joeainscow Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Is a gun dangerous? This may sound like a stupid question but it has been a big debate within my family and has caused several fallout's. My uncle was shot 3 times and killed by a man he gave permission to to shoot on his land after he told him he couldn't shoot on it anymore 3 and a half years ago. I've always supported the argument that a gun is only as dangerous as the person holding it. Yes it is designed to kill but only kill what it's pointed at and that is where the human comes in. I still shoot regularly and it hasn't put me off in any way. I know allot has been said recently in regards to tightening up the application process after the family shooting which has been in the news this christmas. I don't think this will help though. I have the same firearms officer as the man who shot my uncle and he spoke to and renewed his license a few weeks before the shooting. I don't think if he'd spoken to him the day before he'd have any doubt in renewing it. This is because some people just snap. Your thoughts on gun safety and the application/renewal process would be greatly appreciated. I've tried to kill two birds with one stone with this post. I'm interested in peoples views on applications ect but also i've had several emails regarding shooting on my families land. I don't just want to reply no or ignore people so i thought i'd explain it here. I'm happy for people to come out shooting with me on the land (just PM me) but please don't ask for permission. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clueless1 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 It is a tricky issue. Sorry to hear of your loss too, can't be easy. To me guns are dangerous. As simple as that. Even when it's someone I know and I know the gun is empty/clear I can't stand having them pointed at me. Sends a chill down my spine. Don't know how peope can do it for strangers while gun-fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Joe very sad story but like you say its the gun holder who is dangerous not the gun . I think in the hole the firearms appilication and sgc is good with the correct amount of checks to see if you are fit and well mentally. But I think in the five years of inbtween appilications there should be some way the NHS doctor could link up with the police if you go to your doctor for say depression . As alot can change in five years to your mental state that the granting officers did not know off. Regards OTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignoel Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 got to agree it is only the person holding it that makes it dangerous .lad down my way had his taken away 18 yrs ago for tyeing up his girlfriend and tortureing her fag burns and abuseing her he was given a 18mth prison term .16yrs on he reaplied for his shotti and was granted his shotti back then a 22 rimmi and a 223 .when he repeated the same sort of thing but only threats this time license gone as he did threaten to shoot her dad in a letter . and i think he would of carried it out as he realy has a short fuse even when he would ring a farmer to go shooting if he was refused for some reason the abuse he would give down the phone was unreal and surprised he had any land at all. potenialy [sp ] dangerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 101 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) My condolences to you and your family . As to the question are guns dangerous a very simple answer is NO . a gun is no different or more dangerous to any other piece of mechanical wonderment that mankind has invented . Pure and simple man is dangerous . I personaly face the prospect every day of my working life of being on the wrong end of a barrel , one of my collegues was shot in the leg with a sawn off shot gun , luckily only minor wounds , several others have been threatened with guns , but that doesnt stop me from owning guns , take away guns and there is a multitude of other items out there that can potentialy be used as a weapon . One of my collegues was hit in the face with can of fizzy drink which was swung in a plastic bag , all sorts of ways to make a weapon . There are to many stupid idiots on our roads who pass one test in the whole of their life and are granted a license to posses a potentialy fatal machine one which has caused more deaths than any firearm owned by licensed gun owners . Gun safety should be paramount in everyones mind , every time I take a rifle from the cabinet I check to ensure it is not loaded , even though it was put away unloaded , same applies to any firearm I look at any where be it shop , home , range or field . Accidents happen but accidents are avoidable , a persons mental state is not totaly predictable and that is where the danger lies . It is our responsibility as gun owners to be 100% safe , and long may it remain so . Dave Edited January 3, 2010 by Dave 101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Yes a gun is dangerous. The same way a brick, hammer, knife or car is, you do something stupid with it, someone is going to get hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popgun Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I think a car is more dangerous than a gun but as has been said it is the person using the gun or car that is in control a friend who is a RFD sold a gun and box of cartridges to a man who then shot himself dead the police gave my friend a hard time but they gave the man a shot gun cert so who was in the wrong ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Yes a gun is dangerous. The same way a brick, hammer, knife or car is, you do something stupid with it, someone is going to get hurt. That's the answer. Mind you there is a "thing" about guns; they have a magnetic effect on the "nut nuts" as the death of your uncle (and of course the Hungerford and Dunblane masacres) goes to show there are massive failings in the licensing process i.e. the process of keeping guns away from those who really shouldn't have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Well Joe first of all can I say I am sorry for your loss. In answer to your question - "Are guns dangerous"? - My own personal answer is "NO" not on their own, they are no more dangerous than a car or a pocket knife or a firework or a house brick or any of the other items that have been mentioned already, it is the person who holds and uses the gun (Or other item) that makes them dangerous. As for the tightening up of the Application process, I don't know how it could be tightened any further. (I will add here that if there were a way of tightening up the system I would be happy to see it bought in) If we are talking about using some sort of contact between the Firearms Officers and the Doctors to find a way of "flagging up SGC or FAC holders" in the case of mental illness we need to be careful as this could effect people who are treated for "depression" and given a short course of drugs in cases where they are maybe grieving following the death of a family member or a friend (A common form of "clinical depression"). This could stop them from applying for a SGC or FAC or result in them having their existing certificate and guns confliscated unfairy. (I had put on my application that I had been treated for depression many years ago and this did raise concerns with the FEO so I had to carefully explain that it was due to the loss of my mother in "unusual circumstances" - (My explanation was acceptable without having to check with my doctor) I am sure there are many times that applicants have to put down on their applications that they have been treated for "Depression" in the past (due to similar circumstances) but even the most learned of doctors will admit that "Clinical Depression" is a very grey area and sometimes hard to recognise or diagnose. We have to accept that the human brain is the most complexed piece of "machinery" ever known to man and can go wrong with very little warning before the danger signs are recognised by others. This is what would make a tightening