Cows trample, man dies

[al4x]

but its usually the fact that the dog is loose that spooks the cattle in the first place.

All depends with calves it is the mere presence in the field, heiffers and bullocks also will show an interest on the lead or not. Then you can get injured by them pratting about, generally though yes start with the dog on the lead but let it go if you get into problems. They will out run cows you won't.

[harpoonlouis]

There is always a risk to life and limb when humans mix with livestock, be they horses, cows etc. Farmers suffer injury far more often than walkers in the course of their work even though they have the experience and skill that weekend walkers don't have. Yes, farmers have a duty of care when putting amimals out to graze and are required by law to maintain stock proof fencing to keep their beast in and to warn the public that live stock are out in fields where the public have rights to cross. Having said all that the public choose to enter someones elses land for their entertainment and are there by their choice and have to take some responsibility including the likelyhood of random injury or attacks promted by their own actions, such as taking the dog, which were probably innocent but their actions non the less. Since when was the countryside a risk free zone, a paradise playground for the weekend wander? The countryside is no such thing, it is someones place of work, a food factory with some real risks and dangers.

[pontbeck]

Maybe the farmer shouldn't be putting cows and calfs in fields with footpaths running through, knowing how aggressive the mother can be?

!!!

[sitsinhedges]

There is always a risk to life and limb when humans mix with livestock, be they horses, cows etc. Farmers suffer injury far more often than walkers in the course of their work even though they have the experience and skill that weekend walkers don't have. Yes, farmers have a duty of care when putting amimals out to graze and are required by law to maintain stock proof fencing to keep their beast in and to warn the public that live stock are out in fields where the public have rights to cross. Having said all that the public choose to enter someones elses land for their entertainment and are there by their choice and have to take some responsibility including the likelyhood of random injury or attacks promted by their own actions, such as taking the dog, which were probably innocent but their actions non the less. Since when was the countryside a risk free zone, a paradise playground for the weekend wander? The countryside is no such thing, it is someones place of work, a food factory with some real risks and dangers.

 

No-one using a footpath should be having to wonder when they enter a field whether they will be exiting it in one piece. If stock can't be reasonably trusted it should be put elsewhere or the path fenced off. We all have a right to use footpaths however inconvenient that might be to the landowner.

[al4x]

No-one using a footpath should be having to wonder when they enter a field whether they will be exiting it in one piece. If stock can't be reasonably trusted it should be put elsewhere or the path fenced off. We all have a right to use footpaths however inconvenient that might be to the landowner.

 

 

so really what you are saying is all footpaths should be fenced off across livestock land?

 

The cost burden on that should be down to the local council as it is them that want the footpath to be there certainly not the farmer, the fact they have to run across the middle of fields and not conveniently round the edge outside the fence would be my main issue with making farmers do it

Edited May 15, 2013 by al4x

[old rooster]

No-one using a footpath should be having to wonder when they enter a field whether they will be exiting it in one piece. If stock can't be reasonably trusted it should be put elsewhere or the path fenced off. We all have a right to use footpaths however inconvenient that might be to the landowner.

 

Country footpaths go across agricultural land, they have done for many years. By definition agricultural land is likely to hold livestock, which is it's primary use after all. Animals are always going to be unpredictable to some extent, at certain times potentially more dangerous than others. Perhaps a simple note at each end of the path, for those without the sense to think for themselves, explaining that the stock in that field are likely to be protecting their offspring and could therefore become dangerous would be an idea? Very few people walk to work along footpaths so not using certain ones at certain times would represent no real hardship. The public and farmers working in harmony?

 

I recall an incident when we were out beating a few years back and had stopped for a bite of lunch in a big barn back at the farm. Half the barn had been fenced off using 5 bar metal gates and a couple of cows with fairly new calves were in residence. One jack the lad type beater (who should have known better as he works on a farm!) jumped over the gate and quick as a flash was turfed back over a good foot clear of the top by the head of an unimpressed cow. He didn't know where to put his face but did get a good cheer.

Edited May 15, 2013 by old rooster

[sitsinhedges]

so really what you are saying is all footpaths should be fenced off across livestock land?

 

The cost burden on that should be down to the local council as it is them that want the footpath to be there certainly not the farmer, the fact they have to run across the middle of fields and not conveniently round the edge outside the fence would be my main issue with making farmers do it

 

What I'm saying is that there is and should be a duty of care to people using footpaths. How would you feel if your elderly parents or young children got injured while out for a walk.

 

Saying it's agricultural land so you can take your chances is just stupid. My in-laws have breeding cattle and know how unpredictable they can be even to those who tend them every day. They wouldn't put them where they could injure people whilst they have young calves and rightly so.

