Woolwich murder

[gemini52]

Islams pockets,.... guest 1957, I am now 66 years of age and I have seen a lifetime of my much loved country going to the dogs. I just want my country back. from Auntie.

You have more chance of throwing a snow ball at the sun,sadly.

[Gilberts1989]

I think the police responded admirably. 9 minutes to get unarmed officers to the scene and 14 for armed. The firearms cops were confronted with an immediate hostile threat in a fast moving dynamic situation. They engaged and neutralised that threat within their rules of engagement allowing their unarmed colleagues to control and preserve a horrific crime scene. They also had the the discipline to provide initial CPR to two despicable individuals who had just attacked them having slaughtered an unarmed man, the suspects survived and justice will now take its course.

 

Anybody who criticises the marksmanship of those officers has obviously never had to pull a trigger in combat. It is not the same as plating Call of Duty or even lamping for foxes!

I am ******* glad they didn't shoot to kill as this is obviously what they wanted to happen to them. Fair play to the personnel involved in this incident, it take courage to pull the trigger but it takes more to then treat these animal and keep them alive.

 

This act of courage is what separates those from us!!

[Malik]

no point in closing the mosques eh! , so they don't collect to provide funds for terrorism they don't ALLOW the preaching of hate,they dont recruit, send off to pakistan etc and train those they wish to carry out the will of Allah, they don't support the oppression of women, and they don't hide by the pretence that its others not them, OK I believe you.

 

KW

No they don't, the only thing remotely true is the preaching of hate in whatever mosque these extremists come from. let the individual's who preach hate be dealt with, on both sides and leave the innocent out of it. Ive been in plenty of mosques in my time, and not one has preached hate. I dont expect mosques to be closed because of one **** hole that wants to brain wash people, let him be dealt with. Not the whole faith.

 

 

Plenty of child abuse over the years from the church. (Even more than these asian gangs). Churches and their church goers do not need to be involved, only those responsible do. Churches do not need to be closed either and the whole faith demonised. Let those responsible take the burdon of their actions solely.

 

Edit. Mr chouldry hates the pakistan government and the egyptian government, He said it in a recent interview. The guy is a loonitic.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Malik

[Beardo]

here here!

[kdubya]

No they don't, the only thing remotely true is the preaching of hate in whatever mosque these extremists come from. let the individual's who preach hate be dealt with, on both sides and leave the innocent out of it. Ive been in plenty of mosques in my time, and not one has preached hate. I dont expect mosques to be closed because of one **** hole that wants to brain wash people, let him be dealt with. Not the whole faith.

 

 

Plenty of child abuse over the years from the church. (Even more than these asian gangs). Churches and their church goers do not need to be involved, only those responsible do. Churches do not need to be closed either and the whole faith demonised. Let those responsible take the burdon of their actions solely.

 

Edit. Mr chouldry hates the pakistan government and the egyptian government, He said it in a recent interview. The guy is a loonitic.

yeah your right its not happening is it so I suppose this is fiction to you as well keep on hiding under the pillow and pretending it will go away.

 

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/297890/Mosque-terror-doc-fundraiser/

[Vince Green]

Back in the 70s the Colleges and Universities were absolute hotbeds of recruiting by the extreme hard left who used all the same techniques to poison the minds of the young and gullable. They filled their heads with nonsense and lies and it wasn't really that different.

 

And before you say they weren't out to kill people that's true, but they were still very nasty people planning the overthrow the country and impose some twisted Soviet style society upon us. Come the revolution Brother! It sounds like a joke today but it was real enough then, I still remember the bully boys and the violence on the picket lines

 

In those days they didn't have the internet, but young men are the same the world over, give them a cause, however twisted, and some will bond to it.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Vince Green

[Malik]

yeah your right its not happening is it so I suppose this is fiction to you as well keep on hiding under the pillow and pretending it will go away.

 

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/297890/Mosque-terror-doc-fundraiser/

It says scheduled, did this even go ahead? And if it was scheduled to happen AFTER someone has been convicted... How are they involved in this? It says nothing about them funding her for her actions.

 

If they were indeed involved in anything, actions would have been taken, After all the government banned al muhajiroun, and deported abu hamza...

