if you were me

[Old farrier]

have you though about bespoke cartridges to the rich (can you have empty's made with a name on !!!!! )

 

Other than that maybe start at a local clay ground taking orders to be delivered on the day and progress to a few and go from there , or even find local Pheasant shoots and try to organize group buys with them ?

Rich and famous 😀

How about

 

Magmans mammoth magnums 😗

 

And

 

Magmans mini magnums

For the lad 😀😀😀

 

Beardos bangers 😀

 

And to include myself

Old farriers

Anvil blasters 😗

 

Just a few to think about

Anymore before this ends up in the playpen

 

All the best

Of

😃😃😃😃

[Guest stevo]

George ...

 

stop messing about with gun shops , get your website up to date , showing a full range of your product and what you can offer , let Joe public order what they want , and you charge a delivery fee and send it to the end user via courier , Job done , the way forward , I and am sure lots of other would buy from you that way , but for me I just cant be assed doing a 80 mile round trip to coppins , ( as much as I love a good chin wag with john ) its just a PAIN ! I want to be able to just go on a website , order my carts and there at my house within 3 days , JOB DONE

from your point of view , its cheaper , as customer is paying delivery , its less hassle ,

[Beretta28g]

In reply 32g 5s

[rimmie]

Get hold of the shooting press, try Andy crow from fields sports Britain, Geoff garrod on the shooting show, as well as sporting gun magazine and sporting shooter (Richard Bingham/Pete theobold) give out some slabs to this lot and watch the orders come in. Think how many 1000's of people watch/read these, just a thought.

[corkycorksta]

where r u in dorset coming at the week end hopefully please pm me

PM sent - forgot to check they will be 70mm George ??

[corkycorksta]

George ...

 

stop messing about with gun shops , get your website up to date , showing a full range of your product and what you can offer , let Joe public order what they want , and you charge a delivery fee and send it to the end user via courier , Job done , the way forward , I and am sure lots of other would buy from you that way , but for me I just cant be assed doing a 80 mile round trip to coppins , ( as much as I love a good chin wag with john ) its just a PAIN ! I want to be able to just go on a website , order my carts and there at my house within 3 days , JOB DONE

from your point of view , its cheaper , as customer is paying delivery , its less hassle ,

What he said +++

 

Many of us "southerners" like the internet. It's a shame in many ways and it's why high streets and local shops find it so hard, but it's reality. Why don't you ask on here if anyone does web design. I bet they do and a few "samples" will no doubt help the cause. I know a guy down here that does good work for websites but he knows nothing about shooting. I'm sure a PW member with the same skills is out there and will do a bespoke job for you.

 

CC

[SPARKIE]

I would be sponsoring PC, and Andy Crow with cartridges if it were me Then by arrangement with PC/Crow, get articles into magazines. Repeated bags of over the ton look good from a marketing point of view. That will help capture the audience, then make it easy for them to find and buy from you. Exciting web site, favourable delivery options etc.

Just my views

think crow man maybe sponsered by gamebore as im sure he allways shoots gamebore's on fieldsports channel

 

 

This is exactly where I think George could find his niche in the market, a shell that could cleanly kill pigeons and pheasants at a good range and would also break clays in competition where 28 grammes is the limit.

i know of quite a few people including myself that have been using 28 gr 7.5 clay carts on pigeons for last couple of years due to cost of game/pigeon carts....and they kill just as well.....lyvale english sporter 7.5 smashes pigeons...and there £159 a thousand.

 

look chaps play right and left on the r is a case on the left is a case no difference then a wad no diference powder to push 28 gram then for 32 maybe a fiver a thousand so lead at about say 1800 a ton equals £1.80 a gram so diference is 4 grams x 1.80 equals 7.20 in lead so take the fiver for the powder and 7.20 for the lead that's 12.20 plus vat so how in the creation of hens back teeth do we arrive at say 160 for a 28 gram cheapy and 260 plus for some of the 32 gram on the market now can any body tell me that so this is how I arrive at mine at 189

should that not be £1.80 a kg of lead?

