oowee Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 I see you're in the Norfolk area. I googled Norfolk policy and found that Breckland Council, Dereham, require 40% of new build to be affordable housing. This will be negotiable through s106, offset, tenure blind and pepper pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 This will be negotiable through s106, offset, tenure blind and pepper pot. Thanks. All technical stuff and beyond me as the sole purpose of my post was to alert the OP to yet another factor to consider when developing land. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 A lot of the advice given is behind my knowledge base, but i would say it could be very area dependant as planners can be an absolute nightmare for absolutley no reason, so if u can find out unofficailly wot ur local dept is like first before u decide wether to approach them ur selves or get someone involved 1st. For an example a mate has just built a new house and they made him take 0.5m of the ridge hieght on a story and half house which affects the upstairs bedrooms as coomb cielings, the neighbouring plot just put in plans to same planner and they asked why they kept roofline so low (he was speaking to my mate) and told him to raise it. Just bonkers I think it was pointed out earlier but there should be a local area plan that u can check online to see wot sort of developments they are encouraging/allowing but thats probably more corncerned with indivdual building plots than whole new housing estates, which is wot ur talking about. There is a brown field site near me i've heard about been for sale quietly for years at pretty cheap money but the stipulation is a high % of social housing so no one want to bother with it Unless ur site is joining on to a village/town i doubt u'd get planning as ur talking about a whole new small village, unkess u just get a few building plots and build fancy houses with big gardens and mibee a horse paddock or 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Engineering firms are best at engineering. They mainly work 'for' the developers. You should choose your developer who in turn will choose their engineers. A 'chat with planning' is not the way to go on large development projects. Far better to open discussions from a position of strength for a development of this size. When the discussions start you want to be taking planning officer through the process of how you will be bringing forward the development. You will be taking them through the national planning guidance and local planning position and how it applies to your site, not the other way around. Planning staff will not have the experience or knowledge of the team that you take in. If this site were in MK it would be worth net £2m an acre. If you loose an acre of development to non use that's a lot of money to loose. Hence you tell them how its going to be. Yes and I am an engineer - however I do sit in an organisation that offers independent planning advice as well as a suite of other services including dealing with statutory undertakers and organising supply deals etc, transport assessments, masterplanning and landscaping as well as the core civils and structural engineering. We are more than capable of seeing a site through from land sale to completion if required. Depending on what the OP is after then this could be useful to him and is basically what he originally asked. It all depends on what the OP wants to do, whether to flip the site quickly or see it through to selling units. While I am not 100% on planning; delivery of these kind of sites is my bread and butter and I am more than happy to give a brief appraisal of the site and highlight any potential issues. While when it gets down to detail and the actual application I agree that the LA will need to be led, but a bit of research with regards local plan, allocated sites etc never killed anyone. It will also make it easier to engage with consultants if you can send them the basics and help drive their price down if they have some certainty over what they are dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Learn what you can about the Joint Core Strategy...... As you might make a 100 fold return on your land without even building then you'll understand that there's a bit of competition for permission and a few hoops to jump through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 There is another angle here, if you could get an agreeable price from a developer flog it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 My partners parents had a large plot down West Wales and build two houses, with permission for another two after. They said they felt the builders kept coming up with "new costs" and were never agreed and priced into the original plan, they said they didn't mind the first couple but it started to become often so they told them to do one and managed it themselves until finish. They haven't bothered with the second two due to all the bother and are now looking to sell their house with the permission attached. That's builders for you! You have to be 'in charge' at all times or they will be having you over. Before anyone comes back and says there are good and bad in every trade, yes I know, but.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 I highly doubt the op will be able to be in charge of a development covering 10 acres. Most customers have a totally unrealistic view of what they will get for their money and are awful at paying the final invoice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 the very best thing to do, is buy a garden plot with planning permission, run the project entirely, get the individual trades in, learn how the process works, then go bigger. its all about the cost of the plot, the labour cost and materials, waste removal, and then of course you have to sell it. not easy money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Listen to oowee. I have been involved in development of the scale you refer to (assume full resi at 10/acre = 100 houses if all developable), some bigger sites, some smaller and a mixture of resi and commercial since 2002. Developer's do development, partner one to maximise your land value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted January 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Gentlemen, thanks for all your advice and offers of help. Firstly, outlying planning permission was denied about 5 yrs ago due to the land being outside of the desired development area. however, laws change and restrictions are being relaxed slowly. there are a few houses along the road, a haulage yard, and a row of 1950's council houses at the end of the road, so it's not like we're planning on dumping a housing estate in the middle of a beauty spot even though it's a rural location. My father owns the land and this is his, and to a lesser degree my retirement plan. most is hay meadow, with approximately a quarter developed with industrial style units that were used by my father in his business before he semi retired and had them changed to private use to store his tractor collection. Water, electricity, and drainage are available on site because of this, although there is no mains gas supply to the whole street there are other alternatives. I am quite happy taking on the whole carpentry and internal works, the plan would be a slow development initially selling the houses to fund the next and so on. Rather than build a cramped estate i'd rather spread them out a bit in keeping with the area. All pie In the sky at the moment though, my father is 75, and is a bit gruff and head strong which doesn't help with negotiations, but at some point soon he's going to have to fully retire and pay some serious consideration to either selling up entirely or making a serious effort to develop the site, either option would see him comfortable in his remaining years, but it would be nice working alongside him on one last project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Heart or head family or business what an interesting mix. I would be thinking of a succession plan to get the ownership transferred. I would then look for an agent and development partner to push through the plan process to get the scheme in the plan. Whilst on paper doing your own scheme has more margin, in