 

 

Like i said in my previous post. Let those responsible get the blame, and leave the innocent out of it. I have full faith in thr justice system. I am sure they have dealt with threats that no one even knew was coming

[gemini52]

Have a listen to the press release the family have given,spare a thought for them whilst your all bickering on here BB

Watched it before,brought a lump to my throat,really feel for them.

[byjovecarruthers]

I'm writing this sat in Afghanistan. I don't get to the Internet very often but when I do I like to check this forum out. Today, I wished I hadn't . Some of the b@££@£s being spouted on here makes me ashamed to be British. So far whilst I have been in this country I have watched as 3 of the young men from the Bn that I'm attached to repatriated to the UK in metal boxs because of fanatics. These same fanatics are killing their own people, in fact people who they claim are of their own faith, every single day to promote their own twisted ideology. people who just want to get on and live their lives and feed their families in peace.

Our country has changed, it's too late to reverse it. It's nothing new anyway, immigration has happened for centuries. With it comes good and bad. We must embrace the good and try to prevent the bad. 4 days ago I was sat in a Police Barracks mentoring an Afghan SWAT team commander. The 20 year old Infantry soldier,wearing the same uniform as me, who was watching my back was from Burnley but born in Pakistan. I trusted him implicitly knowing that he would risk his life to protect me if things turned bad as I would for him. I'd only met him that morning and after chatting had discovered that he spoke Urdu and Pashto (damn handy in Helmand) and had only been in the Army for 18 months. I put my faith in this Muslim because he was a member of the BRITISH Army and on a subconscious level shared the same values as I.

There are a lot of problems with he UK, some of them may never be fixed, but believe me as countries go its pretty good. I don't look at the retards in the EDL, a stupid little club for hooligans who have been given football banning orders, and see the shining light of British manhood any more than I see two brainwashed angry black men as the representatives of British Muslims.

Yes the Muslim community should recognise and adopt our values a little more, yes we shouldn't have to apologise for our culture and yes the Muslim community has not always taken responsibility for some of its members but we aren't going to fix things by taring them all with the same brush and persecuting an entire section of society.

 

Oh yeah, another thing that makes my excrement itch is inaccurate comments from keyboard warriors. Trust me, the ammunition the police use is half jacketed. It is used purely to try and limit over penetration. The police dont shoot to kill or shoot to wound, they shoot to neutralise a threat and the quickest and safest wat to do this is to target the centre of the body mass (less suicide bombers and those with body armour). Any calibre of ammunition can kill, the deciding factor is the degree of trauma caused to essential organs and the amount of blood loss. Of course your chance of survival is increased by being shot by police marksmen trained in immediate trauma care and having some of the best paramedics in the world waiting just outside a cordon!

 

I think we were lucky that an unarmed cop wasn't lying in the road along side drummer Rigby.

 

I hope the next time I get near the Internet people have calmed down a bit. Sorry for the rant. Perhaps the mods should kill this strand.

[oscarsdad]

I'm writing this sat in Afghanistan. I don't get to the Internet very often but when I do I like to check this forum out. Today, I wished I hadn't . Some of the b@££@£s being spouted on here makes me ashamed to be British. So far whilst I have been in this country I have watched as 3 of the young men from the Bn that I'm attached to repatriated to the UK in metal boxs because of fanatics. These same fanatics are killing their own people, in fact people who they claim are of their own faith, every single day to promote their own twisted ideology. people who just want to get on and live their lives and feed their families in peace.

Our country has changed, it's too late to reverse it. It's nothing new anyway, immigration has happened for centuries. With it comes good and bad. We must embrace the good and try to prevent the bad. 4 days ago I was sat in a Police Barracks mentoring an Afghan SWAT team commander. The 20 year old Infantry soldier,wearing the same uniform as me, who was watching my back was from Burnley but born in Pakistan. I trusted him implicitly knowing that he would risk his life to protect me if things turned bad as I would for him. I'd only met him that morning and after chatting had discovered that he spoke Urdu and Pashto (damn handy in Helmand) and had only been in the Army for 18 months. I put my faith in this Muslim because he was a member of the BRITISH Army and on a subconscious level shared the same values as I.