[propercartridges]

In reply 32g 5s

hi beretta I would say that you have been drasticly over charged they should not be 280 per thousand go back and complain or ask if they have made a mistake I cant do nothing from here but thanks for letting me know cheers george

[colin lad]

What he said +++

Many of us "southerners" like the internet. It's a shame in many ways and it's why high streets and local shops find it so hard, but it's reality. Why don't you ask on here if anyone does web design. I bet they do and a few "samples" will no doubt help the cause. I know a guy down here that does good work for websites but he knows nothing about shooting. I'm sure a PW member with the same skills is out there and will do a bespoke job for you.

CC

my wife is just starting out in web design and looking to do some sites to build her portfolio i am sure i could talk into doing a site for a few sample cartridges

 

Colin

[Lord Geordie]

Hawkeye's got the same idea as myself!

 

Clay grounds I go to offer MORE than just clay rounds! They normally stock a few game carts too. May be worth finding a couple who do this! When customers come back, asking for propper cartridges, They will then make enquiries with local suppliers!

 

Just for the record! I know of a LOT of people who talk about propper cartridges for game! Infact, the shoot I beat for in Northumberland use then regularly, and rate them too. Also a Friend of mine has been on about them too for quite some time! So your end users are already happy with the product!

[scobydog]

Is it worth trying wholesales suppliers like Edgar bros, I think they only do rifle cartridges at the moment (I could be wrong) but they would push them if enough in it for them, All the best and good luck with it,

 

 

 

Scobydog

[ChrisAsh]

My suggestion would be to open your own web site store just like JC's where you can make more money by being your own middle man.

 

Attack the easy targets like no 7.5 x 20 bore, in steel and lead, same with 28 gauge and 410 gauge where you have much larger profit margin and get people using your cartridges

 

Clay with fibre cups is a obvious one to corner that market just 7.5 at 28 or 24 gram

 

I understand your game policy but feel your chasing the wrong market, you will spend a fortune shipping around the UK at great cost to RFD's etc where as individuals will pay for the shipment say £10-15 like the other company, you have complete control of the stock so can plan ahead easily

 

Many people love the smaller bore guns but put off by the price in the states the 4 bore skeet is a very big market that could be the same here if prices were right

 

Clays a box in say 20 min at skeet, Game a box a day maybe or even a weekend

[ColinF]

look chaps play right and left on the r is a case on the left is a case no difference then a wad no diference powder to push 28 gram then for 32 maybe a fiver a thousand so lead at about say 1800 a ton equals £1.80 a gram so diference is 4 grams x 1.80 equals 7.20 in lead so take the fiver for the powder and 7.20 for the lead that's 12.20 plus vat so how in the creation of hens back teeth do we arrive at say 160 for a 28 gram cheapy and 260 plus for some of the 32 gram on the market now can any body tell me that so this is how I arrive at mine at 189

 

Your price of £189 is direct from the manufacturer, but the £260 price is from a retailer, who had to pay carriage from the factory, and will also be making a profit.

 

The £260 cartridges will probably be from one of the large manufacturers, who will have overheads that you don't have like staff to make the cartridges, sales people, R&D people, marketing people, advertising, sponsorship, etc etc. They will also probably have prettier cases and packaging which doesn't improve the cartridges but helps with sales and costs more money. As you have said, there is no money in the budget clay cartridges and the big players will see these as a loss leader, and therefore have to recover all the other expenses from the more expensive game loads.

 

Gun shops won't stock your cartridges if you are under cutting them by selling direct to the end user, they need to make a profit to stay in business. I think the problem with selling direct will be generating a high enough volume of sales, but that will depend on how many cartridges you need to sell each year to stay in business and make a living at it?

[fenboy]

 

Your price of £189 is direct from the manufacturer, but the £260 price is from a retailer, who had to pay carriage from the factory, and will also be making a profit.

 

The £260 cartridges will probably be from one of the large manufacturers, who will have overheads that you don't have like staff to make the cartridges, sales people, R&D people, marketing people, advertising, sponsorship, etc etc. They will also probably have prettier cases and packaging which doesn't improve the cartridges but helps with sales and costs more money. As you have said, there is no money in the budget clay cartridges and the big players will see these as a loss leader, and therefore have to recover all the other expenses from the more expensive game loads.

 

Gun shops won't stock your cartridges if you are under cutting them by selling direct to the end user, they need to make a profit to stay in business. I think the problem with selling direct will be generating a high enough volume of sales, but that will depend on how many cartridges you need to sell each year to stay in business and make a living at it?

