denniswebb Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 As someone that has had negative dealing with the police in recent times. What has really concerned me is the lack of understanding and the heavy handedness of the police when dealing with someone that is a clayshooter, I fear that unless there is real change then it’s a slippery slope. There has to be a better understanding and cooperation between the police and the shooting bodies. I also think that the time has come for every shooter that is in our sport to belong to one of the national shooting bodies and these bodies to be directly involved in the training and licencing system, for that shooter as a pre condition takes a competence test armed with that certificate to go forward to make full application for a gun licence. Our national bodies have already tried and failed to get involved in the licencing process, but if enough shooters and members of the public sign this petition then it will go forward for consideration. Please sign this petition. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38006 Dennis Webb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Dennis - I see you are the only signatory so far. We are all entitled to our own opinion, but I cannot subscribe to your view. There is no logical argument to say your view is a sensible or even practical one. Until such time as you can provide a compelling argument to support this petition, I decline to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Last thing we need is tests on top of everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I chose to join a shooting organisation and I am a strong supporter of BASC. But! I don't want to be, or want anyone else to be FORCED to do so by legislation. Another hoop to jump through, another expense, another barrier to deter people from entering what is already a difficult sport to join. Why oh why do shooters themselves, let alone the powers that be, insist on creating ever more bureaucracy and red tape around an already over regulated sport. Your proposal would be another nail in shooting's coffin, there's no way I could support it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkhawk67 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) Changed my mind Edited September 2, 2012 by Yorkhawk67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard V Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I personally believe that there should be a firearms course with an exam (maybe just 1/2 a day or so) and a test for mental state, all run by the police or a neutral, not for profit body for a resonable fee (so there's no accusations for the courses being a money spinner for the BASC, etc). Once these are passed with addition to the current checks then you can have up to, say 5 firearms (within reason). shotguns, rifles, pistols, etc. Manual, semi-automatic and fully automatic. Record to be near clean, persons with a prison sentance of more than 1 week to be excluded. It seems daft that:- a) There's 2 different systems for shotguns and firearms. Why do you need good reason for a rifle and not a shotgun? Why are you restricted in the number of rifle bullets and not shotgun carts? Why is it generally easier to get a SGC than a FAC? A shotgun in the wrong hands can kill as easily as a rifle so why sepearate them? I guess is so that it's easier for Lord Huffingpuffington of Biscuitbury to own shotguns and carts to shoot on his massive land. B) You can get a shotgun without any form of training, you're not supposed to drive even a 50cc moped or a bicycle with a lawnmower engine attached without basic training so why not for a shotgun? I know I've not been shooting for long and I'm probably going to get shot down (no pun intended!) for the above post however what I'm advocating here is more freedom (in terms of what gund he/she can own) for the average, sensible gun owner, while being sensible in granting rights to own firearms to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) No there's enough red tape already. People do a comprehensive driving test but still go out and drive like idiots. Edited September 2, 2012 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 E petitions need 100,000 signatures to be acknowledged I am in favour of reform in a sensible and logical manner but it won't happen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Albeit some years back, I have shot in Germany and am aquainted with their licensing system which is similar throughout many European countries. As a result, a requirement to undergo some form of training/assessment is not seen as an unsurmountable problem - or even a problem at all and particularly so if you can go straight into taking the assessment. Should we not want this or any other similar system here in the UK, then one way to avoid it is to have a voluntary arrangement of a meaningful standard. If sufficient sportsmen complied with such a scheme, then it would leave the 'authorities' without a leg to stand on if they were to mute the possibility of a legal requirement. Unfortunately, we do not see that as an option. Consequently, what will happen sooner or later is that we'll wake up one morning only to find that, just like the foggy dew, this legislation has crept in unheard and unseen and we'll all post on PW asking how the hell did it happen. The sad thing is, that apart from ensuring (as will be claimed) that the idea is to ensure an enhanced level of public safety and a greater level of consideration for the quarry species it will do in the blink of an eye what the anti gun brigade (not to mention certain factions in the police and government) have been uncuccessfuly trying to achieve for decades - a dramatic reduction of the number of 'weapons' in civilian hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topshunt Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 if you got your way do you not think it would kill the sport for a lot of new shooters. i feel it would put a lot of people off applying for an sgc if on top of the cost of the sgc and then the test that you would also end up paying. no from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 if you got your way do you not think it would kill the sport for a lot of new shooters. i feel it would put a lot of people off applying for an sgc if on top of the cost of the sgc and then the test that you would also end up paying. no from me The cost is going up............ no doubt about that. If it actually offers better value then at least the cost can be seen as offering some benefit to yhe shooter. I think a compulsory test would reduce the current number of holders significantly as many wouldn't bother. Unless it was brought in with grand