There are a lot of problems with he UK, some of them may never be fixed, but believe me as countries go its pretty good. I don't look at the retards in the EDL, a stupid little club for hooligans who have been given football banning orders, and see the shining light of British manhood any more than I see two brainwashed angry black men as the representatives of British Muslims.

Yes the Muslim community should recognise and adopt our values a little more, yes we shouldn't have to apologise for our culture and yes the Muslim community has not always taken responsibility for some of its members but we aren't going to fix things by taring them all with the same brush and persecuting an entire section of society.

Oh yeah, another thing that makes my excrement itch is inaccurate comments from keyboard warriors. Trust me, the ammunition the police use is half jacketed. It is used purely to try and limit over penetration. The police dont shoot to kill or shoot to wound, they shoot to neutralise a threat and the quickest and safest wat to do this is to target the centre of the body mass (less suicide bombers and those with body armour). Any calibre of ammunition can kill, the deciding factor is the degree of trauma caused to essential organs and the amount of blood loss. Of course your chance of survival is increased by being shot by police marksmen trained in immediate trauma care and having some of the best paramedics in the world waiting just outside a cordon!

I think we were lucky that an unarmed cop wasn't lying in the road along side drummer Rigby.

I hope the next time I get near the Internet people have calmed down a bit. Sorry for the rant. Perhaps the mods should kill this strand.

Excellent post from someone who knows what they are talking about. Stay safe bud.

[jasper3]

I'm writing this sat in Afghanistan. I don't get to the Internet very often but when I do I like to check this forum out. Today, I wished I hadn't . Some of the b@££@£s being spouted on here makes me ashamed to be British. So far whilst I have been in this country I have watched as 3 of the young men from the Bn that I'm attached to repatriated to the UK in metal boxs because of fanatics. These same fanatics are killing their own people, in fact people who they claim are of their own faith, every single day to promote their own twisted ideology. people who just want to get on and live their lives and feed their families in peace.

Our country has changed, it's too late to reverse it. It's nothing new anyway, immigration has happened for centuries. With it comes good and bad. We must embrace the good and try to prevent the bad. 4 days ago I was sat in a Police Barracks mentoring an Afghan SWAT team commander. The 20 year old Infantry soldier,wearing the same uniform as me, who was watching my back was from Burnley but born in Pakistan. I trusted him implicitly knowing that he would risk his life to protect me if things turned bad as I would for him. I'd only met him that morning and after chatting had discovered that he spoke Urdu and Pashto (damn handy in Helmand) and had only been in the Army for 18 months. I put my faith in this Muslim because he was a member of the BRITISH Army and on a subconscious level shared the same values as I.

There are a lot of problems with he UK, some of them may never be fixed, but believe me as countries go its pretty good. I don't look at the retards in the EDL, a stupid little club for hooligans who have been given football banning orders, and see the shining light of British manhood any more than I see two brainwashed angry black men as the representatives of British Muslims.

Yes the Muslim community should recognise and adopt our values a little more, yes we shouldn't have to apologise for our culture and yes the Muslim community has not always taken responsibility for some of its members but we aren't going to fix things by taring them all with the same brush and persecuting an entire section of society.

 

Oh yeah, another thing that makes my excrement itch is inaccurate comments from keyboard warriors. Trust me, the ammunition the police use is half jacketed. It is used purely to try and limit over penetration. The police dont shoot to kill or shoot to wound, they shoot to neutralise a threat and the quickest and safest wat to do this is to target the centre of the body mass (less suicide bombers and those with body armour). Any calibre of ammunition can kill, the deciding factor is the degree of trauma caused to essential organs and the amount of blood loss. Of course your chance of survival is increased by being shot by police marksmen trained in immediate trauma care and having some of the best paramedics in the world waiting just outside a cordon!

 

I think we were lucky that an unarmed cop wasn't lying in the road along side drummer Rigby.

 

I hope the next time I get near the Internet people have calmed down a bit. Sorry for the rant. Perhaps the mods should kill this strand.

