ditchman Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Dear Harnser, a while ago (last year) we were involved in a thread in which you contributed a brief story on using dead pigeons and preserving them in Formaldehyde ?...and smoothing off the plumage with your mrs hairspray !! could you give a more detailed discription of the process you went thro.. did you remove the guts did you remove the breasts did you remove the legs did you pack the voids with synthetic wadding did you wire the body into shape before preserving what fluid did you use for preserving how long did it take how long did it take to dry did you use Elnet hairspray (popular then) i think most of us agree that real birds are better as decoys....i just need to have a go at this ...particularly for a couple of decoys on the magnet.. kind regards ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redditch Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) In the old days before plastic decoys, the only decoys you had available, were either wooden painted ones, OR, real birds that had been injected with formaldehyde. But you have to look after them or they soon start losing feathers and getting tatty Edited August 23, 2015 by Redditch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have 12 dead bird deeks that must be around 8 years old now. I picked out 4 at a time, making sure they were dead birds (not runners), shot at height or distance and then picked by me and not the dog. They were, broadly speaking, 'not a feather out of place'. I then breasted them out, removed the legs and guts completely, cutting the ribs to leave a sort of cage. I then scraped as much blood and snot out as I could and dried out the cavity with kitchen towel. I then used a small paintbrush and brushed the entire inside with formaldehyde, including inside the neck and beak. Then I draped the shell over a short piece of plastic gutter, pushing a piece of wire coat hanger up the neck into the head and then into a small hole drilled into the gutter. This keeps the head up, displaying the white neck ring. Place in a cool place and cover with an old net curtain. Leave for around 4/5 weeks for the skin to dry out. Once dried, paint the whole inside with several coats of PVA. I sprinkled the PVA with sawdust whilst still wet, to give the whole affair some strength. When dried, bend the neck wire to lay alongside the back bone and PVA into place along with a small wood block with a saw cut from side to side. When using, I use a piece of steel banding about 18" long pushed into the saw cut, then into the ground. The banding is springy which allows the decoy to move. I carry the deeks in a plastic barrel which is also my seat. With careful handling, they will last but if it rains GET THEM IN. It sounds a bit long winded and it is a bit of a chore, you may wish to do this in winter too, less fly problems although they do work. It is easier to have an old chest freezer, just for game. Keep a dozen dead birds back and remove the legs, now just use them as deeks, taking them in and out as required. On the rotary, just use Hypa Flap thingy's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Harnser will no doubt reply and as the post is specifically addressed to him I won't rumble orn. I've done it many years ago. As far as I know you can't get formaldehyde any more, the same as you can't get other chemicals. From my experience deeks dressed in such a way soon get very bald. Edited August 23, 2015 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 If I can get photo's onto here I will, but after 8 years of careful handling they are not bald. I agree that they are a P.I.A. to do though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1 Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have used the same technique in the past for static decoys , the only real difference is that I use a syringe to inject the formaldehyde. I inject into all remaining meaty areas including into the skull after breasting and gutting the best birds I can find. I now only use this method to make decoys for the rotary , set them up on a simple wire frame to hold the wings out. This frame has a mounting included which clamps to the rotary arms. After they are set up on the frame they can be used within a week as they do not need to set hard as for statics. If kept dry they last for many months and only take 10 mins to replace. They are carried on a mounting board hung between the rear grab handles in the roof of my Landcruiser so are safe from damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 that is what i am looking for ...the magnet birds...........do the decoys retain their feathers well ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Ditchman, just put some birds in the fridge or freezer. It saves faffing about and trying to keep your decoys in good nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 i really like the idea of the preserved bird.......but the thing that puts me off is the state it gets into when wet or damp.............so it looks like it will have to be the freezer jobby... ...as im not going to win the A1 decoy comp'...after my "and others critic'"............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Harnser will no doubt reply and as the post is specifically addressed to him I won't rumble orn. I've done it many years ago. As far as I know you can't get formaldehyde any more, the same as you can't get other chemicals. From my experience deeks dressed in such a way soon get very bald. Try eBay. You can get anything there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1 Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 The preserved birds hold feathers well as long as you keep them reasonably dry and they are not abused. Formaldehyde ( or Formalin) is available from some chemists (eg Lloyds Pharmacy) you can order it for preserving specimens. The big advantage on the rotary is that they are light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 The preserved birds hold feathers well as long as you keep them reasonably dry and they are not abused. Formaldehyde ( or Formalin) is available from some chemists (eg Lloyds Pharmacy) you can order it for preserving specimens. The big advantage on the rotary is that they are light. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=171646862903&alt=web Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tignme Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Westly has described the exact method used by a guy Maurice richardson in a book by John Gray pigeon shooting published in 1988. i have the book in front of me now. Loads of good tips from an expert amature pigeon shooter that still apply today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exudate Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I work with formaldehyde every day. It's really nasty stuff. It works by forming covalent bonds between proteins, to 'fix' them. It's also a skin / lung sensitiser over time, and a suspected carcinogen. It's actually a gas in solution, so is easy to breath in. I wouldn't dream of using it to preserve my decoys. Do what Motty suggests and use frozen birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Dear Harnser, a while ago (last year) we were involved in a thread in which you contributed a brief story on using dead pigeons and preserving them in Formaldehyde ?...and smoothing off the plumage with your mrs hairspray !! could you give a more detailed discription of the process you went thro.. did you remove the guts did you remove the breasts did you remove the legs did you pack the voids with synthetic wadding did you wire the body into shape before preserving what fluid did you use for preserving how long did it take how long did it take to dry did you use Elnet hairspray (popular then) i think most of us agree that real birds are better as decoys....i just need to have a go at this ...particularly for a couple of decoys on the magnet.. kind regards ditchman Dear ditch. First off you need some clean shot pigeons without broken wings or broken necks. make a small cut around the vent and draw the birds . now you want to inject the whole of the bird all over with formalderhide . when you have injected the bird you need to stuff the cavity with old rags or better still cotton wool . set the bird into the postion you want ,i used to set in the head up or head down postion .you can use wire or elastic bands to do this . leave the bird in the postion you want it to set in ,it normally takes about 2 weeks to dry and set . spray with the wifes hair spray . make sure you cover the birds with a fly proof net to keep them off while they cure . It shouldnt take you more than 15 minutes per bird to do . when properly done they are fabulous decoys and will last for years if looked after . when dried they are incedibly light . good luck . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Westly has described the exact method used by a guy Maurice richardson in a book by John Gray pigeon shooting published in 1988. i have the book in front of me now. Loads of good tips from an expert amature pigeon shooter that still apply today. Just found this book brand new on eBay for £5.51 posted. Novice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShropshireSam Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I use Borax which is a preserving salt...much safer to handle than formaldehyde. I only use preserved birds on the magnet and have the benefit of always to hand and very light. Mine last about a year but would last longer if I looked after them better. If interested I can post details on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem223 Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 As Exudate says Formalhedye is pretty nasty stuff. I would sooner try Shropshire Sam's approach (above) of using Borax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I use Borax which is a preserving salt...much safer to handle than formaldehyde. I only use preserved birds on the magnet and have the benefit of always to hand and very light. Mine last about a year but would last longer if I looked after them better. If interested I can post details on here. please do so...............do blacksmiths use Borax as a wetting agent for forge welding metal ...anyone know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exudate Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 You can buy borax from Boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I use Borax which is a preserving salt...much safer to handle than formaldehyde. I only use preserved birds on the magnet and have the benefit of always to hand and very light. Mine last about a year but would last longer if I looked after them better. If interested I can post details on here. Yes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShropshireSam Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Yes please. Detailed in new post - Preserving pigeons with borax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Ditchman, just put some birds in the fridge or freezer. It saves faffing about and trying to keep your decoys in good nick. +1.always chuck after use but always return 6-8 to old freezer for next outing.......if use more than once,especially in summer they can get bit manky so just replenish from next bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbyduck Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 years ago I got a leaflet from WAGBI (basc) telling you how to make these deeks using formalin , rum stuff best to use it outside or a well ventilated area! I use it for setting deers feet for stick tops, also don't get it on your skin as it will cure it like leather. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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