Lampwick Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 He was just on the BBC I thought he took a bit of a beating! Not sure the BBC liked it too much. The vet put up a good show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Did he mention his 'illness'? You know, the one he doesn't have but still likes to keep bringing up as it keeps him in the news. The man's lower than a snakes belly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lampwick Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Did he mention his 'illness'? You know, the one he doesn't have but still likes to keep bringing up as it keeps him in the news. The man's lower than a snakes belly. No he didn't but did mention the cost per badger at £4k in an effort to wind people up! Didn't mention that would include all the cost of the activity probably inflated by the protestors! The vet was really rather reasoned but May attempted to shout him down, he's was having non of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 The vet and farmer were both excellent, giving reasoned replies to all of the questions. May was continually interrupting to try and prevent their point of view being accepted. He (May) likes to portray himself as being an academic (degree in astrophysics?), and he should stick to a subject that he knows something about rather than getting all emotive. Having said that the badger cull was a disaster; being badly organised and meeting none of its objectives in terms of badger population control to the targets set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 The vet and farmer were both excellent, giving reasoned replies to all of the questions. May was continually interrupting to try and prevent their point of view being accepted. He (May) likes to portray himself as being an academic (degree in astrophysics?), and he should stick to a subject that he knows something about rather than getting all emotive. Having said that the badger cull was a disaster; being badly organised and meeting none of its objectives in terms of badger population control to the targets set. As soon as 'targets' are introduced whether it be banking, insurance, furniture sales or whatever, the need to meet these soon become indirectly proportional to the satisfaction of everyone/thing involved. In this case this was exacerbated by external interference. The simple fact is that now there are too many and while continuing to protect them from the obscene activities that we all know about, putting them on a 'general licence' format, but issued only to farmers in areas where the disease is rife, would reduce those numbers and the disease to pre 1981 (was it?) levels in a humane and controlled manner until such time as an effective veterinary solution is found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Is there an iPlayer link lads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 About 07:38 on BBC breakfast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 As soon as 'targets' are introduced whether it be banking, insurance, furniture sales or whatever, the need to meet these soon become indirectly proportional to the satisfaction of everyone/thing involved. In this case this was exacerbated by external interference. The simple fact is that now there are too many and while continuing to protect them from the obscene activities that we all know about, putting them on a 'general licence' format, but issued only to farmers in areas where the disease is rife, would reduce those numbers and the disease to pre 1981 (was it?) levels in a humane and controlled manner until such time as an effective veterinary solution is found. I suppose it would then be a "special licence" and makes perfect sense, as the basis of the system already exists. how many farmers would struggle to find a local guy competent and willing to undertake the task for free if they couldn't themselves? Once you involve officials costs rise out of all proportion to the task at hand, you only have to look at Local councils to work out that one. BTW. Sales targets are generally set a fixed percentage higher than what is required, I wonder if the same was done here? Personally I doubt it as we are not dealing with realists once we talk of the halls of officialdom instead we are talking job generation and protection, leading us back to those costs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 No he didn't but did mention the cost per badger at £4k in an effort to wind people up! Didn't mention that would include all the cost of the activity probably inflated by the protestors! The vet was really rather reasoned but May attempted to shout him down, he's was having non of it. My understanding is the actual cull costs were quite low, but overall costs were high due to the protesters. So if the antis consider it expensive, then....... note to protesters....don't protest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNS Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 According to the BBC, quoting independent data, 18% of badgers shot in the cull took more than five minutes to die. I don't shoot vermin, so I have no direct experience of foxing, but the general impression one would form from posts and pictures on here is that a 100 yard plus clean kill on a fox, at night, was pretty routine. Assuming it's true, what's your view? Posters on here are heroic super-shots? The badger shooters were poor shots? A badger is difficult to kill? I don't know - but it's not great publicity for shooting as a humane means of badger control. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26369306 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 According to the BBC, quoting independent data, 18% of badgers shot in the cull took more than five minutes to die. I don't shoot vermin, so I have no direct experience of foxing, but the general impression one would form from posts and pictures on here is that a 100 yard plus clean kill on a fox, at night, was pretty routine. Assuming it's true, what's your view? Posters on here are heroic super-shots? The badger shooters were poor shots? A badger is difficult to kill? I don't know - but it's not great publicity for shooting as a humane means of badger control. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26369306 In view of a previous experience on here, I'd better say from the off that I do not, will not, shoot Brock. Hopefully, with about 5 years of sport left in me I have no intention of losing that or my freedom. However, I'm old enough to have been knocking about when it was legal to do so. In terms of flesh and bone he is not difficult to kill. Having said that the legal minimum calibre requirements leave a lot to be desired in my view. In other respects it is not easy. Brock is low on the ground and the chances of a bullet deflecting just before it strikes are high - you can see Brock, but not the stubble stalk. An experienced fox shooter taking a fox chest shot will make a mess of it - Brock's vitals are not at the top of his leg. Consequently, the need to get it done in a given timescale is a disaster as has been demonstrated. It is essential to have the visibility to ensure a clear foreground. Not to mention knowing the correct PoA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 He was just on the BBC I thought he took a bit of a beating! Not sure the BBC liked it too much. The vet put up a good show! I saw it this morning; it was brilliant car crash telly. Brian May came across as an irrational loon and looked like a tramp. The Vet and the farmer appeared professional and rational. I'm not joking, Brian Man did more damage to his cause than good without a doubt. I just wish more people could have seen it and seen him for the crazed, obsessed and irrational individual that he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) The badgers i see around my permissions you could easily walk up to within 10 or so yards, so definitely no need for silly shooting by those involved in the cull. The quote that was made with regards to 5 minutes to die i find ridiculous, if its true then the choice of so called marksmen was poor by the oranisers, but i take the comment with a pinch of salt as it just sounds good for the anti's propaganda. Badgers are no more difficult to kill than other species within the weight bracket, with Badger's weighing up to about 30 lb and that,s a fair size beast they are well within the capabilities of nearly all but the smallest lowest powered CF. If the minimum calibre for Chinese Water Deer is .22 and no less than 1000 ft/lb then they will do the same job on Badgers, obviously shot placement is important as always. Edited February 28, 2014 by Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I just wish more people could have seen it and seen him for the crazed, obsessed and irrational individual that he is. And here it is in all it's glory, for those that missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Brian May - absolute plonker. He made a fool of himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 According to the BBC, quoting independent data, 18% of badgers shot in the cull took more than five minutes to die. I don't shoot vermin, so I have no direct experience of foxing, but the general impression one would form from posts and pictures on here is that a 100 yard plus clean kill on a fox, at night, was pretty routine. Assuming it's true, what's your view? Posters on here are heroic super-shots? The badger shooters were poor shots? A badger is difficult to kill? I don't know - but it's not great publicity for shooting as a humane means of badger control. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26369306 You are ahead of me, just started a new topic on this very subject, how were these figures compiled and who the heck was shooting them? Much training/experience/paperwork were required for cull shooter approval I understand. Badger are not that difficult to kill, and higher than normally suggested power/calibre/energy were used as a minimum from my understanding of the recent cull??????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrob Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Funny how they don't want to talk about the success of the cull in Ireland - a 50% drop in bovine TB in 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Funny how they don't want to talk about the success of the cull in Ireland - a 50% drop in bovine TB in 2 years. I understand one of the reasons we instigated this cull is because of the degree of success it achieved in Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerSim Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Brian May - absolute plonker. He made a fool of himself. Agreed. I should perhaps add "again" - he should try working livestock for a living - it might give him some insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Being a trial wasn't there a requirement to shoot a certain number with shotguns? That might explain the time issue otherwise there is no way using decent caliber rifles that there is any excuse for the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Badger are not that difficult to kill, and higher than normally suggested power/calibre/energy were used as a minimum from my understanding of the recent cull? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1000ft/lbs and 50 grains. The legal requirement (where permitted) is 160ft/lbs and 38 grains which is a 22WMR (which is a relatively rare weapon according to the Game Conservancy Trust report to DEFRA in 2006 and which lays down the basis for a cull, but which also states that another main use of the 22LR is stalking hares and foxes). Energy at the muzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Being a trial wasn't there a requirement to shoot a certain number with shotguns? That might explain the time issue otherwise there is no way using decent caliber rifles that there is any excuse for the time You could well be right. 12 bore, 3/4 or 1/2 choke, AAA or BB and max range 10 yards. Considering the spread at that range which is the max, not the min, that just has to be missing/wounding distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 1000ft/lbs and 50 grains. The legal requirement (where permitted) is 160ft/lbs and 38 grains which is a 22WMR (which is a relatively rare weapon according to the Game Conservancy Trust report to DEFRA in 2006 and which lays down the basis for a cull, but which also states that another main use of the 22LR is stalking hares and foxes). Energy at the muzzle. I was aware of the WMR minimum (which isn't entirely correct as it's actually 160ft lb, 38g, which some 40g .22lr can deliver) and the cull requirement was basically small deer spec, which makes marksmen and the 5 minutes to die even more odd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 on radio4 the ratio of badgers that had taken moor than 5 mins to dye was up to 6-18% so there is there a little fudging of the numbers to make headlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 How do they know they took 5 minutes to die? 1700 killed, 6-18% died slowly apparently. With a shotgun, a follow up shot would be easy. With a rifle, at long range, at night, if it dropped out of sight after the first shot, then not easy to take second shot. But then how do you know it is still alive? Squealing? Surely it would take less than 5 minutes to walk (jog) over to it and dispatch? I just don't get how around 200 out of 1700 shot died that slowly, and who recorded it? Most people who post up their targets on here have the odd flier, and I can understand 6-18% not being killed outright on first shot, but no follow up? Maybe it started as 6-18% not killed with first shot, and got morphed into took 5 minutes to die... It doesnt seem right though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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