 

This is exactly what my local retailer told me today , I think you need to decide just what route to take .

I think you would perhaps be better to go internet sales sell cheap and charge delivery at cost

 

This will work better if you have a full range of clay and game loads .

[propercartridges]

well thanks to you all for your input clearly I have a bit more to do including going on to clay shells it takes time to get the relevant bits and pieces in especially in august when Italy is closed down for the holidays so I will go quiet now as I have a good bit running around to do so if I don't answer chaps it is not out of ignorance or avoiding you so honestly thanks for helping me to get the name out there all I can say is watch for a very special announcement which will be very beneficial to all home loaders thank you george

[figgy]

Let me know when your going to start on your clay loads George.

 

Figgy

[rimmie]

Are you in kent in the next couple of weeks ? I want to try some 30g 6's but after loosing my job and not working for a couple of months,I'm skint !!

 

I do however start a new job in the next couple of weeks, so will have some money coming in.

Edited August 6, 2014 by rimmie

[kingo15]

Cant wait to see the clay load prices

[figgy]

Kingo 15 they will be same as the game loads bar a couple of quid less as less lead in them.

 

Looking forward to trying what George comes up with.

 

Figgy

Edited August 6, 2014 by figgy

[dougall]

I have been following 'Proper cartridges' and the various threads for a month or so.

My imput with business hat on is this;

1.Are you sure what your target wants?

2.this is 2014 and your website is killing you.

3.You need a business/marketing bod whilst you concentrate on manufacture..and get quality control spot on as 1 bad shell in your game gets remembered.

As a shooter I would happily try and support a new English cartridge maker from the start and would love you to do well.I would think I am a typical shooter; I shoot @2000 clay shells a year(must be fibre)28g 7.5s,2000 pigeon shells 28-30g and say 500 at driven stuff 32g 5s.I do not know the stats but I would think clay shells are biggest market/pigeon rough next(budget conscious) then driven(premium shells).

I recommend to you then 1)a clay load 12g 28gram 7.5 covers most 2)a pigeon/rough shoot shell I suggest 29-30g no6 and 3)a 32g 5 which some may use for rough/pigeon/game etc. For me it must be fibre. For you a clear strategy of just 3 shells is the place to start,don't try and be all things to all men keep it simple 3 clear products/caters for most and then customers can decide if they want to try them.

If you cant sort your own website go take some shells to Charlie Bull and get on his site,even if the margin is tiny your name awareness will go through the roof.

I mean all of this as constructive, would love to see you succeed but stop waffling on here get a clear no frills prodect line and go and sell it!!All the very best to you.

[Blunderbust]

I have been following 'Proper cartridges' and the various threads for a month or so.

My imput with business hat on is this;

1.Are you sure what your target wants?

2.this is 2014 and your website is killing you.

3.You need a business/marketing bod whilst you concentrate on manufacture..and get quality control spot on as 1 bad shell in your game gets remembered.

As a shooter I would happily try and support a new English cartridge maker from the start and would love you to do well.I would think I am a typical shooter; I shoot @2000 clay shells a year(must be fibre)28g 7.5s,2000 pigeon shells 28-30g and say 500 at driven stuff 32g 5s.I do not know the stats but I would think clay shells are biggest market/pigeon rough next(budget conscious) then driven(premium shells).

I recommend to you then 1)a clay load 12g 28gram 7.5 covers most 2)a pigeon/rough shoot shell I suggest 29-30g no6 and 3)a 32g 5 which some may use for rough/pigeon/game etc. For me it must be fibre. For you a clear strategy of just 3 shells is the place to start,don't try and be all things to all men keep it simple 3 clear products/caters for most and then customers can decide if they want to try them.

If you cant sort your own website go take some shells to Charlie Bull and get on his site,even if the margin is tiny your name awareness will go through the roof.

I mean all of this as constructive, would love to see you succeed but stop waffling on here get a clear no frills prodect line and go and sell it!!All the very best to you.

 

Great advice, if I were you, I would do exactly what Dougall advises above .

[Guest cookoff013]

I have been following 'Proper cartridges' and the various threads for a month or so.

My imput with business hat on is this;

1.Are you sure what your target wants?

2.this is 2014 and your website is killing you.

