have BASC shot shooting in the foot?

[gunsmoke]

On the new web site 'lead shot campaign' set up by BASC they use the figures of '73% duck with lead in', from the Cromie report to show that the Antis could use it against use.

 

The fact is that the Cromie report was written by the WWT and BASC.

 

They can not prove where the duck tested in the report came from.

 

So have BASC shot shooting in the foot?

 

 

 

 

[Bleeh]

On the new web site 'lead shot campaign' set up by BASC they use the figures of '73% duck with lead in', from the Cromie report to show that the Antis could use it against use.

 

The fact is that the Cromie report was written by the WWT and BASC.

 

They can not prove where the duck tested in the report came from.

 

So have BASC shot shooting in the foot?

 

No, they shot themselves in the foot when the stupid **** lead laws came into place.

 

It would make more sense to ban all lead on wetlands, but allow it everywhere else. You regulate the shot you use on your proximity to water, rather than the speicies.

 

The idea that I could go to a SSSI and blast 40,000 lead cartridges into the ground and not break any laws, but then shoot a single duck with lead in the middle of a stubble field and break a law, makes so sense to me at all.

[Big Mat]

Did you not go on and on and on and on about this and many other things a while back?

[mudpatten]

Sorry to point this out gents, but it was the game shooting community, not BASC, which chose to ignore the law on the use of non toxic shot and then sell those unlawfully shot ducks on the open market so that their carcases could be bought and examined by the RSPB, who actually made it public that they were going to do just that!!!

 

Lets bury the fantasy argument once and for all that the birds might have been shot in Scotland. If they all were it opens up a whole new, and dangerous, line of attack for the anti`s about the sheer numbers of birds being killed in the country.

 

And finally, many people choose to ignore the fact that it was the GOVERNMENT, not BASC which passed the whole farce onto the statute book. BASC does not make the laws in this country. that is done by politicians in Parliament. Not BASC...geddit?

[Terry P]

Agree with all you say mudpattern, but BASC should get much stronger with game shoots and tell them to get their act together.

[mudpatten]

Thats exactly what they`re doing at the moment.

 

Part of the problem, and I can say this openly but I`m sure that you appreciate that they can`t, is that Hooray Henry and his law ignoring chums genuinely believe that the law does`nt apply to them "Because it`s stupid."

 

Yes, it is stupid, but it`s still the law. And,as we`re soon going to find out, ignoring it in such a crass and lunatic fashion WILL have consequences.

 

Before Gunsmoke tries to bamboozle us all with his oblique logic, let me reiterate.

 

This entire problem has been caused by a section of the shooting community. Not by BASC.

 

We havent` been shot in the foot by BASC so much as shot in the head by our tweed clad, best London gun wielding, chinless, braying gameshooting chums. Ok yah!

[kent]

Illegal use of lead is the biggest threat to lead ammo, face facts! Stop blaming BASC and whoever else if you use lead on wildfowl in England you are putting its continued use under threat for all quarry. Whatever you might think of the law TOUGH its the law, sign up on the campaign and obey it

[Guest cookoff013]

Sorry to point this out gents, but it was the game shooting community, not BASC, which chose to ignore the law on the use of non toxic shot and then sell those unlawfully shot ducks on the open market so that their carcases could be bought and examined by the RSPB, who actually made it public that they were going to do just that!!!

 

Lets bury the fantasy argument once and for all that the birds might have been shot in Scotland. If they all were it opens up a whole new, and dangerous, line of attack for the anti`s about the sheer numbers of birds being killed in the country.

 

And finally, many people choose to ignore the fact that it was the GOVERNMENT, not BASC which passed the whole farce onto the statute book. BASC does not make the laws in this country. that is done by politicians in Parliament. Not BASC...geddit?

 

Thats exactly what they`re doing at the moment.

 

Part of the problem, and I can say this openly but I`m sure that you appreciate that they can`t, is that Hooray Henry and his law ignoring chums genuinely believe that the law does`nt apply to them "Because it`s stupid."

 

Yes, it is stupid, but it`s still the law. And,as we`re soon going to find out, ignoring it in such a crass and lunatic fashion WILL have consequences.

 

Before Gunsmoke tries to bamboozle us all with his oblique logic, let me reiterate.

 

This entire problem has been caused by a section of the shooting community. Not by BASC.

 

We havent` been shot in the foot by BASC so much as shot in the head by our tweed clad, best London gun wielding, chinless, braying gameshooting chums. Ok yah!

 

well said,

there will be people who refuse to accept the fact they cannot use lead. then you get the idiots who claim otherwise. the laws are very clear here. what BASC should do is continue the campagn.

currently when i remind people to use non toxic, i have been given abuse before.

 

unless the government truely inforces the nontoxic laws, then it will be ignored. banning lead full stop wont do nothing. reloaders will reload.

