Wildfowling Without A Dog

[Big Mat]

Have you got your RSPB coaching badges now then mat ? !

 

Someone is going to have to remind me what a marsh looks like, i've not been there in 2 weeks!

[andrew f]

 

Someone is going to have to remind me what a marsh looks like, i've not been there in 2 weeks!

wet muddy and cold?

[panoma1]

Spurious emotional arguement ? ... I have just completely agreed with your post, its up to the individual . All i have done is highlight why most responsible shooters choose to take a dog.Davyo good on you at least try to team up with someone who has a dog .

Like i said at the start those without dogs will give their own opinion and its usually that they are careful ,try not to wound ,only shoot over land etc .

At the end of the day at your own discretion is the bottom line.

I'm glad we can agree that it's up to the individual, however The spurious emotional part of your arguement is quoting the worst case scenario! Which is what our enemies do! emotive words like crippled birds left to die a slow lingering death from gangrene and starvation, and intimating that's what people who shoot without a dog normally do! Then stating that if that what they want to do "its up to them" further intimating shooting without a dog somehow shows lack of responsibility and a don't care attitude! You end by misquoting my comment about shooting without a dog not being "against the law" out of context and In the form of a question, again pointing an accusatorial finger at those who for whatever reason shoot without a dog!

 

Not all people who shoot with a dog are responsible and not all people who shoot without a dog are irresponsible....it's irresponsible to generalise!

[islandgun]

Completely agree with this posting , if people wish to shoot without a dog and their conscience sees no problem with leaving crippled birds to die a slow lingering death from gangrene or starvation then it is up to them ,"after all its not illegal is it "

Youve never lost a bird ? pointless question dont bother to answer

Edited December 6, 2014 by islandgun

[marsh man]

The one or two people I know without a dog do seem to find most of what they shoot , they learn different skills from us in marking and of course putting themselves in a position where they stand a good chance of picking up dead or wounded fowl , like being in the middle of the field near a splash and not round a boundry dyke with no liggers in sight and so on . I am not condemning fowlers who haven't got a dog , far from it , what I don't like are the ones who shoot in places by themselves where the odds are stacked against them if and when they do shoot something , like standing on the edge of a tidal river or shooting something over a wide flooding creek knowing its to deep ( or to risky ) to wade across.

 

Like some of the members say even us with dogs lose birds now and again, you cant be off it and I hate it when I do lose something , but I go home knowing I and my dog have tried our best and you cant do much more than that .

[shootgun]

I won't pack up shooting only for not having a dog.. Although i would love to have one, is no one to look after during the day... I would rather loose a pricked bird than to have a dog and make its life a nightmare.

[birdsallpl]

Anyone that tried to argue you never need a dog when fowling is an idiot. However a dog when fowling is a great asset but not essential. I have spent years shooting on marshes without a dog and also years with dogs and having dogs certainly make it easier and more enjoyable. My concern about this post is that we may be discouraging new guns to the sport because they don't have a dog. I would advise anyone wanting to start Wildfowling to get out there and do it with or without a dog, go with an experience shot to begin with but don't be put off because you don't have a dog. You will soon learn your limits.

[andrew f]

Anyone that tried to argue you never need a dog when fowling is an idiot. However a dog when fowling is a great asset but not essential. I have spent years shooting on marshes without a dog and also years with dogs and having dogs certainly make it easier and more enjoyable. My concern about this post is that we may be discouraging new guns to the sport because they don't have a dog. I would advise anyone wanting to start Wildfowling to get out there and do it with or without a dog, go with an experience shot to begin with but don't be put off because you don't have a dog. You will soon learn your limits.

Rule of thumb don't shoot what you cant retrieve is basically what this is about?

[birdsallpl]

Rule of thumb don't shoot what you cant retrieve is basically what this is about?

 

Yes of course, but that goes for all forms of shooting in my book. On the foreshore you just have to be that bit more careful.

Just to expand on that there are times on the Humber when I wouldn't shoot over the water with a dog. Some of the tide flows you would be seriously putting your dog at risk

Edited December 6, 2014 by birdsallpl

[Man o kent]

Completely agree with this posting , if people wish to shoot without a dog and their conscience sees no problem with leaving crippled birds to die a slow lingering death from gangrene or starvation then it is up to them ,"after all its not illegal is it "

hmmmmm, I smell a rat?

[andrew f]

I shoot without a dog most of the time since he's been retired (bad joints) I only shoot what I can find

[panoma1]

Anyone that tried to argue you never need a dog when fowling is an idiot. However a dog when fowling is a great asset but not essential. I have spent years shooting on marshes without a dog and also years with dogs and having dogs certainly make it easier and more enjoyable. My concern about this post is that we may be discouraging new guns to the sport because they don't have a dog. I would advise anyone wanting to start Wildfowling to get out there and do it with or without a dog, go with an experience shot to begin with but don't be put off because you don't have a dog. You will soon learn your limits.

I for one wouldn't argue with this posting!