3.You need a business/marketing bod whilst you concentrate on manufacture..and get quality control spot on as 1 bad shell in your game gets remembered.

As a shooter I would happily try and support a new English cartridge maker from the start and would love you to do well.I would think I am a typical shooter; I shoot @2000 clay shells a year(must be fibre)28g 7.5s,2000 pigeon shells 28-30g and say 500 at driven stuff 32g 5s.I do not know the stats but I would think clay shells are biggest market/pigeon rough next(budget conscious) then driven(premium shells).

I recommend to you then 1)a clay load 12g 28gram 7.5 covers most 2)a pigeon/rough shoot shell I suggest 29-30g no6 and 3)a 32g 5 which some may use for rough/pigeon/game etc. For me it must be fibre. For you a clear strategy of just 3 shells is the place to start,don't try and be all things to all men keep it simple 3 clear products/caters for most and then customers can decide if they want to try them.

If you cant sort your own website go take some shells to Charlie Bull and get on his site,even if the margin is tiny your name awareness will go through the roof.

I mean all of this as constructive, would love to see you succeed but stop waffling on here get a clear no frills prodect line and go and sell it!!All the very best to you.

 

these 2 loads overlap so much there is very little achieved by having products overlap. you dont want to end up reloading the same shells for different products that dilutes the product brand. lyvale ended up having multiple sub branded products that didnt do them any good, english sporters,danarms, HV range,dj, powder blues etc.. they virtually are the same shell, budget clay shells. in all shotsizes...

 

so the market is cheap clay shells? maybe a decent 28 gram 7 would be good, but that would be competing with his 32g loads... why would he compete with his own game range?

 

its laws of economics here. there is very little difference in making a 32g load to a 1oz load.

only when performance driven better powders are used.

 

at this rate you may as well change to the "fibre cartridge co."

[Dangerous Brian]

As already mentioned I would look at the "other" bores. Anyone wanting .410 in fibre wad is pretty well stuck with Eley. 14g of 8's or 9's in a 65mm .410 case with fibre- that would be a lot of fun on a skeet layout. Also,local supply of 28g size 5-8 fibre in 20 gauge can best be described as patchy unless you roll your own and I can't imagine the choice in 28 gauge is any better. When you can get the type of shells you want the price can be silly money. I assume the manufacturers would rather not have the fuss of changing over to do a run of other gauges so keep the price up to reflect that.

 

Whilst I think about it how about a 20 bore steel shell with fibre cup? Not sure if it could be done but that would be excellent for the small local shoots who put on a duck drive.

 

All the best with your venture.

[dougall]

 

these 2 loads overlap so much there is very little achieved by having products overlap. you dont want to end up reloading the same shells for different products that dilutes the product brand. lyvale ended up having multiple sub branded products that didnt do them any good, english sporters,danarms, HV range,dj, powder blues etc.. they virtually are the same shell, budget clay shells. in all shotsizes...

 

so the market is cheap clay shells? maybe a decent 28 gram 7 would be good, but that would be competing with his 32g loads... why would he compete with his own game range?

 

its laws of economics here. there is very little difference in making a 32g load to a 1oz load.

only when performance driven better powders are used.

 

at this rate you may as well change to the "fibre cartridge co."

I was trying to give constructive advice to the OP from the context of what I actually BUY;.how a 28g 7 overlaps with 32g 5 is beyond me..as someone who usually answers ''I roll my own'' I am not sure you are his target market..

[Guest cookoff013]

the 28g#7 and the 30g #6 overlap.

both are light game shells.

 

i make my own and i buy shells. its no secret. but i still dont see the logic in making a product thats going to compete with his other products.

 

there is very little difference between 28grams and 32grams really.maybe a little bit of lead. most powders were designed to run 32g lead in 12gauge anyway, so it may actually be more economical to load 32g !

 

if he makes a 1oz fibre #7, his 32g loads will suffer primarily his #6 game loads.

people already have the choice of shooting 7.5 fibre at stuff. and people are. how many threads do we have 7.5 vs 6?

 

fine 1oz 7s will be sold, but if they are competatively priced thats going to hit his other shells sales for sure. and the other shells in the market.

 

say they become £150/k, pigeon loads are hulls spec pigeon...£250. thats a big discrepency.