Adams first fox

[cockercas]

Adam has shot with me for 3 years. its not often alex I have time to set up bags while the fox waits around. I know the gun/ammo holds tight groups @300m. All adam needed to do was place the crosshirs to one side of the fox and pull the trigger. Adam is a good shot, I feel if he had the guns he would pass me in ability very quickly. And I'm not exactly a **** shot.

[Birx]

If he was using 55gr bullets they probably wouldn't reach more than 3 inches above bore hight if it was zeroed at 300yds. That's not how I like to set my .243 up because it makes the 200yrd shots the most difficult, but it's not unreasonable either.

[cockercas]

58gr vmax.

 

[Gregthegreat]

If he owned the land or was the gamekeeper then yes, if not then nope.

 

Frenchie just think how many people would you lend your .243 to and say have a punt at that fox way in the distance in the lamp. Would you take the shot off the wing mirror not many I know would. 300 yards gets talked about on here like its shooting rabbits at 50 and its far from it but there is the difference between those that do shoot foxes and those that don't which is clear on this thread. People that do shoot them are reserved those who have picked up most knowledge from the net think its fine. Whichever way it was a lucky shot a dead fox but what were the odds? not the usual odds I like which far favours me over the fox

This sounds increadibly high and mighty.

 

This is your opinion - it is not factual. Other people are entitled to their's. Just because you and a few others on here are questioning it doesn't mean it was wrong. Look at the number of experienced people on here who are saying 'well done' to him.

 

Everyone has their own comfort zone and with that their own ability - it doesn't necessarily match everybody elses.

[cockercas]

Alex is right to question the legality of the shot. It is a grey area in the law.as forum members go alex is one I have quite a bit of respect for.

[al4x]

its one of those things Cocker it sounds bad having a dig and bloody forums just drag discussions out and people into in depth arguments when its simple. Legality aside I think a few understand shooting foxes at night and how hard that distance is, the simple fact is he wasn't experienced at it, it was his second shot at a fox the first missed at 100 yards most wouldn't have let him have a punt at it at that range but he got lucky simple as that. We don't hear about the misses or wounded foxes on here everyone is a crack shot and an expert to boot, though I do reckon a lot have nothing much more powerful than a pea shooter and the web for experience

[cockercas]

Correct, but when dose one reach the level of experience required to shoot foxes at distance? 10/20/50/100 shot foxes. I know what messed up his first shot. 'Fox fever' was to blame. He couldn't control the adrenalin that we all experience when we started fox shooting. That's the sole reason I have made him wait a year and watch a lot more foxes been shot, even tho he kept dropping hints about not shooting one yet. I worked and he was steady to take the shot. Its pretty much all I do is lamping foxes. I have a very good track record, very rearly miss. If your not shooting 95% of the foxes you shoot at then your not really up to scratch. I will say it again tho. This was adams first fox, not first time shooting. He has shot paper @200/250m. He is a good shot and I'm sure if any of the doubters watched him shoot he would put the minds at ease.

Definitely agree about the pea shooters and web experts tho.

[Dougy]

Seems to me if it was zeroed at 300yds, 15mph wind right to left it landed were it should of, elivation is a mathamaticle equation, windage well seems the guess was close enough :thumbs:

[FOXHUNTER1]

simply because some actually use rifles and know what can be done, shooting off a wing mirror using someone elses gun no FAC obviously on cockers land to make it legal and at what most fox shooters call the edge of sensible at night. Its not just about dialling in its any slight movement with the trigger pulls the shot a mile at that range. Some on here would make you think its an easy shot but its far from it, with a rifle set up on bags and handloaded ammo and the scope mag up to 30 I can get under 2" groups at that range in bright daylight on a still day, off a wingmirror no chance.

Really its just a thread best forgotten before people get upset the difference with the posters is some don't have any idea what this kind of shot involves. Luck would be my main point.

 

The voice of reason

[FOXHUNTER1]

Like i say , just a thought. Adam missed a fox sub 100m. More than a year later you let him try again at 300m and he shoots his first fox.

 

Says it all really , no more need be said

[simon6ppc]

like ive said before well done and a good shot, but being truthfull if i missed a fox at 100 yards , i would not shoot at a 320 yard one confidently, but thats just me, but ive done it my self hit them at 280 then missed one at 80, it happens on the night... but fair play to you adam you are a bob lee swagger in the makeing , well done....ps your top shooting as caused some grieve on ere pal...lol...

Edited October 4, 2012 by simon6ppc

[cockercas]

Foxhunter making himself sound a tad jealous(again) of adams shooting.

[cockercas]

Ok then, one Friday night I shot a fox laid down in a rut in stubble at 200meters only its head was visible. While picking this I flicked the lamp around and a fox was running towards us, I let it come to 100m and shot, I missed. The next night (the night fister referred to in a earlier post) I shot 3 foxes. The 1st was 275meters (300yards). Should I have passed that shot up due to missing one previously at 100m? No not a chance. So were do we draw the line? The edge of sensible was mentioned earlier I'd be confidant of a shot with more range on it. I could Maybe understand your argument if I had handed him a gun zeroed @100m and told him to 'aim high'.

