RSPCA and some MP's want to ban Shock Collars

[TaxiDriver]

Just watched a feature on Anglia TV news,

Apparently moves are afoot to ban the use of 'Electric shock' dog training collars,

had some bint from the RSPCA and apparently some MP's are backing the campaign which has already had its first reading in the House of Lords.

 

I don't know personally if theyre a good thing or a bad thing having never personally had to resort to one although the wife has left me sorely tempted many times,

I suspect like many tools, It is how theyre used or sadly, mis used that causes the problems.

 

What do you think ??

[955i]

There is nothing a dog can't be trained to do without their use.

 

If you can't get your dog to do it without one, you need to look at how you are training it.

[Twistedsanity]

As above really, if you need to give your dog electric shocks to train it you shouldn't have a dog

[sitsinhedges]

Don't like the idea of them at all.

[fruity]

Yep all of above sums it up , no need for them

[kent]

They have a use in the right hands for the right reason. Issue is there are a lot of numpties about who will use them for anything and as a replacement for traditionally proven ways. Try training a real hardened stock worrier out of its ways without one, it will work out better to just shoot it and cheaper on dead sheep by far.

Ace for aversion work rubbish for recall and things better accomplished by reward based training. Can you teach the general populous that ? Not honestly most already know it all like the RSPCA and the Politicians.

[pigeon-hunter]

I knew a guy at work who had a Rottweiler, he trained it with an electric shock collar not sure what one but it was huge, there wasn't a problem with the dog lashing out and needless to say the dog was trained quickly, but at 2 yrs old it went a bit scatty they took him to the vet and he jus dropped down dead. Now I'm not saying this happens a lot and also the vet didn't specifically say the over use of the collar was the reason but there was no other reason they found for the dog just to drop down dead. I wouldn't think of using one anyway but even more so after I heard this.

[BRAD1927]

In my opinion this is a barbaric tool that should of been banned a very long time ago. If you require the use of one of these collars then quite frankly either you are not educated enough to train a dog or you have the wrong dog!!

I have seen several very well bred dogs ruined by the use of these collars purely because the owners do not have the knowledge, time and patience to train a dog properly.

The worse case that I have seen is a dog that had been shocked so much just the sight of the collar or any similar item including the TV remote it would freeze and pee itself!!

I personally say ban them so for once best of luck to the MP's and RSPCA.

[scotslad]

In my opinion this is a barbaric tool that should of been banned a very long time ago. If you require the use of one of these collars then quite frankly either you are not educated enough to train a dog or you have the wrong dog!!

 

I have seen several very well bred dogs ruined by the use of these collars purely because the owners do not have the knowledge, time and patience to train a dog properly.

 

The worse case that I have seen is a dog that had been shocked so much just the sight of the collar or any similar item including the TV remote it would freeze and pee itself!!

 

I personally say ban them so for once best of luck to the MP's and RSPCA.

 

So should hazel walking stick, alkethene pipes or work boots even leads also be banned when walking training dogs? All can be misused by idiots that don't know any better and used to inflict pain on a dog. U only have to go to a fescue pound to see doga scared of almost anything as having been used to beat it

 

The big problem is lack of knowledge and folk not realising how to use them, and just how much damage they can cause when used wrong and undo months of training very easily

 

Personallly i don't entirely agree with them, BUT in some cases they can solve a problem or save a dogs life (if stock worrying) and with some breeds there possibly is more reason, with a lab or spaniel should be easily trained using normal methods, u speak to hpr people most have at some point needed to use 1 for occasional problems, u try chasing a dog quarting at 200m over rough ground to chastise it, would take usain bolt 20secs to get there on a track never mind heather/rashes, me a lot longer do u really think the dog knows wot it is getting a row for 40 odd secs later? Whereas with an electric 1 vibrate/slight shock dog associates instantly.

 

I think u should have to do a course in there Proper use first afore u buy 1, far to many idiots buying 1 straight of net andusing it without knowing wot they are doing or the damage they can cause.

 

Those folk on ur high horse are Anti barkcollars acceptable then? They also give te dog a shock

 

Should electric stock fences be banned? After all many are of the mains

Edited March 7, 2014 by scotslad

[Paul223]

You can't legislate for idiots, the more we can prove that fact the better as one day it's a dog collar some time in the future it'll be sgc and fac

 

Banning everything is not the answer!

