evo Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I was sent an email from basc called BASC Action Alert which was basically to send to my local MP to tell him about the value of shooting,it was basically an automated form which would be sent to your local MP,s you just basically just put your name in it and the automated process did the rest, I filled in the form as support and have received an email today to say the least shocked me to the response he gave me, here is the response I have received from my MP,,, Thanks for your e-mail and I apologise for the delay in replying.I appreciate that shooting industry is a major part of the economy in parts of the country and also a traditional part of rural life and is significantly involved in managing rural areas. I do have some concerns about the industry, for example I understand that: Laying hens on many farms are kept in intensive conditions, using the same type of small battery cage that has been made illegal for farmed chickens. The 40% of pheasants and 90% of partridges that are imported to the UK from France, Spain and Portugal also suffer immensely during transport. Gamekeepers snare, trap, poison and bludgeon tens of thousands of animals, including protected species and domestic pets, in an effort to protect game birds from natural predators. I would be obliged for your comments on my concerns. to say I was shocked by his reply is an understatement,,should I now let basc know of his reply as its pretty obvious to me he has a bee in his bonnet regarding shooting or should I just let him know how I feel about his reply, cheers Evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Interesting he read it and didn't send you the automated cut and past equilivant you sent him. See what basc say. Perhaps they can help him out with his observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 As above send his reply back to basc and see what their views on his comments are. Cant comment on the first 2 points but the last about the game keepers, wasnt their a story recently about some lord wanting buzzards and kites culled due to the fact they were affecting his shoot apprently. But if I remember correctly he had ties with the government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I would inform your shooting organisation, but only reply to your MP personally if you're sure of your facts regarding whatever the points are you're trying to make. You could politely thank him for his time in answering your email and ask him for his sources of information, plus verification. If he seriously wants to discuss the matter then he'll reply, if he can't verify his facts then he possibly wont. Worth a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I get the impression that the MP didn't even read the original email, because nowhere in his reply does it mention shooting. He just seems to have a dislike of certain farming and land management practices, without really really having the first idea about any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Send it straight to BASC, he is responding to their action alert mail, so they should respond on all our behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Wow! Didn't expect that response either. He/she clearly feels strongly about the management of gamebirds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Talk to BASC but I wouldn't vote for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) send it to the NGO as well! if the third point is how he/she worded it, they are implying ALL gamekeepers break the law. surely that is a case of Libel? edit: just noticed he wrote "I understand" so not stateing a fact, so not Libel! but they still need to be educated! Edited August 1, 2014 by silver pigeon69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 The problem is even if its a minority of gamekeepers or up their own **** estate managers,**** sticks and they all get tarred with the same brush.I have no interest in shooting pheasant's but would also have concerns if statement two is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I was sent an email from basc called BASC Action Alert which was basically to send to my local MP to tell him about the value of shooting,it was basically an automated form which would be sent to your local MP,s you just basically just put your name in it and the automated process did the rest, I filled in the form as support and have received an email today to say the least shocked me to the response he gave me, here is the response I have received from my MP,,, Thanks for your e-mail and I apologise for the delay in replying. I appreciate that shooting industry is a major part of the economy in parts of the country and also a traditional part of rural life and is significantly involved in managing rural areas. I do have some concerns about the industry, for example I understand that: Laying hens on many farms are kept in intensive conditions, using the same type of small battery cage that has been made illegal for farmed chickens. The 40% of pheasants and 90% of partridges that are imported to the UK from France, Spain and Portugal also suffer immensely during transport. Gamekeepers snare, trap, poison and bludgeon tens of thousands of animals, including protected species and domestic pets, in an effort to protect game birds from natural predators. I would be obliged for your comments on my concerns. to say I was shocked by his reply is an understatement,,should I now let basc know of his reply as its pretty obvious to me he has a bee in his bonnet regarding shooting or should I just let him know how I feel about his reply, cheers Evo Pass it to BASC for advice or reply first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belly47 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I also sent email from BASC to my mp and have heard nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Groups who are not considered to exist as an entity with legal personality cannot claim for defamation. Unless all gamekeepers are mandated to be registered to the British Gamekeeper Association (if such a body exists) in order to practice then they can't sue for libel. However, if there is some truth to this MP's concerns then those areas should be formally addressed by BASC as the de facto national representative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Groups who are not considered to exist as an entity with legal personality cannot claim for defamation. Unless all gamekeepers are mandated to be registered to the British Gamekeeper Association (if such a body exists) in order to practice then they can't sue for libel. However, if there is some truth to this MP's concerns then those areas should be formally addressed by BASC as the de facto national representative ah Ok, thanks for that. so if shooters started a fund to take legal action against RSPB etc when they make untrue statements,for this to work All shooters would have to be members? and it would have to be mandatory to join? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I'm not a lawyer but that's how I understand it. BASC has cause to complain on behalf of its members but not sue for defamation unless the accusation was specifically aimed at BASC members as a whole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I'm not sure about all this 'talk to BASC first' advice, you sent an email and have got an interesting and genuine response with an opportunity to answer the MPs concerns. Quite frankly this is a much better response than a stock 'thank you for your letter, I've filed it in the bin' type as it shows they are open to debate. If you are involved in pheasant rearing and know your facts then give them an honest answer, if you aren't then say what you are involved in and highlight the value of what you do do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I was sent an email from basc called BASC Action Alert which was basically to send to my local MP to tell him about the value of shooting,it was basically an automated form which would be sent to your local MP,s you just basically just put your name in it and the automated process did the rest, I filled in the form as support and have received an email today to say the least shocked me to the response he gave me, here is the response I have received from my MP,,, Thanks for your e-mail and I apologise for the delay in replying. I appreciate that shooting industry is a major part of the economy in parts of the country and also a traditional part of rural life and is significantly involved in managing rural areas. I do have some concerns about the industry, for example I understand that: Laying hens on many farms are kept in intensive conditions, using the same type of small battery cage that has been made illegal for farmed chickens. The 40% of pheasants and 90% of partridges that are imported to the UK from France, Spain and Portugal also suffer immensely during transport. Gamekeepers snare, trap, poison and bludgeon tens of thousands of animals, including protected species and domestic pets, in an effort to protect game birds from natural predators. I would be obliged for your comments on my concerns. to say I was shocked by his reply is an understatement,,should I now let basc know of his reply as its pretty obvious to me he has a bee in his bonnet regarding shooting or should I just let him know how I feel about his reply, cheers Evo Has he been reading this by any chance? http://www.league.org.uk/our-campaigns/shooting/whats-wrong-with-shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Has he been reading this by any chance? http://www.league.org.uk/our-campaigns/shooting/whats-wrong-with-shooting I think you (OP) should write back correcting the man and asking if this is indeed his source. I think you have a good opportunity to give him not only an alternative viewpoint but an education. That web page provides NO EVIDENCE to back up its emotive claims. It's hyperbole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Also look at bullet point 4 and see what may have landed before your (OP) letter... http://www.league.org.uk/our-campaigns/shooting/what-is-the-league-doing-about-game-shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckman91 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Has he been reading this by any chance? http://www.league.org.uk/our-campaigns/shooting/whats-wrong-with-shooting pretty sure the MP like most of us can find some carp website online and copy and paste from it. he clearly does not have the first clue about shooting. I would reply and also cc in basc as this was a response to their letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 pretty sure the MP like most of us can find some carp website online and copy and paste from it. he clearly does not have the first clue about shooting. I would reply and also cc in basc as this was a response to their letter. On the positive side, he was motivated to respond, many don't. This is now an opportunity to try and persuade him to our way of thinking and straightening out the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I've had many a lengthy debate with LACS about most of their points on their website over the years. They make many claims which don't fare well when closely scrutinised, and asking for indisputable facts and sources of info' are often met with open hostility and eventually censorship, but it's still worth the effort. They especially don't like it when their own particular failings are pointed out and their reluctance for them to become common knowledge (Landsdown (?) springs to mind) is mentioned. However, I am always amazed at just how vociferous and effective at getting their voice heard they are, for such a small organisation. Personally, in view of your MP's response now being known to be almost verbatim the LACS webpage, I would write asking if he/she had any views based on personal experience or factual knowledge other than something he/she has gleaned from an organisation with a clear and biased agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I'm a plus one for replying direct to the MP and ask him for his sources and EVIDENCE for his claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckman91 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I'm a plus one for replying direct to the MP and ask him for his sources and EVIDENCE for his claims. yes. other than an ill informed website he happened to have read. yes i agree malkiserow at least he did reply but he sure needs educating on the subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 This is a classic politician’s ploy, reply to a question with another question so instead of you giving him something to do he has given you lots to do!! While he sits back ready to reply in the same fashion once again!! By all means make BASC aware of the tactic, ‘forewarned is for-armed’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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