al4x Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 its legal with your FAC but if you aren't happy just use a shotgun, for humane despatch doesn't matter what caliber or what its loaded with. I've seen a big fallow buck done with 6's from a 20 bore and at 6 feet makes no difference its very humane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 If u are really that worried,call the deer society,and or ure flo, I've put down countless cows calves pigs and sheep(under express farmer request),in the interest of preventing further suffering of the animal, ie rta two headed calves,half eaten sheep,fighting pigs, broken backs on a cow, all things that give the animal immediate need for immediate dispatch,there is the provision in the slaughter laws for this if u are ending extreme suffering.. But obviously just that,not hunting them etc. Now if ure deer is walkin round,u risk the chance (if u kill it) that u could be done. Call the deer society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Yes,i would have shot it.I dont like to see any animal in distress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 But your FAC HAS to be conditioned to allow either shooting of deer OR humane dispatch (or both). Or you are committing an offence. This is where you might trip up, not on the calibre. Sorry Apache, but when it comes to deer you do not need any such condition! The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 you've got to love some guys on here....LIBS...i wasnt poking at the law, i was just raising concern to a PW member (who often makes a post that i enjoy reading) that the law can get very picky on things..especially when a past like this is written so openly..there is always a chance someone could 'dob him in' as seen before on here! KATASH.. valid point about the badger, this just shows how the law can be so stupid. REDGUM..we all know that a .22 and a .222 are more than capable of killing a deer, but the fact is, you are not allowed to shoot a deer with anything less than a .240. what if guys with .22 shot a deer and then claimed that it was not looking too good so they just despatched it?! and do you think the law is really.."doesnt matter if its not on my licence or i dont have the condition, i can shoot it" Personally id like an opinion of an FEO on this one..If it was all to be done above board, would it be legal for frenchie to despatch a deer with a rifle .222 or lower..?Q?Q!!! we are trusted to have firearms and if you dont respect that trust put in you, IMO you shouldnt have the privealge. With regards to current situation frenchie, personally, id keep an eye on it and if it is still seen to be suffering in a few days with no improvement then ask your mate to do the honours. dont need an feo to tell me its legal to do it with a 222 or a sharp knife if it comes to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 When it comes to the crunch just nail it and keep quiet if you don't feel happy about the legality. Personally if something is sufferring I couldn't give a monkeys what my FAC says, if shooting it will put it out of its misery then that's what I'll do every time. There is next to no chance of being caught and if you are the possibility of you being punished for putting a sufferring animal down is slim too. If you're still uncomfortable then ring your FEO and tell him the situation so he can give you the nod to carry on (which I'm sure he will). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 well do we have an update on the doe pete ? did you have a look at it again today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 you've got to love some guys on here.... Personally id like an opinion of an FEO on this one..If it was all to be done above board, would it be legal for frenchie to despatch a deer with a rifle .222 or lower..?Q?Q!!! we are trusted to have firearms and if you dont respect that trust put in you, IMO you shouldnt have the privealge. The "opinion" of an FEO would be about the last thing I'd like... P.S - Redgum has it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Oh how I love reading all the experts moralising and giving their expert opinion on a subject they so obviously have no knowledge of. Please read Redgums post #17 which sums up the law correctly with the one proviso posted by Apache at #18. One's fac conditions overide (for want of a better word) the The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007. Which is why those of us that put down deer and other sick and injured wild and domestic animals and wish to stay within the law have our fac's so conditioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 well do we have an update on the doe pete ? did you have a look at it again today Yes Cocker my friend we do have an update. I have been out this morning and spent ages (Almost 3 hours) looking for the doe in an area of thicket no bigger than about 1.5 acres. I eventually found her laying up in some thicke dying nettles not too far from where I last saw her yesterday (It was only her head movements that gave her location away). She saw me moving and seemed a little more alert but was still no quicker or steadier looking in her movements than yesterday but did not seen to be in any severe discomfort. I have to say that she did not look like she had lost any significant amount of weight! Because of this I have decided that I will wait and see what she looks like tomorrow as there has been no noticable deterioration in her condition. If however there is no sighs of improvement then I will have to have a more careful think about the situation. I have updated the landowner and she has told me that the decision lies squarely in my hands but if I think that the animal is still in discomfort tomorrow I should think about doing the "kindest thing" for the animal. If it does come to that you will just have to accept that I will not say if I was able to get my mate with his .243 out or not, you will just be told that the animal was "humanely destroyed" and I will not answer any questions about it, so i hope that you will just accept that I have done what I decided was for the best! Thank you all for your interest and advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 If it does come to that you will just have to accept that I will not say if I was able to get my mate with his .243 out or not, you will just be told that the