[kent]

 

So should hazel walking stick, alkethene pipes or work boots even leads also be banned when walking training dogs? All can be misused by idiots that don't know any better and used to inflict pain on a dog. U only have to go to a fescue pound to see doga scared of almost anything as having been used to beat it

 

The big problem is lack of knowledge and folk not realising how to use them, and just how much damage they can cause when used wrong and undo months of training very easily

 

Personallly i don't entirely agree with them, BUT in some cases they can solve a problem or save a dogs life (if stock worrying) and with some breeds there possibly is more reason, with a lab or spaniel should be easily trained using normal methods, u speak to hpr people most have at some point needed to use 1 for occasional problems, u try chasing a dog quarting at 200m over rough ground to chastise it, would take usain bolt 20secs to get there on a track never mind heather/rashes, me a lot longer do u really think the dog knows wot it is getting a row for 40 odd secs later? Whereas with an electric 1 vibrate/slight shock dog associates instantly.

 

I think u should have to do a course in there Proper use first afore u buy 1, far to many idiots buying 1 straight of net andusing it without knowing wot they are doing or the damage they can cause.

 

Those folk on ur high horse are Anti barkcollars acceptable then? They also give te dog a shock

 

Should electric stock fences be banned? After all many are of the mains

 

You see some of us understand them others don't. Like a gun they can end up in the wrong hands, it was amazing when I sold my unit as I insisted on vetting what some people thought (quite wrongly) they were good for. The option is going to be a lot of dead yet potentially good dogs if they are banned, though I except its a balance against those saved from being damaged by improper use.

To some degree the sellers of the units are responsible for their own demise if this happens, according to some they can be well used for practically anything.

[ian g]

they have no place in the training of a normal dog but i can see that they could be usefull in some situations eg dog chasing sheep were if seen by a farmer could possibly be shot anyway so a small shock to change that behavior isnt a bad thing

[Catweazle]

I used one to stop my dog from rolling in fox poo. It worked a treat, and I wouldn't hesitate to use one again.

[robbsy]

As above when used correctly they are brilliant and yes I used one on my cocker for 2 months and also aware of other people who used them for a brief period of time to remove stubborn bad habits, I appreciate it's a hot topic but good to see some constructive comments as well a the opinionated drivel

[cracker]

Just watched a feature on Anglia TV news,

Apparently moves are afoot to ban the use of 'Electric shock' dog training collars,

had some bint from the RSPCA and apparently some MP's are backing the campaign which has already had its first reading in the House of Lords.

 

Word from across the pond is that the good ol' House of Sclerotics have put a "rider" on this bill that requires replacing steering wheels in automobiles with reins, so that folk get a true understanding of driving and can't make any sudden turns that take them over a cliff...

 

MG

Edited March 7, 2014 by cracker

[Twistedsanity]

How could there ever be a " correct use" for electrocuting an animal apart from in an abattoir? I'm sorry but anybody who thinks they have a place in dog training shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a dog , there are no exceptions

[kent]

How could there ever be a " correct use" for electrocuting an animal apart from in an abattoir? I'm sorry but anybody who thinks they have a place in dog training shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a dog , there are no exceptions

To make that comparison shows a little greater than NIL knowledge of the subject at hand. The shock levels are so much lower than the stunning tongs and you set them from a point the dog gives just a quizzical look. Even at full power on the best units I should shock myself before I used it on an animal and I certainly shouldn't do that with tongs.

If you ever get a bold / brazen stock chaser (which can occur after normal stock breaking methods have appeared to work) are you suggesting you just shoot it and be done? or perhaps distract it with cheese treats when its well into its stride and gaining fast? Heck lets just commit those animals to a half life on the lead! And re-home them in a flat the city

To train a dog better recall, sit and stay, turn on the whistle, stop on it or as a crazy way of keeping them from breaking fence I agree they have no place. For some matters they are certainly a life saver

[Tim Kelly]

I use one on my spaniel some of the time. Entirely my fault that he's not better trained, but I got him at about a year old and assumed he was part trained. He took a long time to settle in and for me to get to know the dog. He works well enough but sometimes gets a rush of blood to the head and charges off after birds and ignores the whistle. If I give him a couple of taps on the collar it is enough to break his concentration on what he wants to do and to listen to me again. My old dog I had from a puppy and he was a very easy dog to work. This one is more of a challenge, but has his better points. If I had more time I expect I could get him working without the collar, but it has absolutely no negative effect on the dog and is a very mild shock. Massively more uncomfortable for dogs to be charging through brambles and scraping their way under barbed wire fences.

 

I feel no guilt about using the collar occasionally, my only worry is working a dog with a collar of any type on and it getting hung up.

[Paul223]

I don't think it's anything like a stun gun, sorry can't see the comparison, never used an electric collar myself but I can see the sense in what scotslad has wrote

[washerboy]

Used one to stop a terrier howling in his kennel but would never use one on a dog walking out

[michufc]

I used one as a last resort on one of my cockers as it started running for the road on a couple of occasions then it ran straight infron of the farmers bailer and narrowly missed her to which I rightly got a ####ing. So I stop taking my dog out and lost all confidence in her so I brought a collar and took her out and again ran for the tractor and I gave her a tone then shock and she came back straight away.

