CZ550Kevlar Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Just read on Virgin news that they have announced the Policeman involved in the G20 protest death will charged with manslaughter, although the next question is will it go ahead and go full circle and will he be found guilty? or will the trial be dropped or skulk away on some technicality they seem to find in these cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Trial by media again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Trial by media again Nope trial by jury based on the evidence that they tried so hard to hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Its about time they refused to police protests and just let them get on with it, this guy pushed a drunk who then fell over how you deal with crowds without pushing anyone is beyond me. How you know someone is 5x the drink drive limit and can hardly stand which is why he is ignoring requests to get back in the early afternoon is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Best of luck to the policeman. Hope it works out well for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 lets hope he gets tried like a normal civilian, instead of hiding behind the "job" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderdude Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Wish him all the best with his trial. It has been a media frenzy from the start with a short piece of video showing the push. What was said or done prior to this, had he tripped prior to challenging the officers? Who knows... Let's hope he us tried in the same manner as any other person. That way he will get a fair trial and not be subject to a witchhunt by the media and the great unwashed who attend these types of protest. In my opinion, they've no chance of a conviction on the current evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Trial by media again Nah.... trial by Pigeon Watch.... much fairer shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Some policemen are bullies. Perhaps this policeman is a bully. I don't know. However based upon what I have seen (although I admit I might not have seen it all) I don't think he should be prosecuted and I don't expect him to be convicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) The man is a thug and deserves to be put on trial . Harnser . Edited May 24, 2011 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 There is sufficient to charge and prosecute him. There is a case to answer. Whether there is enough to convict him - I will wait for the verdict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 There is sufficient to charge and prosecute him. There is a case to answer. Whether there is enough to convict him - I will wait for the verdict. There certainly seems to be a case to answer IF what the media have reported is true and that can never be taken for granted. As one of the few on here who has been in this type of situation and have the scars to prove it, I know that there are many issues that have not yet been raised. I hope that the guy gets a fair trial,it will be a lot harder for him than most suspects, and the victim's (belatedly) loving family are satisfied with the verdict though unless it carries some monetary value I doubt that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I agree with Harnser 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 There is a big difference between a policeman feeling somebody's collar and having to use a certain amount of force to make an arrest ,than To push an innocent man over, who was just walking down the street to go home . This action by the policeman is nothing but thuggish behavior . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 The man is a thug and deserves to be put on trial . Harnser . its very interesting coming to that conclusion after 20 seconds of mobile phone footage from an officer acting in a riot situation. And thats what everyone on their computers is doing assuming the bloke is a thug in uniform and effectively sending him down and ruining his life based on that 20 second clip. Its why I'm not in the police because having asked someone a few times to get out of the way and back off in that situation I'd have done very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 This is nothing to do with trial by media, it is bringing a charge based on evidence considered and reviewed during an inquest. That evidence showed that the police officer has a case to answer and thus the cps decided to prosecute. The poor guy wasn't even involved in the protests, yet he was knocked down from behind and died. If I knocked someone down in the street and they died, I think I would be facing a manslaughter trial, just because the person doing the pushing was a police officer, doesn't mean they should automatically be excused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPUK Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 When ever the Met is mentioned I always have this vision of their mentality. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 its very interesting coming to that conclusion after 20 seconds of mobile phone footage from an officer acting in a riot situation. And thats what everyone on their computers is doing assuming the bloke is a thug in uniform and effectively sending him down and ruining his life based on that 20 second clip. Its why I'm not in the police because having asked someone a few times to get out of the way and back off in that situation I'd have done very similar. In my opinion this man is a thug and what he did is unforgivable . Yes it was a 20 second video clip ,but what it also shows is that no other policeman in the throng was bothered by the victim and were quite satisfied for him to walk ahead of them peacefully . If you look at the video you will see that the policeman who pushed the man over came from a way back to do it ,a determind act to push the poor man over . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 you also don't see the baton strike that he did so there was more to the altercation, the man probably wouldn't have fallen over had he not been 5 times the DD limit. Its all speculation on what really happened how many times he was told to move on and walking slowly infront of the police line. Realistically he should have been nicked and taken from there but if you are dealing with idiots all day which these guys were you have to work out the really drunk idiot from the rest while watching out for incoming bricks and fire extinguishers that could kill you. The day you can't push someone back in a riot is the day you might as well just let them burn and smash up London Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 you also don't see the baton strike that he did so there was more to the altercation, the man probably wouldn't have fallen over had he not been 5 times the DD limit. Its all speculation on what really happened how many times he was told to move on and walking slowly infront of the police line. Realistically he should have been nicked and taken from there but if you are dealing with idiots all day which these guys were you have to work out the really drunk idiot from the rest while watching out for incoming bricks and fire extinguishers that could kill you. The day you can't push someone back in a riot is the day you might as well just let them burn and smash up London It dosent matter that the victim was 5 times over the limit or that he had a heart problem and proberbly wouldnt have fallen over had he been sober . The fact is that he was deliberately pushed to the ground for no reason and consequently died of his injuries . Do you really think that at the time of the push that the police were in fear of their lives from a riot situation . ? Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) quote---how you deal with crowds without pushing anyone is beyond me--- the footage ive seen when he pushes him dont show him in a shoulder to shoulder surge, he is just on his own. Edited May 24, 2011 by peejay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I'm not a great lover of barristers in crown court, it's all just a game and the real people get lost in the whole show. Manslaughter is often more difficult to prove as a charge than murder. In this case I would iamgine the prosecution will go for constructive manslaughter which is committing an unlawful dangerous act which causes death. to prove that the prosecution needs to prove 4 things that the jury can agree on beyond reasonable doubt. 1) An unlawful act must take place by the officer, 2) the officer (defendant) must do an unlawful act involving pre-intent or recklessness, 3) the act must be dangerous 4) the act must cause the death of the victim. A jury will need to consider whether an officer acting under the circumstances and striking out at a man walking away with his hands in his pockets hits the above points. A tough one for normal people (jury, not PW members)to decide as the defence/prosecution will fudge the scenario to suit. As for hiding behind the job, I think the opposite happens in the case of police - to show being whiter than white, and to bow to the press frenzy, cases like this are often brought when they would never have been if the accused was mr joe public. Whatever happens, someone has died and many lives are in tatters because of it. It's fine to have strong opinions either way but try and remember that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno 357 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Send him to Strangeways general population Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Having looked at the film the Guardian had I’d say this; Tomlinson appears slow and stumbling, drunk as we now know. The officers look like they were telling him to get a move on out of the way, something he didn’t do or at least not quickly enough. PC Harman is seen coming in from behind and pushing/hitting Tomlinson who falls to the ground rolls over and talks to some other officers before getting up (with help)and moving off. Later he has a heart attack and dies. A fitter, less frail man would probably have been alright and it would have gone no further. Tomlinson was an alcoholic, sleeping rough and obviously not much use to himself or anyone else. I’ve seen a few people in my time go a similar course and quite frankly I think it’s such a waste of life made all the more pointless in that it’s self inflicted. I’m afraid I’ve little time to grieve for such people. As an aside I see his widow is suing the Met over the incident so maybe she’ll eventually get some benefit from being married to such a waster. I see the family are now rallying round and saying what a good man/dad/step dad he was but they had kicked him out of the family home and he’d not been back for 6 months apparently, mmmm. PC Harman on the other hand might be all sorts of things but as we’ve never met I really can’t say. However on such a day when the police are trying hard to do their job (‘protect and serve’ springs to mind ) against a bunch of potentially riotous people some of whom may well be from ‘rent a mob’ out to do as much damage to persons and property as they can get away with I guess emotions and frustrations are running high. I can’t condemn PC H outright as a thuggish lout no better than some of the grunts he has to deal with because as I say I don’t know him. I do suspect he might well regret his haste in dealing with what turned out to be an ‘innocent’ man and whilst that doesn’t excuse his actions I’m not sure prosecuting him is the right way to go and let’s face it, even if he’s acquitted he and the Met will face just as much cr** as they are doing now. They can’t win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmshooter Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I recon he shouldnt be on trial, he was doing his job, and its aout time people started respecting the police, and if he was 5x the dd limit he probz wouldnt of fallen over, he probz wouldnt of argued snd wouldnt of been a probkem, he was the one who got drunk and started the altercation and the fact he died after falling over was his own stupid fault for being at a protest drunk, and arguing with the police. In any other country the police would of had tear gas, water cannons, rubber bullets, our police get pads and a baton and are prosocuted for using it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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