crippy Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Why everyone,shooting at such short distances with these hmr's????the further the range the better the shot the cz 1.7 is quite capable of knocking of rabbits at 230yards....!!!!!!!!!! im using a busnell 3-12x56 high contrast scopes and with the help of a range finder which never fails to be spot on. Everyone agree?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 i agree with a rangefinder, and lots of practice yes - but you would have to be on a fairly calm day to stop too much drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Why everyone,shooting at such short distances with these hmr's????the further the range the better the shotthe cz 1.7 is quite capable of knocking of rabbits at 230yards....!!!!!!!!!! im using a busnell 3-12x56 high contrast scopes and with the help of a range finder which never fails to be spot on. Everyone agree?? You wander into the territory of what is possible from the calibre and/or the shooter. 230 yard HMR shots are not everyday shots for most and pushing your luck a bit, but power wise the HMR still has plenty at that distance to knock down a rabbit! And.... so what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Why everyone,shooting at such short distances with these hmr's????the further the range the better the shotthe cz 1.7 is quite capable of knocking of rabbits at 230yards....!!!!!!!!!! im using a busnell 3-12x56 high contrast scopes and with the help of a range finder which never fails to be spot on. Everyone agree?? The skill in shooting live animals is to ensure the cleanest possible kill. Why bother either missing, causing injury or slow death, just so you can show off the range of your HMR? If I see a rabbit at 200 yards, I use my skill in trying to get closer to it without it spotting me and shooting it at under 100 yards. This way I know I am not just shooting to show off that I shot a 200 yard rabbit. I get the feeling you aspire to own a 'sniper rifle' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 1.7" is a big caliber, you ought to be shooting 10000 yards with that. The rabbits wouldn't stand a chance against anti material ammunition How do you know your range finder 'never fails to be spot on', what do you compare it against? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Get a target (paper) Put it out at 200yards. Put 10 shots all into a 1.5inch group. Post it on here. but then you would need to be honest Then and only then would i believe the calibre is a 200 yard plus tool. Consistantly no ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez325 Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 (edited) 1.7 HMR would be a huge calibre- maybe you should be shooting Elephants with that sort of knock down power Im guessing you mean .17 HMR and to shoot live quarry at 230 yards is irresponsile to say the least - I wouldnt usually shoot a Fox with my 222 Centre Fire at that sort of range I Usually try to call them in or stalk a little closer and the .222 has a lot more ft/lbs and velocity than a baby HMR - field craft is a better option- get close and make sure the intended quarry is despatched in a humane way- ie one shot = one kill Les Edited June 8, 2010 by Lez325 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace32 Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 must be very,very little breeze or wind where you shoot mate,that distance with an hmr is poss on a perfect day with a bit of luck,but it is a silly shot to be trying on a day to day basis,might aswell just get a 223 or bigger,which defeats the object,me and my mate find the wind doesnt half afect the little bullet,ian ps.looking for an hmr,mates fed up me useing his all the time,must be local to me though,ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax55 Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 i must be iresponsable aswell then as i too regulary take 200yd rabbits with the hmr. its not because i am showing off though, its simply because i can. there is also a need to on the estate as i am having trouble with people running their dogs after them and they have become super wary. if shots are 100yd or under i use the lr as thats its trademark speaciality. what would be the point in me having the hmr only for me to shoot it under 100yds when it has so much more capability. it would be like using the .223 only at 100yds whats the point in that??? my rifles are the tools of my trade and i know their, and my capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) I have shot rabbits out to 180 yards with the 17HMR but they have been "one offs" just to test myself and my capabilities. The HMR is well capable of delivering the "killer punch" to a rabbit well beyond that distance in my opinion but if we are going to concentrate on pushing the boundaries to the limits of any rifle then are we not liable to start losing the skills of fieldcraft? Surely a big part of shooting live quarry is the challenge of pitting your whits and skills against the quarry in order to get to within a sensible enough range to be sure of a quick and humane kill! Good marksmanship is a great skill (Some might even say a gift) but so too is good fieldcraft! Edited June 10, 2010 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 I've never really shot rabbits beyond the 125-150 range. I need to get a zero for the further out distances and then practise what are you guys going for? I've been meaning to try the following "A better way to zero a .17 HMR rifle is to put the 17 grain bullet 1.5" high at 100 yards, for a zero range of 145 yards. It would then hit about 0.9" high at 50 yards, 0.3" low at 150 yards, and 5.5" low at 200 yards. The maximum point blank range (+/- 1.5") of the cartridge would be about 165 yards, at which range the bullet retains about 90 ft. lbs.of energy, enough to remain effective on the smaller varmints." Field craft can be fairly straight forward. And if there's a lot of rabbits there's always one that decides to sit tight rather than run...allowing you to get a nice close shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 1.7 HMR would be a huge calibre- maybe you should be shooting Elephants with that sort of knock down power Im guessing you mean .17 HMR and to shoot live