[anser2]

As long as you pick a spot such as open mud or short grass it is possible to shoot without a dog and pick up most of of what you shoot , but to shoot without a dog is to miss half the fun in wildfowling. I have sometimes not taken my dogs when shooting places where it is not fair to expect one to stand shivering in the freezing cold in 6 inches of water for 4 or 5 hours on end. There was also a time as a teenager when I did not have a car and had to cycle 10 miles to the marsh , having to leave my dog with my parents while visiting the Wash back in the 1970s. As far as possible I only picked morning flights where the growing light made picking up simpler and stopped shooting well before dark in the evenings and avoided creeks and rough cover. I could even do tide flights as long as I picked a spot with no creeks and the water was shallow. Indeed when lying on your back in 10 inch high spartina there is nowhere to hide a dog anyway.

 

Having said this I do not supose i have been shooting without a dog for over 25 years and would hate to do so these days. A dog opens up areas and times where a dogless fowler will not be able to shoot without loseing most of what he shoots and for a lone shooter provides companionship when on the marsh.

[holloway]

I'm glad we can agree that it's up to the individual, however The spurious emotional part of your arguement is quoting the worst case scenario! Which is what our enemies do! emotive words like crippled birds left to die a slow lingering death from gangrene and starvation, and intimating that's what people who shoot without a dog normally do! Then stating that if that what they want to do "its up to them" further intimating shooting without a dog somehow shows lack of responsibility and a don't care attitude! You end by misquoting my comment about shooting without a dog not being "against the law" out of context and In the form of a question, again pointing an accusatorial finger at those who for whatever reason shoot without a dog!

 

Not all people who shoot with a dog are responsible and not all people who shoot without a dog are irresponsible....it's irresponsible to generalise!

.I have used the worst case scenario because for every unretrieved wounded bird that is what they have to look forward to, i repeat gangrene and starvation a slow lingering death, what is there best case scenario then ? wildfowl hospital and swift recovery with compensation. ?

It may be emotional to you but to me its a fact plain and simple not spurious or emotion.

I only shoot with a dog and yes i still lose birds, i stand by what i said if you choose to shoot without a dog you will lose MORE birds that is a choice for the individual not an accusation on my part.

As a footnote to this a week on any popular fowling estuary will bear testiment to the many half starved cripples that haunt the tideline, coupled of course with the manic high shooting (but thats a different story).

This has all been disscussed many times on this forum so with my point given and my head NOT stuck in the sand i will leave it there,

[marsh man]

" Anser2 " picked another good reason for taking a dog along and that is companionship , most of the time I spend shooting wildfowl or pigeons I am by myself not that I am anti social I just prefer being alone with no one else to think or worry about and having my dog with me is all the company I want , you build a relationship between the two of you by sharing each others sucsess and failures . I cant hit everything and my dog cant retrieve all I drop either so you work as a team and when you do a good shot and your dog do a excellent retrieve there is no better feeling .

 

They used to say and maybe still do that if a dog isn't making the grade as trialling dog it will make a good wildfowling dog , in most cases that is complete rubbish . We used to have some trials on the estate where I worked and some of the dogs were brilliant but then again some were next to useless they relied on the owner to much for signals and instructions and couldn't work the simple things out for themselves . A good wildfowling dog needs to go into the darkness or across a drain or river and work things out himself as the owner is out of sight but training a fowling dog is another story for another day .

[dawntredder]

Great post topic as I am going to venturing into Wildfowling,I asked this very question a few days ago as I felt It would be frowned upon if I shot without a dog or at least didn't team up with someone who did. I am not going to jump into this form of shooting without gaining some insight first.I want to get the dog first,then spend a year training it as well as learning the calls and flight patterns of legal quarry myself.Have had some great advise from 2 members who shoot Lindusfarne and been told to get up there and just watch and learn.

The dog issue seems,as others have said to be probably the most important price of kit.I will follow this post with interest .I am fascinated with the wildfowlers,their knowledge is way beyond normal forms of shooting.Being able to identify species is poor light and knowledge of estuaries and tides ect,fascinating.

my dog has been in poor health the last 2 seasons but is on the mend now and losing weight the fat cow....so there is times when I've been without her and I just retrieve myself without many problems where I shoot (lindisfarne) good thing is you don't need a dog at morning flights as the gutters are not that deep out on the muds and I've found that tideflighting tends to be best 1 hour before top of the tide but always seems better on a droping tide so it is pretty easy to retrieve yourself unless you cant swim it is not essential to have one at lindisfarne and they do not say you have to have one but if you can afford one and are prepared to do abit training then get one you will get pleasure out of that alone...i use a sprocker bitch and she is a class act most of the time and sometimes she is not having any of it but that's just spaniels...one thing I do know I aint seen a better dog up there in 5 seasons that's for sure

[v-max]

Hi Montrose basin can be shot without a dog easy as long you get the geese down fast no gliders etc. There ore bits that you need a dog but on bits of the basin it's just mud flats with shingle beds that I I used to sit on. I always worked off the North end or wigeon hide & you need to walk 400m-1000m out for the geese so low tide only & dog not really requiered. I'm ok for dogs as make up for those without with my 10 off crew

[Tallshort]

I would dearly love to try Wildfowling as it appears to be more affordable and more accessible than most other forms the sport. But until I get a dog I wont do it on my own for the reasons listed above. I would be happy going with someone who has a dog to retreve for us but there should always be a trained dog IMO

[Chad63]

.I have used the worst case scenario because for every unretrieved wounded bird that is what they have to look forward to, i repeat gangrene and starvation a slow lingering death, what is there best case scenario then ? wildfowl hospital and swift recovery with compensation. ?