practice upfront commitment costs met by a partner are likely to deliver earlier and larger rewards. I did a scheme with St Mods in the Black Country where they optioned the land 10 years ahead of development and then worked on getting the land into the plan and development to follow. The owner walked away with £250k up front and a 40% share of the profit down the line. Left to himself it would still be a very similar site to the one you describe. Whatever you decide to do good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Heart or head family or business what an interesting mix. I would be thinking of a succession plan to get the ownership transferred. I would then look for an agent and development partner to push through the plan process to get the scheme in the plan. Whilst on paper doing your own scheme has more margin, in practice upfront commitment costs met by a partner are likely to deliver earlier and larger rewards. I did a scheme with St Mods in the Black Country where they optioned the land 10 years ahead of development and then worked on getting the land into the plan and development to follow. The owner walked away with £250k up front and a 40% share of the profit down the line. Left to himself it would still be a very similar site to the one you describe. Whatever you decide to do good luck. This asap. IHT would blow a big hole in any potential gains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 would the authorities want a site that drags from house to house, one at a time, to enable the houses to be paid for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) To do a site of the scale ur talking about will be a big ask for a novice, initailly even after u have fought for ur planning be a lot of surrveying work trying to figure out levels for roads, sewers etc,. For all u have power to the sheds at moment for that ammount of electricity and water u could need new water mains and power lines/sub station put in? Ur intial costs putting phase 1 of roads, sewers etc in could run into 00's of thousands before u've even thought about laying a house foundation (i heard of a 6 house development costing £200'k to put the services roads and sewerage in,sites were making 140 but still a couple left and down to 90k) Getting a big development company in u will/may lose some profit top line but it will save u a load of hassle and head aches and they will know wot there doing so there fee's may be covered by the site building fast enough to have its own machinery and full time squads of tradesmen all working effeciently moving from house to house. Rather than waiting on busy tradesmen coming off another job for a day or 2 at a time which in turn holds up the next tradesman Edited January 17, 2017 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 To do a site of the scale ur talking about will be a big ask for a novice, initailly even after u have fought for ur planning be a lot of surrveying work trying to figure out levels for roads, sewers etc,. For all u have power to the sheds at moment for that ammount of electricity and water u could need new water mains and power lines/sub station put in? Ur intial costs putting phase 1 of roads, sewers etc in could run into 00's of thousands before u've even thought about laying a house foundation (i heard of a 6 house development costing £200'k to put the services roads and sewerage in,sites were making 140 but still a couple left and down to 90k) Getting a big development company in u will/may lose some profit top line but it will save u a load of hassle and head aches and they will know wot there doing so there fee's may be covered by the site building fast enough to have its own machinery and full time squads of tradesmen all working effeciently moving from house to house. Rather than waiting on busy tradesmen coming off another job for a day or 2 at a time which in turn holds up the next tradesman I think its achievable, just start smaller, like trump did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 I think its achievable, just start smaller, like trump did. I'm not even sure it would be, not on that scale and if u were only building a few houses year would drag on for decades U'd have to be so orgasnised with logistics and paperwork nowadays plus any H&S stuff, building that many houses u'd have to look at becoming registered with the NhBC or some other org for quality assurance. It would definately need to be a very quick learning curve and n awful lot of cash up front and be years befoe u seen any profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southman1 Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi just Seen this post , my sister and her partner had a lage garden got permission to build a lage 4bebroom house with big bed rooms and a three quarter garage with a large utility room at the back good sized garden ,but before it was built they had a meeting with the building contractor,they came up with this if it it was built one time ,and on or under bugget the builder woud get a 5 percent on the sale price it seemed to work out well for them . The idear was to make sure the builder kept to his time ,and did not say theirs a hold up with the roofers or floor layers or kitchen fitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 nah, not my way, good wages ought to be enough, the profit would be mine, but fair play if it works for others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 some of you are still under the impression that we want to build a housing estate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 some of you are still under the impression that we want to build a housing estate well you did say 10 acres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) well you did say 10 acres true, but wouldn't you prefer a bit of room between you and your neighbour afterall, I might end up in one of them Edited January 19, 2017 by Paddy Galore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 true, but wouldn't you prefer a bit of room between you and your neighbour afterall, I might end up in one of them Except you will be expected to provide a mixture of affordable social housing as well not just big cash homes therefore your price point next to these drops and to maximize your profit you have to build more your idea of few nice house with room wont wash with planning......social percentage is part of planning.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 I believe that the government (or it could be local authorities) mandate minimum density for new housing to ensure that the land is being used effectively. I believe that it is the range 10-12 per acre. I could be totally wrong but remember having a discussion with somebody who was trying to develop a plot a few years ago. Personally I would do one house per acre but look like you could be building 40 of them. Could be quids in though. Remember us poor people when you are rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted January 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Except you will be expected to provide a mixture of affordable social housing as well not just big cash homes therefore your price point next to these drops and to maximize your profit you have to build more your idea of few nice house with room wont wash with planning......social percentage is part of planning.... I believe that the government (or it could be local authorities) mandate minimum density for new housing to ensure that the land is being used effectively. I believe that it is the range 10-12 per acre. I could be totally wrong but remember having a discussion with somebody who was trying to develop a plot a few years ago. Personally I would do one house per acre but look like you could be building 40 of them. Could be quids in though. Remember us poor people when you are rich. that could upset the apple cart, as far as i'm aware you only have to set aside a percentage for social housing if you build over 20 houses? I might be wrong but there's always the 2nd paddock available to put the riff raff in if you're right. AVB, you are hardly poor, tight maybe as I never did get that drink out of you Edited January 20, 2017 by Paddy Galore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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