home quietly. If they want to fight don`t mess about restraining them. Hurt them, injure them, arrest them. That way they`re less likely to want to come back for more next Saturday."

 

Funnily enough, it worked.

 

In the 1970`s the Police may have been regarded as uniformed thugs but few people cared as long as the Queens Peace was maintained.

 

Nowadays, everybody "cares" about Police behaviour......

 

If you live in an inner city estate are you completely happy with what passes for the Queens Peace in your area?

 

Just so long as those naughty policemen are brought to book, everything will be ok.

Edited July 19, 2010 by mudpatten

[UKPoacher]

I`ve been retired for now for some 14 years having actually joined the Plod in 1974.

 

For those of you who`ve watched Gene Hunt in "Life on Mars," believe me, it really was like that!

 

Different attitude now though with every Tom **** and Harry being interested in the "rights" of the "victim".

 

They taught us all manner of restraining holds at training school but my first shift Inspector summed it up quite succinctly when he said..." forget all that ****. If they`ve had a skinfull give `em a chance to go home quietly. If they want to fight don`t mess about restraining them. Hurt them, injure them, arrest them. That way they`re less likely to want to come back for more next Saturday."

 

Funnily enough, it worked.

 

In the 1970`s the Police may have been regarded as uniformed thugs but few people cared as long as the Queens Peace was maintained.

 

Nowadays, everybody "cares" about Police behaviour......

 

If you live in an inner city estate are you completely happy with what passes for the Queens Peace in your area?

 

Just so long as those naughty policemen are brought to book, everything will be ok.

 

I joined in 1987 and saw the tail end of that pre-PACE era. When we went into a fight we went in to win at all costs. There was no gas in those days, no quick cuffs and nobody used their wooden trucheons. It was all hands on and anybody who gave lip was soon sitting in a cell and would have known about his experience.

 

A few years ago a colleague assaulted a gassed and handcuffed prisoner by beating him around the legs with an extendable baton after the same officer had been too scared to assist his mate to detain him. I called him a Yello B.....d and was promptly disciplined whereas the officer who committed the assault was quietly moved into CID. He has since moved on and now carries a gun. It's a frightening situation.

 

If the officers did gas a man who was already restrained then there should be no reason why the officer or officers are investigated and prosecuted if appropriate. I have no time for these people in the force.

[Mungler]

It's open season with drunks, as far as I'm concerned. Anything goes, it's OK with me.

 

No case to answer, if you get drunk and bolshy, you need to expect some treatment.

 

The not guilty tripe is meaningless, they all get off with it, every Saturday night. **** 'em :blink:

 

Interestingly, the charges that were brought against him came with the head line of an alleged assault on a paramedic. Sounds heavy doesn't it, assaulting a paramedic? However, the charge actually boiled down to an allegation that he spat at a paramedic.

 

Okay, spitting at a paramedic that's a nasty business and falls within the legal definition of assault, but it's not quite a headline grabber is it?

 

However, and fortunately for the gentleman in question, there was video of this alleged spitting / assault. It took the Judge less than 10 minutes to throw the case out - the video showed the man talking to the paramedic (cuffed and with his face still bleeding) and without hostility. Midway through speaking, blood had filled his mouth and the video footage *clearly* showed that he turned his head away from the paramedic and spat blood out and onto the floor. The paramedic said he was spat at deliberately and it hit him, but the video showed the bloke turn his head and spit his own blood to the floor.

 

So..... this brings us right back round to not guilty of anything. The only charge brought was in relation to allegedly spitting at the paramedic (as above).

 

No one knows what went on to land him in handcuffs and on the bonnet of a cop car with a face full of gas; whatever it was it wasn't enough to make any charges stick. Indeed, you think about the scrutiny on this case - the police needed to find him guilty of something to get anywhere near justifying the way the police treated a restrained man in custody. Indeed, they took a prosecution all the way based on allegedly spitting at a paramedic despite video evidence to the contrary - that whiffs of absolute desperation and it didn't stick because the video evidence showed that no offence had been committed. The speed at which the Court reached a verdict is also very telling.

 

This isn't about sticking up for the bloke in question. It's about sticking up for anyone who is innocent until proven guilty, fully restrained in police custody and not getting a face full of gas because the policeman in question just fancied it.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Mungler