David BASC Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 As to what BASC are doing see here: http://basc.org.uk/blog/media/consultations/english-general-licences-consultation-have-your-say/ David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Not BASC bashing but I wonder what the Chairman (BASC) thinks of this - given he was Uplands Director for NE ? Is he shocked, outraged on our behalf or acquiescent with former colleagues proposals? I'd like to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Doesn't do any favours for the poor bunnies and the squizzers does it though they can be bashed regardless as long as you don't inflict cruelty . Edited March 2, 2014 by Zetter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW682 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 There is quite a lot of detail in the new proposals, with species coming on and off, changes to the terms and conditions (like this one in the thread, a requirement to have read and understood the licences before being able to use them), proposals for voluntary or compulsary reporting of numbers shot etc. So far the discussions on PW have concentrated on Greylag geese. link to NE page http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/regulation/wildlife/licences/wildlifelicensingconsultation.aspx all details in the top document http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/cl-consultation-document_tcm6-37389.pdf the section on the condition discussed is: The ‘No Satisfactory Alternative’ legal test Summary: Proposal to amend the wording of the condition requiring licence users to have considered legal, non-lethal measures before they rely on a General Licence. Explanation and Rationale The wording of conditions must be clear and enforceable. We have received a number of queries regarding the obligation required by this wording, including from the Police, suggesting that the current condition is insufficiently precise. This condition is included in certain general licences to ensure that Section 16 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act is satisfied; this stipulates that: "(1A) The appropriate authority— (a) shall not grant a licence for any purpose mentioned in subsection (1) unless it is satisfied that, as regards that purpose, there is no other satisfactory solution;" In respect to decisions regarding general licences, the licensing authority makes a general assessment of alternatives prior to issuing a licence. Where appropriate, the licensing authority may also make it a condition of a general licence that potential users fully consider and, where appropriate, try alternative measures before taking any action under the authority of the licence. This condition ensures that the licence is only used in appropriate situations, and allows the licensing authority to issue a licence without knowing the details of each occasion in which it may be used. The current wording of the condition is: "In respect to the species listed at paragraph 2(i)(a) above, this licence can only be relied on in circumstances where the authorised person is satisfied that appropriate legal methods of resolving the problem such as scaring and proofing are either ineffective or impracticable" Proposal(s) 31(a) Amend the wording of the following condition from: "In respect to the species listed at paragraph 2(i)(a) above, this licence can only be relied on in circumstances where the authorised person is satisfied that appropriate legal methods of resolving the problem such as scaring and proofing are either ineffective or impracticable" to: "In respect to the species listed at paragraph 2(i)(a) above, this licence can only be relied on in circumstances where the authorised person has taken reasonable and appropriate steps to resolve the problem, such as scaring and proofing". Consultation Question(s): Question 31(a): Are you aware of any reasons why the change outlined in Proposal 31(a) should not be made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 How do you make a field of rape PIGEON PROOF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I agree that this is not going to affect much in practical terms if you are on your own or with a syndicate and shooting but what about people who make hunting shows like Fieldsports Britain. Would they have to prove on camera that they are scaring the birds first? If they just shot them straight way they couldn't exactly pretend that they tried scaring them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 So you're sat in your hide and you take a shot and miss a pigeon, that counts as a warning shot, crack on. Or a little light music from your radio whilst sat in the pigeon hide, crack on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael262 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571214/Shoo-shoot-jail-warning-farmers-hit-crows-new-plans-labelled-ludicrous-countryside-groups.html What's happening to this country 😮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The lunatics have taken over the funny farm without a doubt. To many people with over inflated salaries and to little to do in my opinion. Totally out of touch with the requirements of crop protection and vermin control. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88b Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 It must be ukip's fault. Exactly how are they going to police this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 It makes interesting reading ----------------------------------------------- but this is the fourth time its been posted today See http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/276693-some-one-got-to-have-had-a-drink-when-they-come-up-with-this-one/ or http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/276696-must-read-your-thoughts/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad1 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Does that mean I'm safe cos I can't hit them with first shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 You can have your say in the consultation process... http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/regulation/wildlife/wildlifelicenceconsultationfeature.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parapilot Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Have a scarecrow out all week, they when you go shooting remove it. Put it back after shooting. Sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 All of the threads on this topic have been merged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Have a scarecrow out all week, they when you go shooting remove it. Put it back after shooting. Sorted. Are you being serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Maybe its time to open a clay shooting ground... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parapilot Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Are you being serious? Yer, already made mine. I'll be scaring birds all week with this baby and if they return at the weekend I'll have no choice but to shoot em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Beggars belief: http://www.edp24.co.uk/mobile/business/farming-news/completely_bonkers_that_s_the_verdict_of_farmers_to_new_shoo_before_shooting_policy_to_deal_with_pigeons_1_3395939 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongaanie Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 well they can get my cell ready and by the sounds of it the prisons are going to be full so better book your place guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but this condition has been in the general licence all along?!? It's not new and you shouldn't be surprised. Essentially, you're all (and more worryingly, our shooting bodies) admitting to shooting outside of the general licence conditions. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? I just checked the oldest version I have of the licence, from January 2011. The very first condition is; 3. In respect to the species listed at paragraph 2(i)(a) above, this licence can only be relied on in circumstances where the authorised person is satisfied that appropriate legal methods of resolving the problem such as scaring and proofing are either ineffective or impracticable (see note o). Edited March 8, 2014 by huffhuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 You have got the wrong end of the stick, currently the shooter is left to judge for themselves the best method of control, and if their view simply scaring would be ineffective, then its perfectly legitimate to shoot pigeons. Under the proposed changes to the GL the burden of proof would rest with the shooter that alternative methods such as “scaring” have been tried before shooting. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 You have got the wrong end of the stick, currently the shooter is left to judge for themselves the best method of control, and if their view simply scaring would be ineffective, then its perfectly legitimate to shoot pigeons. Under the proposed changes to the GL the burden of proof would rest with the shooter that alternative methods such as “scaring” have been tried before shooting. David I can't be ***** to read the whole thing again, but is there a list of 'scaring' methods which would have to be adhered to? Or is it, once again, just a load of ill thought out waffle from some old twitcher with a dodgy beard at NE? Either way, without guidelines as to what actually constitutes 'scaring' the narrative will be useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 The issue with the proposal is that the burden of proof would rest with the shooter to prove that alternative methods had been tried before shooting is used, the existence or not of a definitive list makes no difference I am afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 The issue with the proposal is that the burden of proof would rest with the shooter to prove that alternative methods had been tried before shooting is used, the existence or not of a definitive list makes no difference I am afraid Well in the absence of any definitive guidelines as to what actually constitutes an 'alternative' method of control I really can't see any problems, as there would be nothing to 'enforce'. It would become a 'my word against yours' scenario, and totally unenforceable. Seems to me that NE are trying to appease the hand wringers by being seen to be doing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.