The gun was set up for a 300m shot. Windaged info was passed to him verbally. He had as much chance of fluffing the shot as he would @100m. He pulled the shot, made the kill and is rightly so proud of the shot. Just because he hasent spent countless hours behind the but of the gun dosent mean he hasent gained experience. I'm taking him out for a deer in the near future, so if the deer is presented in the middle of a big field and the shots going to be 200-250m should I make him pass the shot up? No chance. It will be doped in and adam will shoot, just like a 100m shot.

[Birx]

I've missed a couple of foxes at sub 50m. The reason... over confidence? I probably thought they were dead before I pulled the trigger! A 300m fox at night is defenetly NOT an easy shot, but it sure as hell makes you concentrate. Perhaps missing his first was a good thing. As everyone keeps saying, there are a lot of things that can put you off a shot. Maybe it taught him to concentrate. I take almost all of my foxes at less than 200m, also with a .243 and I prefer the 80gr bullets because you have to worry less about the wind. Beyond 200m the variables start to increase too much for my liking. But sometimes a longer shot is the only one on offer. I wonder how many more foxes would be tucking into pheasants right now if nobody had ever tried to hit one at 300m+? His first fox or not - he shot it, it died. I'd be pleased with myself for dropping it, why can't we all be pleased for him?

 

Great shooting Alex! Keep it up mate.

[FOXHUNTER1]

Foxhunter making himself sound a tad jealous(again) of adams shooting.

 

Not jealous at all. Its just totally irresponsible to let a novice shoot at live quarry at 320 metres in the dark. Have you no respect for your quarry at all?

 

I am not against long range shooting in fact the opposite as I really admire the skill involved.

 

I have spent countless hours in the field with my mate who enjoys this discipline and is adept at it. Saying that he has a custom built rifle with a £3000 Archer scope on it , home load ammo obviously which is chronographed, Leica Geovids for assessing range , Kestrel Wind meter and also uses Exbal so nothing is left to chance. All info entered into Exbal , range , windage and even temperature and pressure if shooting at extreme range.

 

My personal best is a goat at 500 yards , 1st shot kill. All dialled in using my mates rifle.

 

My mate is very talented with his personal best being a 888 yard hare , 1st shot kill.

 

Now a lot of people reading this will think what I have posted is ******** but its the truth and I couldnt care less if you believe it or not.

 

All of the above shooting is made possible by having all the best equipment and a lot of range work on paper to reach a very high standard before shooting at live quarry therefore ensuring as little risk as possible of wounding although nothing in life is totally without risk.

[swiss.tony]

Not jealous at all. Its just totally irresponsible to let a novice shoot at live quarry at 320 metres in the dark. Have you no respect for your quarry at all?

 

I am not against long range shooting in fact the opposite as I really admire the skill involved.

 

I have spent countless hours in the field with my mate who enjoys this discipline and is adept at it. Saying that he has a custom built rifle with a £3000 Archer scope on it , home load ammo obviously which is chronographed, Leica Geovids for assessing range , Kestrel Wind meter and also uses Exbal so nothing is left to chance. All info entered into Exbal , range , windage and even temperature and pressure if shooting at extreme range.

 

My personal best is a goat at 500 yards , 1st shot kill. All dialled in using my mates rifle.

 

My mate is very talented with his personal best being a 888 yard hare , 1st shot kill.

 

Now a lot of people reading this will think what I have posted is ******** but its the truth and I couldnt care less if you believe it or not.

 

All of the above shooting is made possible by having all the best equipment and a lot of range work on paper to reach a very high standard before shooting at live quarry therefore ensuring as little risk as possible of wounding although nothing in life is totally without risk.

 

 

cough""""" you mean you beat the 704 hare ? you say respect for the fox or quarry iv got no such thing when its a fox if you miss so be it if you hit it its dead as 100 s of people miss foxes on here every year or injure them there not going far if they have bin hit with a 243 round v max why is every 1 on here jumping on the slag band wagon the fox is dead you should be happy but yet again the pw anti"s who don't Evan hold a fac jump on some lad who they don't Evan no and sling mud about not haveing a go at you foxy before you rip my head off just sick off all back stabbing on here were all shooters " well most are we should be happy for the the lad

[FOXHUNTER1]

Swiss , you should still have respect , even for a fox.

I know foxes need to be controlled heavily , I shoot every fox I see but still have a lot of respect for them.

If they are to be shot you should still aspire to killing the fox clean , simply wounding and hoping it will die is totally unacceptable.