 

i`m not happy with the laws, i read through exstensively through the documents.

[CharlieT]

Thats exactly what they`re doing at the moment.

 

Part of the problem, and I can say this openly but I`m sure that you appreciate that they can`t, is that Hooray Henry and his law ignoring chums genuinely believe that the law does`nt apply to them "Because it`s stupid."

 

Yes, it is stupid, but it`s still the law. And,as we`re soon going to find out, ignoring it in such a crass and lunatic fashion WILL have consequences.

 

Before Gunsmoke tries to bamboozle us all with his oblique logic, let me reiterate.

 

This entire problem has been caused by a section of the shooting community. Not by BASC.

 

We havent` been shot in the foot by BASC so much as shot in the head by our tweed clad, best London gun wielding, chinless, braying gameshooting chums. Ok yah!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I understood that most, if not all, top end driven game shooting does not include ducks on the menu.

Experience suggests that finishing off the day with a few ducks off the pond is the realm of more modest shoots, not those frequented by those you have such a low and obvious jealous opinion of.

 

I usually enjoy your posts but the chip on your shoulder with regard to game shooting is totally unnecessary and does little for shooting.

[chrispti]

On the new web site 'lead shot campaign' set up by BASC they use the figures of '73% duck with lead in', from the Cromie report to show that the Antis could use it against use.

 

The fact is that the Cromie report was written by the WWT and BASC.

 

They can not prove where the duck tested in the report came from.

 

So have BASC shot shooting in the foot?

Another quality post by Ian summerell.

Edited July 1, 2013 by chrispti

[mpk]

Thats exactly what they`re doing at the moment.

 

Part of the problem, and I can say this openly but I`m sure that you appreciate that they can`t, is that Hooray Henry and his law ignoring chums genuinely believe that the law does`nt apply to them "Because it`s stupid."

 

Yes, it is stupid, but it`s still the law. And,as we`re soon going to find out, ignoring it in such a crass and lunatic fashion WILL have consequences.

 

Before Gunsmoke tries to bamboozle us all with his oblique logic, let me reiterate.

 

This entire problem has been caused by a section of the shooting community. Not by BASC.

 

We havent` been shot in the foot by BASC so much as shot in the head by our tweed clad, best London gun wielding, chinless, braying gameshooting chums. Ok yah!

Couldn't have said that any better

[Reece]

BASC haven't shot shooting in the foot. The people who shoot shooting in the foot are those who break the laws in the first place.

 

Yes, the law is a bit stupid. It should be location based and not species based. But until that change is made (if it is ever made at all, which I hope it is), stick to the laws. Accidents may still happen if ducks turn up on pheasant drives, for example, but over 70% non compliance is simply not on and needs to be reduced.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Reece

[mudpatten]

Charlie, As you can probaly tell, I`m absolutely seething about the whole ruddy thing.

 

Pray tell, if the ducks were not shot by the morons that I so obviously despise, then by whom were they shot? Are you suggesting that they are NOT morons. Are you implying that this was somehow o.k and they they are just misunderstood?

 

They most certainly were not shot by wildfowlers. Most clubs forbid the selling of shot birds and compliance amongst the fowling community is impressively hight.

 

I really don`t have a chip on my shoulder about game shooting and I`m happy to accept any invitations that I receive. What i do have, and am well known for, is a low tolerance threshold for fools and in this case, we have been royally screwed by a bunch of fools.

 

I`m not entirely sure what makes you think I`m in any way jealous of someone,or a group of someones,who`s combined I.Q. is less than the shot size of my favouite lead game shooting cartridge. Something I`d like to keep but which "somebody" is making increasingly less likely by the day.

[Bleeh]

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I understood that most, if not all, top end driven game shooting does not include ducks on the menu.

Experience suggests that finishing off the day with a few ducks off the pond is the realm of more modest shoots, not those frequented by those you have such a low and obvious jealous opinion of.

One of the Shadwell Estates (own by some Arab Sheikh) apparently puts thousands of ducks down. They use a speedboat to scare them up for the guns.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Bleeh

[demonwolf444]

 

The idea that I could go to a SSSI and blast 40,000 lead cartridges into the ground and not break any laws, but then shoot a single duck with lead in the middle of a stubble field and break a law, makes so sense to me at all.

This is where i am at. Well put.

[scolopax]

The wildfowlers and the top end (fully keepered) game shoots use non toxic. Those in the middle tend not to, i.e syndicate / DIY game shoots, farm shoots etc.

[Scully]

BASC doesn't need to shoot 'shooting in the foot';shooters have been doing a pretty good job of doing it to themselves one way or another for decades.

Many people flout laws on a daily basis during their day to day routines,but the regularity and consistency with which many people break the speeding laws isn't going to effect anyone but that individual,whereas flouting shooting laws can,and will(because our enemies will pursue us relentlessly because of their own agendas)have dire consequences for us all.