I no longer needed to ever use the shock function but the tone worked on other occasions then it was not used again.

 

So all these people having a pop because they are lucky enough to not have this problem happen to them should take a step back and think as a last resort it's better than giving up on your dog or putting to sleep as long as it's used correctly.

[Tam]

they have no place in the training of a normal dog but i can see that they could be usefull in some situations eg dog chasing sheep were if seen by a farmer could possibly be shot anyway so a small shock to change that behavior isnt a bad thing

 

I don't think it's anything like a stun gun, sorry can't see the comparison, never used an electric collar myself but I can see the sense in what scotslad has wrote

 

 

There is nothing a dog can't be trained to do without their use.

 

If you can't get your dog to do it without one, you need to look at how you are training it.

Far better if when used correctly than what most established trainers use to break the dogs spirit alkathine pipe strings to mind

[kent]

I used one as a last resort on one of my cockers as it started running for the road on a couple of occasions then it ran straight infron of the farmers bailer and narrowly missed her to which I rightly got a ####ing. So I stop taking my dog out and lost all confidence in her so I brought a collar and took her out and again ran for the tractor and I gave her a tone then shock and she came back straight away.

I no longer needed to ever use the shock function but the tone worked on other occasions then it was not used again.

 

So all these people having a pop because they are lucky enough to not have this problem happen to them should take a step back and think as a last resort it's better than giving up on your dog or putting to sleep as long as it's used correctly.

 

You know we are all entitled to our opinion but I personally think this is not a good use of the collar. At best you get a dog that's fine when its wearing the collar. The whole tone then shock thing breaks my own personal rules. Used for aversion the dog should never associate anything but the action with an adverse reaction, collar on or off trainer about or not about the dirty deed is then cured.

 

Now if we took the tractor itself and her desire to chase it rather than the act of blanking stop and recall that's a whole new ball park that is well easy to set up and sort in a few aversion lessons. No warning beep, no association with the collar (long familiarisation prior) no connection to owner with correction and not to the hand set, just that tractor and its strange voodoo power when you get too close. I should go out of my way and set up a few runs through with the machine, once its had a go or two its usually a fix for life but test it until its proven. Then get rid of the kit because they can stop you thinking of other ways if another issue arises.

[scotslad]

I use one on my spaniel some of the time. Entirely my fault that he's not better trained, but I got him at about a year old and assumed he was part trained. He took a long time to settle in and for me to get to know the dog. He works well enough but sometimes gets a rush of blood to the head and charges off after birds and ignores the whistle. If I give him a couple of taps on the collar it is enough to break his concentration on what he wants to do and to listen to me again. My old dog I had from a puppy and he was a very easy dog to work. This one is more of a challenge, but has his better points. If I had more time I expect I could get him working without the collar, but it has absolutely no negative effect on the dog and is a very mild shock. Massively more uncomfortable for dogs to be charging through brambles and scraping their way under barbed wire fences.

 

I feel no guilt about using the collar occasionally, my only worry is working a dog with a collar of any type on and it getting hung up.

 

Sorry but that is not how u should use 1, if u can't train ur dog well enough to stop to whistle or 'OI' when whistle doesnae work (which does happen) u shouldnae have ur dogs out working.

Just lazy training having them on just incase.

 

I was on a large commercial shoot 1 day, this old b ugger that beats had lost his cocker again!! after the drive I gave him a hand look for it he would call/whistle for it then press the shock button if it did not suddenly magically appear, i tried to explain that he had absolutely no idea wot dog was doing, it may well have been running back to him out of sight and still gettin shocked. No wonder the dog is a mess

Really no excuse for having them on a shoot day, unless for a specific reason/fault

 

My young lab is a b ugger on the grouse for picking birds of butt's (my fualt for working it to young) it could be easily sorted with a collar (as a mad keen retriever) but i can't bring myself to put 1 on it esp on a shoot day

 

I think they should be restricted to only folk that have been trained to use them, i would say quite a large number are used badly.

Would not like to see them become a go to tool like in other countries but they could have very specific uses in some circumstances

 

Thoose who very striongly object to them, Are electric stock fences OK? Surely it can't be right to give those cows and sheep mains electric shocks

[Tim Kelly]

I agree that his faults are down to my poor training, however I absolutely disagree that it is doing the dog any harm, and it makes the situation manageable. One of the shoots I beat on he is the only dog that is actually working off the lead quite often, so he has to cover a lot of ground quickly. Not an ideal situation for the dog, me or the shoot, but it is what it is. The end result is a reasonably satisfactory one and the dog does himself far more damage going through the cover than an occasional tingle in the neck achieves.