[al4x]

there is a duty of care some here have next to no fields without footpaths across are they meant to put fences through the middle of every field. If you apply common sense there is rarely an issue its a once or twice a year event usually which bearing in mind the number of cattle about is very low. In a field with cows I will usually make sure I keep an eye on them, keep away from them with the dog under control and if anything looks iffy go round the edge of the field. Many will have an out of control dog that when it is harrased they pick it up and try and protect it that is when they get trampled, its well publicised and people just need to learn you have to leave the dog to run in that event. Cows generally are pretty predictable with people and well handled very few cause problems without a dog present I spent 5 years on a dairy farm dealing with the good the bad and the ugly animal wise and the iffy stuff wasn't put in fields with paths and the really iffy bull beef never went out. Some paths had people walk them once a month or less so its a pretty large inconvenience to have to fence them because walkers can't exert common sense

[Floating Chamber]

When walking in the country, folk should stick to the roads. In fields of livestock there should be signs like 'DEATH LURKS IN THESE FIELDS, KEEP OUT,.......but half the beggars can't read!

[old rooster]

When walking in the country, folk should stick to the roads. In fields of livestock there should be signs like 'DEATH LURKS IN THESE FIELDS, KEEP OUT,.......but half the beggars can't read!

 

That is a point! It would have to be in about 20 different languages, maybe a series of pictures would be the answer?

[Yellow Bear]

When walking in the country, folk should stick to the roads. In fields of livestock there should be signs like 'DEATH LURKS IN THESE FIELDS, KEEP OUT,.......but half the beggars can't Won't read!

[harpoonlouis]

So the right to roam on upland pastures means farmers have to put mobile fences around their livestock so folks can turn up once in a blue moon and wander about safely?

 

There is no such thing as a totally predicatable animal so nobody who wants to walk in the countryside can demand by right to be totally safe all of the time. If you want to exercise a "right" then exercise the resonsibility that goes with it.

 

I wonder if all trees in the countryside will need to be de-nuded of branches so that walkers can walk safely in windy weather next.

 

Sure it is unacceptable to put stock known to be dangerous in fields where the public wil cross but you can make it 100% if folks want to share the landscape with livestock.

"'DEATH LURKS IN THESE FIELDS, KEEP OUT,."

 

Your insurance company won't like that, indicates know liability......

[old rooster]

So the right to roam on upland pastures means farmers have to put mobile fences around their livestock so folks can turn up once in a blue moon and wander about safely?

 

There is no such thing as a totally predicatable animal so nobody who wants to walk in the countryside can demand by right to be totally safe all of the time. If you want to exercise a "right" then exercise the resonsibility that goes with it.

 

I wonder if all trees in the countryside will need to be de-nuded of branches so that walkers can walk safely in windy weather next.

 

Sure it is unacceptable to put stock known to be dangerous in fields where the public wil cross but you can make it 100% if folks want to share the landscape with livestock.

 

"'DEATH LURKS IN THESE FIELDS, KEEP OUT,."

 

Your insurance company won't like that, indicates know liability......

 

The problem with that sort of outlook is that it is based on an understanding of the reality of living in the countryside, as no doubt many of us have all our lives.

 

We live in a very unreal world these days with some people, brought up on nothing but nanny state attitudes, expecting protection from their own stupidity all down the line however unrealistic implementing some of the protective measures might be.

[harpoonlouis]

We live in a very unreal world these days with some people, brought up on nothing but nanny state attitudes, expecting protection from their own stupidity all down the line however unrealistic implementing some of the protective measures might be.

 

The problem with that sort of outlook is that it is based on an understanding of the reality of living in the countryside, as no doubt many of us have all our lives.

 

We live in a very unreal world these days with some people, brought up on nothing but nanny state attitudes, expecting protection from their own stupidity all down the line however unrealistic implementing some of the protective measures might be.

 

Time to start pushing back.

 

A long time ago a sensible man invited me to think about something.

 

" What are you not doing in your life that you are blaming somebody else for not doing for you?"

 

I remember being asked this and changing a few things that I thought and believed, I found it helpful. More and more I find myself pushing back and finding a whole lot of people don't put up much resistance, they demand but they don't really have the guts to follow thorough when pushed. I don't win all the time but when I do I feel a bit better.

[four-wheel-drive]

when I am out with the dog I tend to avoid going in to fields with livestock in but and it can be a big BUT it is not always clear to see if there are cows there as some fields go up hill in a curve or the field may well not be square so it is not until you get half way across the the cows suddenly see you and come running over even if you see fresh cow pats even that dose not mean that the cows are still in that field.

 

I am not saying in all cases but for fields that tend to get walkers could it not be possible for fields that have livestock with young in to have removable notices warning people of possible danger to them.

 

If I had a dog that would bite people if they came in to my garden I would put up a sign warning people that if they come in they could be bitten it they choose to disregard it and come in that is there choice and if they do then get bitten there problem they was told.

[bobt]

his wife probably told him it was cold out so he should get a jersey on?