[cockercas]

Try going thru my post history mate, then you will see just how much I respect the fox. I fail to see the difference between you shooting a goat @500 and adam shooting a fox @300. You got the data from a computer. Adam got the data from my brain. I've done the time. Know what needs shifting to were. I know alex keeps saying a 300m fox isn't an easy shot but when a lot of shots are taken around the 300m mark its just becomes second nature. Fister,swiss,fergie and anyone else who has seen me shoot a rifle will vouch for how quickly I shoot. My brains run the calculations before the rifles hit my shoulder and the shots been taken within seconds. There's no hoping it will die. This year I've only shot 30odd foxes I've missed one shot. Put that with last years fox numbers and I couldn't tell you the last time I missed a fox. Tonight if there is a 300m fox I'll let adam shoot. Just to prove it wasn't a fluke.

[FOXHUNTER1]

Try going thru my post history mate, then you will see just how much I respect the fox. I fail to see the difference between you shooting a goat @500 and adam shooting a fox @300. You got the data from a computer. Adam got the data from my brain. I've done the time. Know what needs shifting to were. I know alex keeps saying a 300m fox isn't an easy shot but when a lot of shots are taken around the 300m mark its just becomes second nature. Fister,swiss,fergie and anyone else who has seen me shoot a rifle will vouch for how quickly I shoot. My brains run the calculations before the rifles hit my shoulder and the shots been taken within seconds. There's no hoping it will die. This year I've only shot 30odd foxes I've missed one shot. Put that with last years fox numbers and I couldn't tell you the last time I missed a fox. Tonight if there is a 300m fox I'll let adam shoot. Just to prove it wasn't a fluke.

 

Go on then prove us wrong , look forward to your post tomorrow

[cockercas]

Might not see a fox. I didn't last night.

[docholiday]

Well we have been down this road many times and my take is that I have mentored a fair number of people in the stalking world and I know I wouldnt let them take there first deer over 100 yds regardless. end of story, I dont care how good I think they may have been, many are better shots than me, their first deer wouldnt be over 100yds.

Now consider the killing area of a deer and the size of a skinned fox, the actual killing area is remarkably small.

At night

With wind

I have no problem with taking shoots at long distance but not your first at night and having missed one at 100yds

 

This is just my thoughts and I dont consider them written in stone unless you were shooting with me, everybody is entitled to do their own thing.

doc

[al4x]

Swiss , you should still have respect , even for a fox.

I know foxes need to be controlled heavily , I shoot every fox I see but still have a lot of respect for them.

If they are to be shot you should still aspire to killing the fox clean , simply wounding and hoping it will die is totally unacceptable.

 

there is a bit to both sides of this and the kill zone with a .243 is quite large if the fox is side on the you do only need a center mass shot, as mentioned earlier I've cleared two up for other people this year one shot broke a leg and the other in the jaw removing most of its teeth. Now they are eye openers to injuries that take a very long time to kill. Doc put it very well and there isn't any more to add, if you are doing the job for any real reason a wounded fox will do far more damage to farm stock and game birds than a healthy one and a missed one just lives longer because you will be very lucky to shoot it under the lamp again.

[coyotemaster]

Two sides to everything I suppose, but I say Adam made a fine shot and was well coached. As far as the range and the wind goes any shot relates to physics, drop and drift, obviously he had them right. I have shot coyotes to 500 and realize the complexity but it can be done repeatedly with practice. Well done to you both!!

[geordieh]

 

 

Not jealous at all. Its just totally irresponsible to let a novice shoot at live quarry at 320 metres in the dark. Have you no respect for your quarry at all?

 

I am not against long range shooting in fact the opposite as I really admire the skill involved.

 

I have spent countless hours in the field with my mate who enjoys this discipline and is adept at it. Saying that he has a custom built rifle with a £3000 Archer scope on it , home load ammo obviously which is chronographed, Leica Geovids for assessing range , Kestrel Wind meter and also uses Exbal so nothing is left to chance. All info entered into Exbal , range , windage and even temperature and pressure if shooting at extreme range.

 

My personal best is a goat at 500 yards , 1st shot kill. All dialled in using my mates rifle.

 

My mate is very talented with his personal best being a 888 yard hare , 1st shot kill.

 

Now a lot of people reading this will think what I have posted is ******** but its the truth and I couldnt care less if you believe it or not.

 

All of the above shooting is made possible by having all the best equipment and a lot of range work on paper to reach a very high standard before shooting at live quarry therefore ensuring as little risk as possible of wounding although nothing in life is totally without risk.

So shooting a 888 yard hare is responsible and showing respect to your quarry.Not in my book mate and a lot of luck too.The slightest breeze at best a missed hare at worst a wounded hare.The second coming of Robbosam.

Geordie

[cockercas]

No fair play to him for making the shot. Still the fact remains he got his data to make an accurate shot from technology. Adam got his from me. Both was accurate. Both resulted in a clean shot. People don't like been bettered. Especially by a newbie. Adam pulled of what most consider to be a long shot. Shooting is logical. Its just science with a bit of luck. Great stuff if foxhunter and his mate have time to put all there data into a pc to make the shot. I usually have a split second to make the shot and I rearly miss so I must be pretty accurate at getting the info right.