Spot on .... have a safe tour

[olly321]

they should of been head shots for what they done

[overandunder2012]

I'm writing this sat in Afghanistan. I don't get to the Internet very often but when I do I like to check this forum out. Today, I wished I hadn't . Some of the b@££@£s being spouted on here makes me ashamed to be British. So far whilst I have been in this country I have watched as 3 of the young men from the Bn that I'm attached to repatriated to the UK in metal boxs because of fanatics. These same fanatics are killing their own people, in fact people who they claim are of their own faith, every single day to promote their own twisted ideology. people who just want to get on and live their lives and feed their families in peace.

Our country has changed, it's too late to reverse it. It's nothing new anyway, immigration has happened for centuries. With it comes good and bad. We must embrace the good and try to prevent the bad. 4 days ago I was sat in a Police Barracks mentoring an Afghan SWAT team commander. The 20 year old Infantry soldier,wearing the same uniform as me, who was watching my back was from Burnley but born in Pakistan. I trusted him implicitly knowing that he would risk his life to protect me if things turned bad as I would for him. I'd only met him that morning and after chatting had discovered that he spoke Urdu and Pashto (damn handy in Helmand) and had only been in the Army for 18 months. I put my faith in this Muslim because he was a member of the BRITISH Army and on a subconscious level shared the same values as I.

There are a lot of problems with he UK, some of them may never be fixed, but believe me as countries go its pretty good. I don't look at the retards in the EDL, a stupid little club for hooligans who have been given football banning orders, and see the shining light of British manhood any more than I see two brainwashed angry black men as the representatives of British Muslims.

Yes the Muslim community should recognise and adopt our values a little more, yes we shouldn't have to apologise for our culture and yes the Muslim community has not always taken responsibility for some of its members but we aren't going to fix things by taring them all with the same brush and persecuting an entire section of society.

 

Oh yeah, another thing that makes my excrement itch is inaccurate comments from keyboard warriors. Trust me, the ammunition the police use is half jacketed. It is used purely to try and limit over penetration. The police dont shoot to kill or shoot to wound, they shoot to neutralise a threat and the quickest and safest wat to do this is to target the centre of the body mass (less suicide bombers and those with body armour). Any calibre of ammunition can kill, the deciding factor is the degree of trauma caused to essential organs and the amount of blood loss. Of course your chance of survival is increased by being shot by police marksmen trained in immediate trauma care and having some of the best paramedics in the world waiting just outside a cordon!

 

I think we were lucky that an unarmed cop wasn't lying in the road along side drummer Rigby.

 

I hope the next time I get near the Internet people have calmed down a bit. Sorry for the rant. Perhaps the mods should kill this strand.

fair play mate, stay safe

[ordnance]

9mms are not immediately fatal,

 

Any bullet can be immediately fatal.

 

I think the police responded admirably. 9 minutes to get unarmed officers to the scene and 14 for armed.

 

 

Not good enough that left 5 minutes were they could have went on a rampage killing more people while the unarmed officers waited for armed response.

 

But a few inches either side and it can be a relatively minor wound and not enough to stop them getting very cross and shooting back at you. The main object in a police shooting being not to kill them but to stop them shooting back.

 

Due to a miss spent youth I have shot rabbits with both 9mm and .38s and a hit to the body often didn't kill them outright.

 

Its not the calibre that's the issue handguns are poor man stoppers , if you want to stop some use a rifle.

Edited May 24, 2013 by ordnance

[overandunder2012]

Any bullet can be immediately fatal.

 

Not good enough that left 5 minutes were they could have went on a rampage killing more people while the unarmed officers waited.

unless you arm all police how can you realistically improve on 14 mins in london traffic

[Fuddster]

Any bullet can be immediately fatal.

 

Not good enough that left 5 minutes were they could have went on a rampage killing more people while the unarmed officers waited.

perhaps the teleporter was unavailable to beam them direct to the scene...have you got a working one on your planet you could lend them?

[ordnance]

perhaps the teleporter was unavailable to beam them direct to the scene...have you got a working one on your planet you could lend them?

 

The first police on the scene should be equipped to deal with the situation. We see this on different occasions Cumbria

for example first police on the scene had to wait for armed response the delay possibly causing more lives.

Edited May 24, 2013 by ordnance

[scimitar]

Byjovecarruthers, thanks for taking the time to contribute to the debate. Hope the tour goes well for you and your unit.