[the pigeon man]

Wife said it was "fresion"

[four-wheel-drive]

mind you one solution would be to let dog walkers carry a nice colt 45 and if the cows came over they could do what the cowboys do and let off a few shots in the air mind you I do quite fancy myself with one of them strapped to my hip you are not going to get mugd.

[crosshair]

It is always sad to read of the death of someone that is in a field of cattle, usually with a dog.

Nine out of ten of those killed had a dog with them, as said earlier by the more experienced, "we do not use the

farm dogs to herd the cattle", sadly there are those that regret any advice given.

The public today are adamant it is their right to follow the sign that says "public footpath", if there are cows with

young calves at foot then the cow can also be adamant that no dog or stranger is going to endanger her calf.

Being a beef farmer I know that the quietest cow can quickly change her mood after calving, we live with that

danger and act accordingly, the countryside is not a playground for dogs or ramblers.

The advice given by the ramblers and the farmers unions is, if there are cattle in the field then find an alternative route,

having said that there are those that ignore the advice and foolishly take the militant stance of "it's a right of way and I

am going to walk it", sadly there are those that do not live to regret their lack of countryside knowledge.

[Blackpowder]

A farmer near to me lost his life a month ago after being attacked by a heifer. He was a man who had worked among cattle all his life, I understand there was a calf involved but not belonging to the attacking cow. A sad affair.

 

Blackpowder

[Gav912]

It is always sad to read of the death of someone that is in a field of cattle, usually with a dog.

Nine out of ten of those killed had a dog with them, as said earlier by the more experienced, "we do not use the

farm dogs to herd the cattle", sadly there are those that regret any advice given.

The public today are adamant it is their right to follow the sign that says "public footpath", if there are cows with

young calves at foot then the cow can also be adamant that no dog or stranger is going to endanger her calf.

Being a beef farmer I know that the quietest cow can quickly change her mood after calving, we live with that

danger and act accordingly, the countryside is not a playground for dogs or ramblers.

The advice given by the ramblers and the farmers unions is, if there are cattle in the field then find an alternative route,

having said that there are those that ignore the advice and foolishly take the militant stance of "it's a right of way and I

am going to walk it", sadly there are those that do not live to regret their lack of countryside knowledge.

 

 

That is very true, all ours have calved now and are all usually quiet but yesterday while handling them through a race to vaccinate them, one had a mood swing and kicked the multi dosing syringe with vaccine bottle on top out of my bosses hand nearly breaking his wrist in the process, she has never shown any signs of a bad attitude before and has been fine since.

[crosshair]

Gav912, As said previously they can be unpredictable, some years ago a local farmer was killed by a young ten month old bull,

he was feeding it at the time.

They described his remains that were scattered over the field as looking like he was ripped apart by a lion, his remains were

collected in several plastic bags, and this was a young animal that he had hand reared.

In our job we have to take some kind of risk assessment with every job we do, if the dog walkers did that there would be less

deaths, the main risk is taking dogs with them, I know it's nice to take the dog for a country stroll, but go where there are no

cattle.

[Thunderbird]

This is a very interesting thread, I grew up with dairy cattle and grew very comfortable with them, calves or not, and I've probably taken risks that on reflection perhaps I shouldn't have. To be honest until (comparatively) recently I didn't realise how common cows attacks were. Having said that I have seen a woman be kicked in the face in a herring-bone milking parlour and that wasn't a pretty sight I can tell you.

 

I never had a dog in tow though, it has to be said.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Thunderbird

[scotslad]

I would also say some cows/stock aren't handled the may the used to be, more stock and not the manpower on farms and generally looked by quad/pick up or tractor some stock will rarely see a farmer/worker walking now and tend to get a bit 'excited' when anyone walks near them inc farmer yet he could drive right throu the middle off them and not blink an eye.

Also the breeds are changing and some are more flighty the the more traditional breeds, but u can never trust a cow with calf far worse than a bull

 

Very hard to change peoples opinion as some think they know it all and in scotland with 'right to roam' they think they can do wot they want and have no responsibility for them selves

[sitsinhedges]

The clue is in the term 'right of way'.

 

Members of the public have a legal right to use these pathways and can reasonably expect to use them without suffering bodily harm. To suggest they should take a different path is ridiculous, there's rarely a choice of paths and you have no right to deny their passing just because you find it inconvenient.

 

To suggest they need to carry out risk assessments is laughable when it's clear that the farmer who put the stock in the field and knows the aminals far better than a given rambler hasn't himself carried out risk assessments and had the good sense to act accordingly.

 

It's not always even obvious what is in the field until it's too late to do anything about it, and this is another reason why any risk assessment why it should come down to the farmer.

 

It's no different to shooting over a footpath apart from if you did that without due care you would quickly find yourself without any guns to shoot.