Mungler Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 I know there's a few serving officers on here, so here goes again... One of my chums is in the Met. Interestingly (or not) he qualified as a solicitor and packed it in to go into the Met based on 25 years service, the life he wanted and a (good) pension he could predict to receive and at a predicted retirement age. My mate is now probably 15 years in, and has had the rug pulled on his pension by the government. He asked me about "suing the government" a few months ago. Normally when a client asks me about "suing the government" (or the Queen) I press the red button. However, I had a little gander into the whole shebang and there is a whiff. Since then, I have had 3 phone calls in the last month from serving officers who also want to sue the government about the pension and retirement plan they were missold. I know that serving officers can't join a trade union but at the same time I don't see how the rank and file police force allow themselves to be represented by a Police Federation which clearly is not constituted to be representative of the rank and file or broad police force / service. The whole set up seems genuinely antiquated. Maybe the internet will allow the police across the country to get organised and mobilised? I've seen the police pension FB page, but like any on line bullet in board or forum the key message gets lost quickly in the posts that follow. 1,000 police officers donating £500 plus VAT each would get the ball rolling with a QC 10,000 police officers donating £500 plus VAT each would get the issues decided in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty7247 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Same issue, different service. The Army, Navy and Air Force have also been handed a crappy pension change, also, sacking long time servers before pension eligbility? And again, they also dont have anybody to serve there best interests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 If you can't take a joke you shouldn't.............. Seriously though, it's not on particularly as the police contribute to theirs and at one time the armed forces pay was abysmal - "aah, but don't forget you get a good pension". Still with any luck there may just be a few more quid in the police pension pot if justice and fair play (fat chance) has anything to do with it and some pensions are annulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 These issues also effect the private sector with many loosing their initial promises and i do remember doing work for a newspaper guy who lost the lot in the first instance when the boss disapeared off his yaught on a guilt trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Contribute 11% pay at the mo going up to 13.7%. Who else contributes that much? Not a happy bunny. Next thing will be a vote on industrial rights, will be a sad day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Contribute 11% pay at the mo going up to 13.7%. Who else contributes that much? Not a happy bunny. Next thing will be a vote on industrial rights, will be a sad day. just think what a good investment though, no one else gets as good a return. Next door here we have two retired met officers, M3 on the drive new camper van with it. Been trying to work out what to do since he retired at 48 and she at 50, not bad going really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Mungler - I think it is worth a punt. A few mates - about 12 of them - clubbed together to pay for a barrister some years ago, in very similar circumstances. It wasn't a pension, but another financial allowance. The employer caved in, citing goodwill - not accepting any liability of course. They got their money back and enough to buy a new car. Edited September 13, 2012 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Contribute 11% pay at the mo going up to 13.7%. Who else contributes that much? Not a happy bunny. Next thing will be a vote on industrial rights, will be a sad day. yes but as stated above, look at the age you get to retire. Ive NEVER seen a poor ex policeman :yp: everyone is biting the bullet at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 I don't understand why with 15 years in he believes he was mis-sold a pension unless he opted to change his 1987 based pension for the 2006 one when it came out. We were all offered the chance to change and given full information on both schemes. I looked at it and it made no sense. It would have meant losing 1/3 of my pension for no benefit whatsoever. The police have a Federation (as much use as a chocolate teapot) and one of the only benefits is free legal advice. you r friend can book an appointment with a solicitor and discuss this matter. If others have also found dissatisfaction with the pension choice I don't think it will be long before the learned gentle folk of Russell, Jones & Walker will be onto the trail of compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 yes but as stated above, look at the age you get to retire. Ive NEVER seen a poor ex policeman :yp: everyone is biting the bullet at the moment When you get a contract of employment you and your employer should be bound by those terms. Just because it doesn't suit one or the other twenty years down the line shouldn't be a reason to be able to change it. How would you feel if your mortgage company told you just before you were due to pay the final installment that they wanted another two years payments out of you? It's exactly the same thing. BTW: After 25 years of paying between 11 - 15% into my pension fund I now receive around a third of my final salary. These pensions are not as good as you might think, That's why most retired police officers have to find work when they leave the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 When you get a contract of employment you and your employer should be bound by those terms. Just because it doesn't suit one or the other twenty years down the line shouldn't be a reason to be able to change it. How would you feel if your mortgage company told you just before you were due to pay the final installment that they wanted another two years payments out of you? It's exactly the same thing. BTW: After 25 years of paying between 11 - 15% into my pension fund I now receive around a third of my final salary. These pensions are not as good as you might think, That's why most retired police officers have to find work when they leave the police. I agree that it should'nt be changed, But the same thing happened in the private sector regarding final salary pensions, Some of them were changed before they ran the full term, they couldnt do anything about it either, As I said everyone is suffering, the private sector moreso at the moment IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 I think the federation should pay for an officer to take the gouvernment to court over this. When I joined the police I joined the old pension scheme. I joined the police in the knowledge that I would serve for 30 years and receive a full pension. I joined knowing that the police would post me where they decided, I could only live where they approved and if they phoned me at home and told me to come into work then I had to. That is what I signed up for. I have kept my side of the agreement, worked hard and now I'm being told I'm going to have to work an extra 7 years, pay more and get less at the end. If I decide to retire at 53 when I intended to I will have to wait until I'm 65/66/67 to be able to claim my police pension. How can that be right? I've not signed up to a new pension, I've not agreed to anything so how can they screw me and every other police officer over like this? The gouvernment have done this to us because we are an easy target. We can't strike. All we can do is moan about it and march through London! Big deal!! I know lots of PW members will have no sympathy and seem to think because my pension/wages/retirement age is better than theirs that it's tough luck. I say to them that I made an informed decision to join the police based on the conditions at the time. They could have done the same. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Harry - I totally agree. The goalposts have been moved. It's not on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 So when you sign up for a job with the Poiice you get "promised" a darn good pension. Something like 2/3rd's final salary. Then when the going get's tough and the money invested in pensions funds doesn't provide the investment yields the deal get's changed? Ho hum. Rough stuff. Both the private and public sector are going through this at the moment and without doubt we are looking at the death knell of final salary deals. I wouldn't blame the government for trying to address the issue as it's unsustainable but at the same time it's bloody tough on those that have worked hard for something that has been promised and will not be forthcoming. I think a good fight is the best option and it would be a laugh if a european ruling forced our very own government to pay up. :oops: Legal precedent springs to mind and i can't recall any major public or private pension scheme having to cough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini52 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 My brothers a ex bobby,he has to work reckons the pensions not enough after tax it all sounds good at the time bit if you want to keep your standard of living thats the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 I also feel sorry for you guys along with all the rest who are having to dip out big time... its not fair, and its not nice I am in the private sector, a self employed flooring contractor.... most of my customers had to cut back by 20%... hospitals, councils, etc etc so my wage, let alone pension which i now, have had to stop contributing too is down by more than 20%, infact I have done 1 job this week ..things are looking bad, Mum was a matron..she received a good pension ...thank god she did..it pays 65% of her monthly care home fee..she now has alzhimers I only have to find the other £1000 a month.. ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 check out the Trust Deed.....''trustees and employers discretionary scheme'' I bet is the wording. 13.7% and retire on half pay + 150% tax free cash is still a total bargain!!!........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 i emailed and asked the federation (they are useless) if they would ask for my contributions back........13 years of 11% now currently 12.5% of my wage .........i could sort out most of my mortgage and go get a part time job. the problem is that the government doesn't invest the pension contributions, its not put to one side, its spent by the government on other stuff including current pensions. I too signed on the dotted line and accepted all the major implications on my life in reward for the pension.......i haven't let them down, i have done all asked of me and they have changed the goal posts......not fair the federation is a wate of money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Problem is its not half pay anymore or a tax free lum sum. That's why we're not happy. I lose 10k a year in the pension and 100k from a lump sum. And I retire at 60-65 now if I can afford it or not. The days of 30 years service have now ended. So no its not what I signed up for is it. On top of that all the other regs like cancelling my holidays and days off on a whim with a few hours notice and forcing me to do unpaid overtime still stand. On the overtime front if I do get paid any its minus shift allowance and at a lower rate. Problem is its not half pay anymore or a tax free lum sum. That's why we're not happy. I lose 10k a year in the pension and 100k from a lump sum. And I retire at 60-65 now if I can afford it or not. The days of 30 years service have now ended. So no its not what I signed up for is it. On top of that all the other regs like cancelling my holidays and days off on a whim with a few hours notice and forcing me to do unpaid overtime still stand. On the overtime front if I do get paid any its minus shift allowance and at a lower rate. As for the pension pot not returning what it should.... There is no pension pot. The contributions of serving officers pays the pension of the retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 That is what I signed up for. I have kept my side of the agreement, worked hard and now I'm being told I'm going to have to work an extra 7 years, pay more and get less at the end. If I decide to retire at 53 when I intended to I will have to wait until I'm 65/66/67 to be able to claim my police pension. How can that be right? I've not signed up to a new pension, I've not agreed to anything so how can they screw me and every other police officer over like this? The gouvernment have done this to us because we are an easy target. We can't strike. All we can do is moan about it and march through London! Big deal!! Harry Everyone in the private sector has been told the same, When I left school I was told I could get my pension at 65, yes 65...not after 30 years service Now its going to be 67/68 I never signed up for that either Dont say that the police are an easy target, they have done it to ALL private sector workers. So lets say they cave in and give you back what you signed up for, where is the extra money coming from? As I have stated before its everyone thats suffering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Problem is its not half pay anymore or a tax free lum sum. That's why we're not happy. I lose 10k a year in the pension and 100k from a lump sum. And I retire at 60-65 now if I can afford it or not. The days of 30 years service have now ended. So no its not what I signed up for is it. A lot of people dont get £10k a year pension let alone lose £10k Same goes for losing £100k tax free lump sum So what would you expect to get before and after the new proposals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Nothing else for it but to apply to be an feo....now where's that conditions book. Lol. After proposal I will get 8000 a Year before tax. No lump sum. Before I got. 15000 before tax and 80 lump sum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Shaun, what career did you choose and what were the conditions? You may have to do another 2 years. I may have to do another 15. I don't think it's quite the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Harry, My career as such was to be an HGV driver sadly cut short by ill health. Dont get me wrong, its all wrong, nothing should have changed, I actually agree with you, but its the "its us thats suffering" that gets me... everyone is suffering except probably them that started it all, Bankers and Politicians We have had the Firemen/Forces and now the Police saying its us that suffering we are all suffering not just you lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Nothing else for it but to apply to be an feo....now where's that conditions book. Lol. After proposal I will get 8000 a Year before tax. No lump sum. Before I got. 15000 before tax and 80 lump sum Its gone to civilians up here now, used to be police Edited September 13, 2012 by shaun4860 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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