animal was "humanely destroyed" and I will not answer any questions about it, so i hope that you will just accept that I have done what I decided was for the best! Sometimes that's the best way on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 (edited) well pete i think that any one that knows you or has followed any of your post will know you have the animals best intrests at heart and will do the right thing what ever that is and your quite right not to say any more than you have to best of luck andy Edited October 29, 2010 by cocker3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted October 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Thanks for your "Vote of Confidence" Andy. I am just about to exercise our dog and then go out to check on the animal. I will take my Camcorder and if the animal is showing any signs of a recovery I will try to get a bit of video footage, if however things have gone downhill at all I will not be using the camcorder mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Oh how I love reading all the experts moralising and giving their expert opinion on a subject they so obviously have no knowledge of. Please read Redgums post #17 which sums up the law correctly with the one proviso posted by Apache at #18. One's fac conditions overide (for want of a better word) the The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007. Which is why those of us that put down deer and other sick and injured wild and domestic animals and wish to stay within the law have our fac's so conditioned. No deer condition is required for Humane despatch of deer, you can even hit it over the head with a log if that will bring it's suffering to an end, this is precisely why the law was changed so that anyone walking past a deer with their .22lr (etc.) could end its suffering without fear of losing their FAC. A condition of humane despatch of ANY deer is not required on any FAC or SGC! Slaughtering, hunting etc is a different matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 you're worrying too much Frenchie just do it, If its laid up and you are getting close and its not moving but knows you are there sounds like it has a problem. Just bear in mind when handling it there are some diseases deer can get that are a bit iffy and some that are notifiable so follow basic hygene precautions and best option is to bury an unwell beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesbach Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 its been interesting to follow this post. i can man up and say ive learned a few things about deer despatching with rifle that i didnt know(but i dont shoot deer so have no reason to possibly). If i was in frenchies shoes i would probably phone FEO for 'the nod' and then go from there or phone the friend, we can all see that he is trying to do things by the book. As far as burying the animal (if it was destroyed), in our day and age..can we bury anything anymore!? i know you cant bury any livestock on a farm and have to pay for its disposal...does this change for deer..?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 its a wild animal you could in theory leave it under a hedge, there are different regs to exempt farmers from having to go round picking up dead wildlife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted October 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 For those that have been following this thread here is the latest (And unfortunately final) update. While I was out exercising my dog this morning I got a phone call from the landowner saying that there was a roe deer laying near the corner of the paddock which, when approached by one of her dogs did not seem to interested or keen to get up and out of the way. She shouted the dog back but even the sound of her shouting to the dog did not make the deer move. This made me think that things may have taken a turn for the worse so i returned home and tried to phone my mate. He was unfortunately not available at such short notice so I had to get my rifle out and was on my way to the farm. Finding the animal was no problem at all as it had not moved from where it was earlier this morning. As I approached it I could clearly see that it was struggling to hold it's head up let alone try to get up and run so there was no other option than to humanely destroy the animal there and then. My decision was based solely on the fact that in my opinion the animal was seffering needlessly and that it should be saved from any further suffering. I took one shot from about 15 yards firing straight into the brain by aiming at an imaginary cross formed by two doagonal lines from each ear to the opposite eye. From the angle I was firing from the bullet was in a direct line with the neck and spine and did not make an exit wound The carcass was recovered with the Gator and has been incinerated in a huge pile of wood and straw. (We chose this option to dispose of the carcass as we did not know what was wrong with the animal) I would now rather not be asked to answer any questions about it. I did not enjoy doing this, I did not get any pleasure out of shooting a deer in this manner and it is something that, even though it was necessary I would not like to have to do too often. Please respect this last paragraph guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 You did the right thing. If I had been in your shoes over the last few days I would have handled it in exactly the same manner - monitor condition then take appropriate action. Good man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 You did the right thing mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 A responsible and satisfactory end to the poor beasts suffering, its not nice but well done for being a man about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Frenchieboy, If not the most pleasant of tasks, your account of this incident has shown true care and husbandry in the humane dispatch of this sick animal. Well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Thanks for sharing that, you did the right thing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Very well handled from start to finish IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Well done Frenchie hopefully some people will learn from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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