father rights for existing holder so only new applicants have to undergo the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonseed Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I chose to join a shooting organisation and I am a strong supporter of BASC. But! I don't want to be, or want anyone else to be FORCED to do so by legislation. Another hoop to jump through, another expense, another barrier to deter people from entering what is already a difficult sport to join. Why oh why do shooters themselves, let alone the powers that be, insist on creating ever more bureaucracy and red tape around an already over regulated sport. Your proposal would be another nail in shooting's coffin, there's no way I could support it + 1 totally. Getting more people into the sport is more important to its survival than anything else. If you remember how gun ownership used to be you would never even think about piling more red tape onto us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted September 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Most other countries have simalar systems, in France its compulsary. At this time we don't have a voice when laws are brought in that change our sport. Our shooting bodies have tried and failed . I firmly believe that every shooter has to belong to a national shooting body, has to have third party insurance and be competant in the use of handling and shooting guns. For there part our national shooting bodies have to change to meet the new demands that will be placed on them...I firmly belive that if we put our own house in order then we will be more self regulating. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted September 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Recently we have had a fair few licence holders go off the rails in recent years, that is what has changed this sport, you may not think so but it has, the police now do not trust shooters. Our freedoms to roam and shoot as we had in the past are gone for the time being, if a member of the public phones up and reports someone prowling around with a gun, its more likely now that an arm response unit will turn up to investigate, there is a great deal of distrust now, somehow we have to get things back on track, shooting has to have a working relationship with both the police and government agencies. This is an attempt to restore that trust. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) Everyone keeps citing foreign laws, but their laws are no where near as tight as ours. I believe that a test would add extra cost, discourage casual clay shooters (I know several people who shoot as and when they have the chance, often no more than once a month) and a test would have to be regulated by the Police/government, and as such they could change it at any given point and if it did change, it would almost certainly be for the tougher. I cant see it helping shooters, its a move that will do nothing more than appease the public/anti shooters. How many shooting accidents that harm a member of the public are there in any given year? Is it really needed? I'm sorry Dennis, but every time you write about shooters (which includes me, funnily enough) I am made to feel like a second class citizen becuase I own guns. I am equal to the Widow living next door and the family over the road. I'm no different because I own guns. Edited September 2, 2012 by cant hit rabbits 123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Utter tosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Overseas(particularly Western Europe) hunting permits are very different to owners permits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted September 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I am afraid we are second class citizen, we aren't afforded the same rights as everyone, we are treated differently by the establishment. As i have found out to my cost, espically since the incident up near the Lake District, he was a gun licence holder and used a shotgun and a firearm. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I am afraid we are second class citizen, we aren't afforded the same rights as everyone, we are treated differently by the establishment. As i have found out to my cost, espically since the incident up near the Lake District, he was a gun licence holder and used a shotgun and a firearm. Dennis Exactly how are we second class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 No Dennis - we are not treated differently - you might have been, but most of us are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Legimate shooters in this country are safe and responsible enough not to have the added burden, red tape and cost of shooting exams / training. The number of accidents involving legitimate FAC / SGC holders is remarkably low. Making shooters jump through hoops to get a licence would serve no purpose as it would not reduce accident rates and it would put new shooters off the sport. Doing exams / training would not have prevented Hungerford, Dunblane or Cumbria as these were cases where certificate holders just lost the plot, something that cannot be forseen. Personally I think that entrance exams or training would be the death knell of shooting as the sport is already difficult to get into. I do agree that we need one national body like the US NRA to give us some political clout, as the saying says 'United we stand, Divided we fall' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 we have enough on our plate now with out tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 More restrictions/red tape to get a licence? Get stuffed-We should unite and fight the existing restrictions-attack is the best form of defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Dennis, I'm not going to sign your e-petition as I think that it will be futile. It may reach the number that is required for the government to pretend to consider it but only if the anti gun campaigners pick up on it and muster their troops!! I do however agree that all gun owners should be competent and the only way that can be demonstrated is by training and tests. Ideally all should belong to a single national governing body. Argue among ourselves which organisation that should be but my vote would be an amalgamation of BASC/CA/CPSA. That would also take care of the insurance element but being insured is not as important as competence, I'd rather not be accidentally shot than be assured that the perpetrator was fully insured. Mr Potter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 And where exactly are all these people who are Accidently shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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