Shooting appears to have more than its fair share of illogical legislation,and lead shot is just one example,but as long as it is law,then each of us owes it to each othert to do what is in the best interests of shooting in general.But knowing shooters as I do,by past experience,I wont be holding my breath.

[anser2]

The origional data that 70% of ducks in butchers shops were killed with lead comes from a DEFRA survey , but was later confirmed by other organsations. Just ask youreself who shoots enough ducks to have a sizable surpless to sell to the butchers shops. Not average wildfowler , most of whome are restricted by club rules to bag limits and a ban on selling duck. Its the game shoot who has a duck drive or an evening flight over a fed pond who have spare birds to sell to a butchers. Mind you If a ban on lead does come in I for one would not miss lead. I have shot a hell of a lot of pigeons and game with steel in recent years and once learnt how to shoot quality steel shells found it does a very good job. But beware there are a few rubbish steel shells out there.

[Penelope]

Quite.

 

A ridiculous state of affairs.

 

No, they shot themselves in the foot when the stupid **** lead laws came into place.

It would make more sense to ban all lead on wetlands, but allow it everywhere else. You regulate the shot you use on your proximity to water, rather than the speicies.

The idea that I could go to a SSSI and blast 40,000 lead cartridges into the ground and not break any laws, but then shoot a single duck with lead in the middle of a stubble field and break a law, makes so sense to me at all.

[al4x]

you want to check the SSSI's bleeh before doing it as some are covered by the ban.

 

There is a certain logic behind the ban in that it makes enforcement easier south of the border as no ducks should contain lead, however it makes the law an *** in the eyes of shooters as it does little to help the lead levels inland, as most quarry shot in wetland areas you can still shoot with lead. The enforcement issue is the main one as though easier to enforce no one does enforce it and never has done and there is the issue, all it would take is an agency to do spot checks on game dealers and it would stop overnight. There has to be traceability as to where the ducks have come from and then leaning on shoots and levying fines you would need a couple of cases and it would stop and this should have been done in the first season after the ban. I think the petition needs another column for I already stick to the law so it doesn't just look like no one does as an awful lot do. they just don't contribute to ducks in gamedealers

[silver pigeon 3]

No excuse to shoot ducks with lead be it on the foreshore or on a driven day, the law is the law and unless we all want to see the end of lead cartridges forever compliance is a must.

[Livefast123]

It's not only lead cartridges that will be affected if lead is banned, nearly every projectile used in the sport of shooting is made of lead. Imagine the price increases if manufacturers have to develop new non toxic CF and RF rounds.

 

Forgive me for a naive comment but not being a fowler or game shooter I find it difficult to understand why people just can't stick to the law, it's not like steel shot is expensive?

[al4x]

It's not only lead cartridges that will be affected if lead is banned, nearly every projectile used in the sport of shooting is made of lead. Imagine the price increases if manufacturers have to develop new non toxic CF and RF rounds.

 

Forgive me for a naive comment but not being a fowler or game shooter I find it difficult to understand why people just can't stick to the law, it's not like steel shot is expensive?

 

decent shot certainly used to be and more to the point it didn't work well, take the average sportsman give him a load that pricked lots of birds and left wounded ones to be picked and add a law that doesn't make sense over inland ponds and you have the reasons. Non toxic has improved a lot and it has come down in price but when few places insist on it and the alternative tends to work better you have why its flouted.

 

Its not right in any way, not right that you can use lead in the same drive on different species either its bad in wetlands or it isn't.

[CharlieT]

Charlie, As you can probaly tell, I`m absolutely seething about the whole ruddy thing.

 

Pray tell, if the ducks were not shot by the morons that I so obviously despise, then by whom were they shot? Are you suggesting that they are NOT morons. Are you implying that this was somehow o.k and they they are just misunderstood?

 

They most certainly were not shot by wildfowlers. Most clubs forbid the selling of shot birds and compliance amongst the fowling community is impressively hight.

 

I really don`t have a chip on my shoulder about game shooting and I`m happy to accept any invitations that I receive. What i do have, and am well known for, is a low tolerance threshold for fools and in this case, we have been royally screwed by a bunch of fools.

 

I`m not entirely sure what makes you think I`m in any way jealous of someone,or a group of someones,who`s combined I.Q. is less than the shot size of my favouite lead game shooting cartridge. Something I`d like to keep but which "somebody" is making increasingly less likely by the day.

 

Well, I can't take exception to this post. Spot on and I agree with everything you say.

 

I just don't subscribe to the "Toffs" are the cause of all evil, there's plenty of fools in every walk of life as we all know !!

[mossy835]

if steel shot was to come in, how many of us would have to change our guns.how many would go out out the sport.