turbo33 Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 There was a thread on this subject a while ago. I used the last of my "old blue box" Winchester .22 subs a week or so ago. My CZ 452 was incredibly accurate with them. So picked up some more, that are now in the re-vamped black box. The accuracy is dire with these, so I concur with op about something changing My rifle is zero'd at 50 yards, and the blue box subs dropped 5.75" at 100yds. Yesterday, I checked zero, at 50, then pushed out to see what the drop was at 100. It was 2" lower than previously, at 7.5". I tried Eleys a while ago, and they were very good, but quite tight to chamber which I am uncomfortable with. So I guess its go on that, "find a make that suits your rifle" panto!! The annoying thing is the limited shops round here, don't seem to stock anything else Why do manufacturers change things about when its all going well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 That's the trouble with 22 rimfire, we are at the mercy of the factory who makes it and the suits that make decisions not for our benefit but usually for the accountants! Finding ammo that behaves much beyond 60yards is getting more and more hit or miss (no pun intended). At one time I made do with target ammo for a little more consistency, now I just get closer. U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 I've had the misfortune to have a couple hundred of the black box rounds,they were abysmal.Luckily one of the local RFD's has a good supply of the white and blue boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I have'nt tried the new black box ones yet, owing to the fact that I have 1200 of the old stock left. (I can legally keep 1500) It's a shame if Winchester have produced such bad ammunition. I have used their Winchester sub sonic brand since the 1980's when they were 38gr. I'll see if I can pick up a box of the new stuff and try it for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Perhaps I'm getting mixed up and I don't have any of the new ones, but didn't the box change coincide with a change in manufacturing plant as well!? Edited April 30, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Perhaps I'm getting mixed up and I don't have any of the new ones, but didn't the box change coincide with a change in manufacturing plant as well!? I didn't know the manufacturing plant may have changed......could explain a bit Dekers, your a bisley man, do they sell any subs over there or is it all target stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I didn't know the manufacturing plant may have changed......could explain a bit Dekers, your a bisley man, do they sell any subs over there or is it all target stuff? YES, Fred at the main Armoury (Range Office) certainly used to sell subs, I've bought CCI, etc HP from him in the past, worth a try. Also Fultons, and perhaps a good bet would be the NSRA shop at The Lords Roberts Centre! But I have to say I can't remember ever looking for Winchester subs at Bisley...I could do with some myself actually! Closest place to me that I know for sure actually sells the Winchester is a farm shop Bourne End Way, not too bad for me, and only a few miles up the road from Sheephouse Shooting where I get a bit these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thanks Dekers Sk and Lapua seem popular alternatives..........might have to do some alternative hunting!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 This would explain why my groups have opened up with many more fliers than I used to get! I hadnt considered the ammo as its been so good up until now. Time to find a new brand :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Seems its not just the subs that have a QC issue :o http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/chris-dumm/winchester-pulls-major-derp-recalls-lots-22-long-rifle-ammo/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Must say, having started off with the 38 gr CCI, changing to the Winchester and then Eley which gave me a progressive improvement in accuracy in my rifle which stopped when the Eley went to pot, I found the recent poll for sub usage somewhat surprising. Even if we accept that the best round is the one most accurate in your rifle, I thought the very low number of votes - 5 - cast for SK particularly surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Must say, having started off with the 38 gr CCI, changing to the Winchester and then Eley which gave me a progressive improvement in accuracy in my rifle which stopped when the Eley went to pot, I found the recent poll for sub usage somewhat surprising. Even if we accept that the best round is the one most accurate in your rifle, I thought the very low number of votes - 5 - cast for SK particularly surprising. Votes in any poll are simply a reflection of peoples preferences, commonly dictated by availability, put simply, most people use the closest supermarket to them, and the closest filling station and the closest RFD, that being the case the relatively limited availability of SK would reflect its poll position, as would the most widely distributed/available ammo reflect in a high placing! Human nature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I recently tried for SK Lapua for the first time. The reason being there is only one supplier in Norfolk and Suffolk that i am aware of. They are extremely good. You only have to look at them to know they are quality and will shoot. As a contrast nearly every RFD stocks Winchester / CCI / Remington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I use SK standard plus in my gallery rifle 10/22 and i have no complaints about it's performance though i know a few guys have moved onto RWS as they thought they were getting the odd flier.I prefer the the whallop of the winchesters when out for rabbits and the like,never had a problem to think of with the blue or white boxed ones.I got about 250 rounds in the black boxes a while back and i ended up just popping them off at the range to get rid.Lots of low powered shots in a couple of boxes there were probably one in every two or three shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Votes in any poll are simply a reflection of peoples preferences, commonly dictated by availability, put simply, most people use the closest supermarket to them, and the closest filling station and the closest RFD, that being the case the relatively limited availability of SK would reflect its poll position, as would the most widely distributed/available ammo reflect in a high placing! Human nature! Agree entirely. However, also think that often a little effort brings its own rewards. I drive straight past my nearest RFD to get the service provided by the one further down the road who will order what I would like. He gets my business and keeps it and I get what I want. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Turbo NSRA do Lapua as I have bought them there in the past, IIRC they will only do solids though not hollow point. I was behind someone with terrible jamming issues @ Bisley, they were using the 'new' Winchesters. I gave him a handful of the my ones and they cycled perfectly, so there is a difference and it doesn't seem like a good one. Pity I have never shot anything else and never had any issues with them at all, but mine are still the light blue boxed stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I have been using SK Subs for a couple of years now and found them to be the most accurate in my two CZ 452's. They are not cheap but I want accuracy and consistency. The Barn Shop a few miles outside Royston in Hertfordshire was my stockist but now taken over by Stutley's who will not supply them (not particularly helpful about it either). Fenland Rural Sports stock them but it is a bit of a hike, I will pay them a visit though. It is really frustrating when you go to a lot of trouble purchasing a box each of several makes of ammunition, spend hours shooting paper to select the best one for your gun and then find that it is no longer readily available. Arguably it is even worse when manufacturers change the 'recipe' as seems to be the case with Winchester. I shoot a lot..... My certificate only allows 600 to hold and 500 to buy. It would not be so bad if I could purchase 5000. My renewal is just going through and I have asked for an increase to 1000 on the grounds that I want batch consistency. It will be interesting to see what they say, may give them a ring and see what is possible (Cambridgeshire). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I have been using SK Subs for a couple of years now and found them to be the most accurate in my two CZ 452's. They are not cheap but I want accuracy and consistency. The Barn Shop a few miles outside Royston in Hertfordshire was my stockist but now taken over by Stutley's who will not supply them (not particularly helpful about it either). Fenland Rural Sports stock them but it is a bit of a hike, I will pay them a visit though. It is really frustrating when you go to a lot of trouble purchasing a box each of several makes of ammunition, spend hours shooting paper to select the best one for your gun and then find that it is no longer readily available. Arguably it is even worse when manufacturers change the 'recipe' as seems to be the case with Winchester. I shoot a lot..... My certificate only allows 600 to hold and 500 to buy. It would not be so bad if I could purchase 5000. My renewal is just going through and I have asked for an increase to 1000 on the grounds that I want batch consistency. It will be interesting to see what they say, may give them a ring and see what is possible (Cambridgeshire). Absolutely agree Dadioles Re raising your buy/hold, I was thinking along similar lines. Just to be able to buy a decent stash on the grounds of consistency would sound reasonable, but I'm not convinced they are on our side or understand the problem. I didn't want to push it on my first application, so my feo was really pleased with the buy 200 hold 400 request. Not enough now if this is going to be an issue I would appreciate the feed back on your request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1979 Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I used the last of my win subs, which where in the white box. I have tried the black box ones and yes the don't seem the same, might just be me but they don't seem to have the kill as well to atb simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So are we saying that my pristine unopened box of 500 Winchester subs (old style) have now shot up in value and are worth a small to medium fortune?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So are we saying that my pristine unopened box of 500 Winchester subs (old style) have now shot up in value and are worth a small to medium fortune?? And my 1200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hi Sugest you put buy 1000 hold 1200 gives you a chance to get unough when you've still got a few left realistic request IMO All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 So are we saying that my pristine unopened box of 500 Winchester subs (old style) have now shot up in value and are worth a small to medium fortune?? Not just your Winchesters, but all rifle rounds. I was talking to an rfd about my op this morning and the news about ammo shortages sounds pretty grim. He's based in west sussex. He had a chap in yesterday all the way from Essex for some rounds of 22-250 and some lads came specifically up from wales this morning and cleared out all of his powder :o Apparently, gamebore haven't the money to pay for any tungsten matrix and the rest of the conversation about the availability of ammo is not good news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hi Sugest you put buy 1000 hold 1200 gives you a chance to get unough when you've still got a few left realistic request IMO All the best Of It isn't working like that anymore, new FAC only have a buy limit (or was it hold) seems I'm getting old, can't remember, (someone please confirm which) mine is still old style FAC but my lads has just been renewed and is new style! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aister Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I had the same trouble, I have always used winchester subs but when they changed the box my rifle all went to pot, I thought it was knackered until I tried some other makes. I am using eley subs now, which gives thumb nail sized groups at 50 yards like the winchesters used to give me, but I hate the quantity of lube eley uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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