[yickdaz]

Yes the Muslim community should recognise and adopt our values a little more, yes we shouldn't have to apologise for our culture

 

I respect you and the post 100% but here lies the problem

[turbo33]

Nailed by, "byjovecarruthers". Much the same was told to me by a friend who also "knows" and is eminently more qualified to speak on such matters, than the pw civi collective.

 

Stay safe out the Byjovecarruthers. All the best to you and your bn

[byjovecarruthers]

 

Quote

I think the police responded admirably. 9 minutes to get unarmed officers to the scene and 14 for armed.

 

 

"Not good enough that left 5 minutes were they could have went on a rampage killing more people while the unarmed officers waited."

 

"The first police on the scene should be equipped to deal with the situation."

 

 

 

Well they didn't and the police they aren't!

 

People on this forum are the first to complain when armed cops investigate a report if a man with gun and its a pigeon shooter, now you want them all to carry? I personally think its a great idea except for the fact that the police get crucified whatever they do. Would you carry a gun knowing society won't support you?

 

Short of having a peeler with a shooter every 500m on every street in London I don't see how they could've responded better. I bet you're the sort of bloke who reckons he would have taken the two knife and gun wielding cretins on single handed or asks why the police don't shoot guns out of criminals hands. Armchair strategists, I love em. What's worse is I'm becoming one of the half wits who actually bothers arguing on the Internet! In a minute I'll start making spurious comparison to Hitler. God save me. I'm off to the naffi, see you next month.

[byjovecarruthers]

And my spelling and grammar is suffering. I'm taking myself outside with the mess Weobley.

[Bluebarrels]

Quote

I think the police responded admirably. 9 minutes to get unarmed officers to the scene and 14 for armed.

 

 

"Not good enough that left 5 minutes were they could have went on a rampage killing more people while the unarmed officers waited."

 

"The first police on the scene should be equipped to deal with the situation."

 

 

 

Well they didn't and the police they aren't!

 

People on this forum are the first to complain when armed cops investigate a report if a man with gun and its a pigeon shooter, now you want them all to carry? I personally think its a great idea except for the fact that the police get crucified whatever they do. Would you carry a gun knowing society won't support you?

 

Short of having a peeler with a shooter every 500m on every street in London I don't see how they could've responded better. I bet you're the sort of bloke who reckons he would have taken the two knife and gun wielding cretins on single handed or asks why the police don't shoot guns out of criminals hands. Armchair strategists, I love em. What's worse is I'm becoming one of the half wits who actually bothers arguing on the Internet! In a minute I'll start making spurious comparison to Hitler. God save me. I'm off to the naffi, see you next month.

Try and make it a couple of weeks mate I don't fancy waiting a month to read a sensible post but most of all take care and its Naafi BB

Edited May 24, 2013 by Bluebarrels

[byjovecarruthers]

I respect you and the post 100% but here lies the problem

I live in the North West, I know what the problems are. I'm just saying that a fractured society is weaker than a united society. Treating all Muslims like terrorists breeds more terrorists. Same as it did in NI. I don't have the answers but just think jingoistic rants on the Internet don't help and are the thin end of the wedge.

 

Now, I am really leaving PW before the Memsahib kills me for wasting all my Internet minutes on this tripe instead of FBing her so she can tell me how she's going to be spending my tour bonus.

[ordnance]

Short of having a peeler with a shooter every 500m on every street in London I don't see how they could've responded better. I bet you're the sort of bloke who reckons he would have taken the two knife and gun wielding cretins on single handed or asks why the police don't shoot guns out of criminals hands. Armchair strategists, I love em. What's worse is I'm becoming one of the half wits who actually bothers arguing on the Internet! In a minute I'll start making spurious comparison to Hitler. God save me. I'm off to the naffi, see you next month.

 

You obviously don't get it what I am saying is that all police should be armed and able to respond to similar incidents without waiting for back up if you don't understand that's OK. How you take from my post what you said bellow I don't know perhaps you could explain.

I bet you're the sort of bloke who reckons he would have taken the two knife and gun wielding cretins on single handed or asks why the police don't shoot guns out of criminals hands.