quarry at 230 yards is irresponsile to say the least - I wouldnt usually shoot a Fox with my 222 Centre Fire at that sort of range I Usually try to call them in or stalk a little closer and the .222 has a lot more ft/lbs and velocity than a baby HMR - field craft is a better option- get close and make sure the intended quarry is despatched in a humane way- ie one shot = one kill Les Well said Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 its all down to whatever youre comfortable with - how good a shot you are, and how accurate your equipment is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 its all down to whatever youre comfortable with - how good a shot you are, and how accurate your equipment is You have a valid point there Ozzy but not all people are "marksmen" or as accurate in their shooting as they think they might be, plus, if we are going to be honest we all pull the occasional shot now and then!. We also have to remember that shooting at paper targets at long ranges is one thing but taking on live quarry is a totally different ball game. When you are taking on live quarry you should show it respect and not even think about pulling the trigger unless you are fairly sure of a quick clean kill. This (in my opinion) counts whatever the quarry you are taking on, regardless of if it is a majestic Red Deer Stag or the common Brown Rat, it is still a living thing that should be dispatched both quickly and humanely without any unessary suffering. To continue taking on these rediculously long shots with a 17HMR (A rifle that is capable of some surprisingly accurate shooting over quite long ranges) and pushing the rifle out to and beyong its limits should not be encouraged as (In my opinion) to do so we are risking losing what fieldcraft abilities we have! Do we really want every young gun going out to try all of these really long shots and possibly leaving "runners" to suffer and die in pain while they could be better spending their time learning descent fieldcraft abilities??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 There's a lot of truth in what your saying Frenchie. Another point is that if you wound an animal, the further away the shot the longer it will take you to get over to it and dispatch it which isn't on either. I was thinking more along the lines of 150-200 yard shooting...I'd say anything over that it pushing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 You have a valid point there Ozzy but not all people are "marksmen" or as accurate in their shooting as they think they might be, plus, if we are going to be honest we all pull the occasional shot now and then!. We also have to remember that shooting at paper targets at long ranges is one thing but taking on live quarry is a totally different ball game. When you are taking on live quarry you should show it respect and not even think about pulling the trigger unless you are fairly sure of a quick clean kill. This (in my opinion) counts whatever the quarry you are taking on, regardless of if it is a majestic Red Deer Stag or the common Brown Rat, it is still a living thing that should be dispatched both quickly and humanely without any unessary suffering. To continue taking on these rediculously long shots with a 17HMR (A rifle that is capable of some surprisingly accurate shooting over quite long ranges) and pushing the rifle out to and beyong its limits should not be encouraged as (In my opinion) to do so we are risking losing what fieldcraft abilities we have! Do we really want every young gun going out to try all of these really long shots and possibly leaving "runners" to suffer and die in pain while they could be better spending their time learning descent fieldcraft abilities??? That makes a lot of sense to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deputy dog Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) You have a valid point there Ozzy but not all people are "marksmen" or as accurate in their shooting as they think they might be, plus, if we are going to be honest we all pull the occasional shot now and then!. We also have to remember that shooting at paper targets at long ranges is one thing but taking on live quarry is a totally different ball game. When you are taking on live quarry you should show it respect and not even think about pulling the trigger unless you are fairly sure of a quick clean kill. This (in my opinion) counts whatever the quarry you are taking on, regardless of if it is a majestic Red Deer Stag or the common Brown Rat, it is still a living thing that should be dispatched both quickly and humanely without any unessary suffering. To continue taking on these rediculously long shots with a 17HMR (A rifle that is capable of some surprisingly accurate shooting over quite long ranges) and pushing the rifle out to and beyong its limits should not be encouraged as (In my opinion) to do so we are risking losing what fieldcraft abilities we have! Do we really want every young gun going out to try all of these really long shots and possibly leaving "runners" to suffer and die in pain while they could be better spending their time learning descent fieldcraft abilities??? Frenchie i couldn't agree more with what you said. You basically put down what i wanted to say. As Clint Eastwood once said in a film of his. A MANS GOT TO KNOW HIS LIMITATIONS. And i think thats a great line every shooter should keep in mind. No matter how good or capable they think they are, with their guns. It still boils down to respect for their quarry and clean kills virtually every time. Edited June 10, 2010 by deputy dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 You have a valid point there Ozzy but not all people are "marksmen" or as accurate in their shooting as they think they might be, plus, if we are going to be honest we all pull the occasional shot now and then!. We also have to remember that shooting at paper targets at long ranges is one thing but taking on live quarry is a totally different ball game. When you are taking on live quarry you should show it respect and not even think about pulling the trigger unless you are fairly sure of a quick clean kill. This (in my opinion) counts whatever the quarry you are taking on, regardless of if it is a majestic Red Deer Stag or the common