It may be emotional to you but to me its a fact plain and simple not spurious or emotion.

I only shoot with a dog and yes i still lose birds, i stand by what i said if you choose to shoot without a dog you will lose MORE birds that is a choice for the individual not an accusation on my part.

As a footnote to this a week on any popular fowling estuary will bear testiment to the many half starved cripples that haunt the tideline, coupled of course with the manic high shooting (but thats a different story). This has all been disscussed many times on this forum so with my point given and my head NOT stuck in the sand i will leave it there,

As someone who recently spent a week on such a location with holloway I can confirm that comment is based on fact and not emotion!

[Man o kent]

As someone who recently spent a week on such a location with holloway I can confirm that comment is based on fact and not emotion!

then why not say that you don't agree with shooting without a dog based on ethics. Inflamatory statements like the above only give ammunition to those who would like to see an end to shooting, fishing and fieldsports

[hawkfanz]

i hadn,t had a dog in over 20 years due to the hurt it caused me when my pointer died,i now have a springer at 2 1/2 years old,i got her due to the fact cos of my dissabilty i counldn, run after flappers while pigeon shooting but after over 40years without my left leg ,i decided on the new dog,i was out last night with our little group rough shooting and then evening flight on the ponds,5 of us shooting 2 ponds,rushes 5 feet tall,and mine was the only dog available,4 mallard down 1 was a flapper in the river and 4 teal down,all recovered by my dog,i don't think we could have got them without her,and its on farmland the cover is so dense

[birdsallpl]

.I have used the worst case scenario because for every unretrieved wounded bird that is what they have to look forward to, i repeat gangrene and starvation a slow lingering death, what is there best case scenario then ? wildfowl hospital and swift recovery with compensation. ?

It may be emotional to you but to me its a fact plain and simple not spurious or emotion.

I only shoot with a dog and yes i still lose birds, i stand by what i said if you choose to shoot without a dog you will lose MORE birds that is a choice for the individual not an accusation on my part.

As a footnote to this a week on any popular fowling estuary will bear testiment to the many half starved cripples that haunt the tideline, coupled of course with the manic high shooting (but thats a different story).

This has all been disscussed many times on this forum so with my point given and my head NOT stuck in the sand i will leave it there,

I'm not contradicting you because we have all seen it, but I'm convinced that the cripples we see are generally where idiots have taken out of range shots and the bird has glided back out onto the mud or water far out and many times further than even the best dog could retrieve. I have seen geese glide over huge distances clearly hit but far beyond any retrieve many times. Hasten to add not shot by me.

[GADWALL41]

There are Times and Locations when , even with mutly in Tow I pass , on That shot . I did so this morning and shortly afterwards was rewarded with a 2 for the Price of one Deal on a Brace of Teal . Had I taken the earlier shot , they would have flown .

 

Not wishing to Tell anybody what to do , but we must Respect our Quarry and that means Using a dog .

 

Besides, Shooting without a Dog is Only Half of Wildfowling for me , seeing my Dog wag his Tail for hours on end , sitting in the mud , waiting for a chance to do his Stuff , then Launch off into the Freezing cold ! Brrr ..

 

I shall be needing a new pup soon myself , Mutly is getting Stiff, just like Me.

[Scully]

I'm not a proper 'fowler, only shooting ducks on our marshes, ponds and rivers, and even on our little roughshoot pond there are many ducks which would have been lost without my dog. She will go anywhere to get at downed game, dead or running, but it's not just when 'fowling that I consider my dog to be a valuable member of our syndicate. I just don't feel right shooting without her. She works the hedges and thick cover, and many's the time we would have simply walked over sitting birds without our dogs.

Some of my shooting mates don't have dogs, and that's their choice which is perfectly fine, but they know better than to grumble about lost birds they've shot.

The only time I don't take my dog is when bolting rabbits to guns. Although brilliant at marking occupied burrows she will chase any bolting rabbits and kill my ferrets if she gets the chance, and tying her down is just frustrating for her, so I leave her at home.

[Barls2-9-12]

Like a few people have said, due to there circumstances they can't own a dog and I don't think it should discourage them form going Wildfowling as long as they understand the restrictions of not having one.

 

I enjoy working my dogs more than shooting. There company is second to none. When I am on the marsh and someone doesn't have a dog and they have a bird down I always offer a hand.