up of the system such a difficult thing in my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toombsy Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I believe that guns aren't dangerous. They are simply metal and wood objects. It's the ammunition and gun owners who are dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 sorry for your loss, there are of lot of dangerous things out there ,but make the gun laws as tight as you like and people will still get killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Sounds like a truly tragic story and i hope the murderer got what was coming to him. Now as for if guns are dangers remember: "Guns don't kill people...............bullets do" George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 A gun is only a tool. It is only as dangerous as the next tool. All of them used incorrectly can kill. Spades, Axe's, Hammers, Cars, Aeroplanes etc... more people will be killed in a car accident than by legal and illegally held firearms in a year (not got proof of that but im certain it will be the case) Yet we dont hold the same fear when driving a car/walking down the street as we do when shooting or being around people with firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Mungler is right, even though I gather shooting is amongst the safest participation sports in the UK (if not the safest) guns will always attract the nutters. But not because they are 'dangerous' guns per se, it's about power. Guns make people feel powerful, and if you need a gun to make you feel powerful you are a potential time bomb under the right (or maybe wrong) circumstances. You only have to look at the poor pathetic 'emos' (or whatever they are called) that populate the Internet posing with guns (and knives for that matter) prior to massacring their schoolmates. There is nothing more pathetic than a man using his strength (whether or not enhanced by a gun) on people weaker, such as their wives or children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I agree that it is only the person that is dangerous and legislation can never control a persons actions. I am glad that we do have a degree of gun control though because I'm sure, without it, that every friday night would be like the wild west and every Saturday morning would be filled with the sounds of grief from family loss and booze fuelled remorse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Guns don't kill people, people kill people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Yes a gun is dangerous. The same way a brick, hammer, knife or car is, you do something stupid with it, someone is going to get hurt. I would agree with that. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) A gun is only dangerous if it does not function properly. People are dangerous for the same reasons. A safe gun in a the hands of a person who is not functioning properly is very dangerous. The guns that the police shoot people with are quite safe really! Mobile phones are not dangerous but they could get people shot by the police. http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/4828446.A...rs_in_Weymouth/ Edited January 3, 2010 by rjimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Guns don't kill people, people kill people True Statement. it's people who's dangerous, not the gun. As for tightening the application process....waste of time, tight enough as it is, you don't need a license to get a gun, that's common knowledge, the only one's that do are the likes of us, BJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Guns don't kill people, people kill people I was under the impression that it has long been established that infact Rappers Do. On a serious note though, guns are massivly dangerous, if not for what they can/have/will do, but for the stigma that goes with them. Yobbos don't carry bricks/spades/hammers, its knifes&guns, the things that have the fear stigma attached. I think its the concentration of energy that can be focused at a distant objects that make guns so dangerous, nothing else can do what a gun does, you can only throw a knife so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 There definitely needs,obviously to be a way of assessing the suitability for someone to own a gun.Hopefully the harmless ones with a bout of depression due to lifes pressures will be differentiated from those with anger issues who have a low threshold for violence.I think we all know someone who really ought not to have a gun but could charm an FEO into granting a ticket. These types I doubt go to the GP for help so would be more difficult to detect. They could equally use a knife or a baseball bat but a gun does give them a really good tool to do the job if they so wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Yes a gun is dangerous. The same way a brick, hammer, knife or car is, you do something stupid with it, someone is going to get hurt. Thats the most simplistic way of describing it. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Yes a gun is dangerous. The same way a brick, hammer, knife or car is, you do something stupid with it, someone is going to get hurt. I think that statement covers it nicely. Anything can be dangerous if you want it to be. I worry slightly that the certification process may one day be tightened to the point that I can no longer own guns. I don't have a clean record and my charge could be taken as violent, although that wasn't my intent at the time. I'd never hurt anyone unless they were trying to hurt me or someone else, and I never have either. How can you tell what's really going on in a persons head? At the end of the day if they talk a good game and have a clean record how can you decide they're unfit to hold a firearm, a driving license, or anything else with an element of responsibility attatched to it? Things like this will always happen. Unfortunately we don't have the means to read minds just yet. I think all that can be done is to offer such harsh punishments that only people willing to take their own lives after the deed is done will think it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bg55599 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Sorry to hear about your loss. Guns are only as dangerous as the people who are holding them. They are something that should be treated with respect as and a privalige. I feel that the application process will always be a little flawed, especialy with reguard to peoples mental health. I was refused my first shotgun certifiacate on the grounds that i posed serious risk to public safety and the peace, yet i have never been introuble with the police and have never made threats or touched another person in a violent way. I was rejected because i had chosen to attend anger managment courses. i had a partner who suffered with very bad depression and would never reason with you and wasnt very understanding, rather than get worked up by this i thought i would be responsible and try to learn some new skills so it didnt get to me, prevension is better than cure and all that.... because i had acted in a way that i felt was the most responsible way to act, they put 2 and 2 together and got it wrong in my opinion! i waited paitently for 2 years, proved to them that i wasnt the risk they thought i was and bing bang bosh.... got the liscence, No questioning there decision, just respecting it and following their guidance. The chances of someone who actualy has issues asking for help is not one that anyone can put a figue on to, often the crazys of society dont ask for help or dont identify that there is a problem. Likewise the number of guns that are not liscenced or are stolen or aquired through other means are in my opinion, the guns that pose more of a risk than the ones owned by people who follow the rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Guns are no more dangerous than any other inanimate object . Add the human element and you have a deadly weapon . As you would with a hammer or an axe . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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