Brown Rat, it is still a living thing that should be dispatched both quickly and humanely without any unessary suffering. To continue taking on these rediculously long shots with a 17HMR (A rifle that is capable of some surprisingly accurate shooting over quite long ranges) and pushing the rifle out to and beyong its limits should not be encouraged as (In my opinion) to do so we are risking losing what fieldcraft abilities we have! Do we really want every young gun going out to try all of these really long shots and possibly leaving "runners" to suffer and die in pain while they could be better spending their time learning descent fieldcraft abilities??? i totally agree about the clean kills frenchie, i had a run in with a friend this week over something similar. im not advocating everyone and anyone goes out and starts taking 300 yard pot shots, far from it, if you cant say with 99% certainty (taking into consideration pulled shots, etc) its going to be a kill then you shouldnt be doing it. the first ting that i think about before taking a shot is if ill get a clean kill, and if i dont how quickly will i be able to get to the target and/or get another shot into it. if i cant answer those with "almost certain" and "quickly" i dont take the shot. however i will say plenty of people do have the marksmanship skills to take these kind of shots. add to that its an extremely accurate round, and with plenty of practice, a 200 yard shot on a rabbit shouldnt be a problem. yes, paper shooting isnt the same as live targets, i agree, but thats the only way to practice. something that does help is setting out random targets (coke cans, bottles etc) at different ranges, instead of just a flat paper target. at the moment im limiting my shots to 150 yards on rabbits at most, simple reason is im not confident enough with the gun yet; maybe in time i will up that range, maybe ill decide not to, but if i do itll be with the same rules - almost certain kill, and a quick follow up shot if necessary. as for field craft, well thats up to the individual and i dont think it is part of this argument that keeps being dragged up every 10 mins with hmrs. bear in mind it could easily be argued that no-one needs a centrefire for fox, that they only need to use "proper field craft" to get it into 50 yards then whack it in the head with a .22lr sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 I appreciate this thread was most probably put up here to inflame but I've gotta have my two penny worth... One for the BIG UP boys on here who shoot ikle wabbits out at 200 + yards, why so far? They’re harmless. Cape buffalo on the other hand, one if not THE most dangerous animal to stalk are mostly shot at very short range i.e. less than 50 yds...it’s all about fieldcraft...oh and balls! If you want to prove what a great shot you are at long ranges why not simply punch paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 Why everyone,shooting at such short distances with these hmr's????the further the range the better the shotthe cz 1.7 is quite capable of knocking of rabbits at 230yards....!!!!!!!!!! im using a busnell 3-12x56 high contrast scopes and with the help of a range finder which never fails to be spot on. Everyone agree?? This comes round every so often......... Zapp/Wookie can you find the link to the PW hmr thread plz? anyone who tries to shoot bunnies at 230 with a hmr so they can puff there chest out then brag about it on a public forum is not showing shooting in a responsible light....... so no i dont agree like Highlander says if you cant get close enough to make a clean shot at a sensible range dont pot shot at live animals with a chance to inflict suffering for no reason other than you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 I don't tend to take shots at that range but what I will say is the bullet being a Vmax and fast expanding does give you fair bit of room for error certainly on bunnies and magpies etc it is rare to hit and not kill them. Actually the only two bunnies I've had run were the other night at about 5 yards because I didn't aim over them. Did pick them up dead though so they didn't last long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax55 Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 You have a valid point there Ozzy but not all people are "marksmen" or as accurate in their shooting as they think they might be, plus, if we are going to be honest we all pull the occasional shot now and then!. We also have to remember that shooting at paper targets at long ranges is one thing but taking on live quarry is a totally different ball game. When you are taking on live quarry you should show it respect and not even think about pulling the trigger unless you are fairly sure of a quick clean kill. This (in my opinion) counts whatever the quarry you are taking on, regardless of if it is a majestic Red Deer Stag or the common Brown Rat, it is still a living thing that should be dispatched both quickly and humanely without any unessary suffering. To continue taking on these rediculously long shots with a 17HMR (A rifle that is capable of some surprisingly accurate shooting over quite long ranges) and pushing the rifle out to and beyong its limits should not be encouraged as (In my opinion) to do so we are risking losing what fieldcraft abilities we have! Do we really want every young gun going out to try all of these really long shots and possibly leaving "runners" to suffer and die in pain while they could be better spending their time learning descent fieldcraft abilities??? i couldnt agree more. good fieldcraft is an absoulute must but so is good marksmanship principals to deliver that perfect shot. as an ex infantryman id like to think i know what im doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 I don't tend to take shots at that range but what I will say is the bullet being a Vmax and fast expanding does give you fair bit of room for error certainly on bunnies and magpies etc it is rare to hit and not kill them. Actually the only two bunnies I've had run were the other night at about 5 yards because I didn't aim over them. Did pick them up dead though so they didn't last long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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