Gun Misfire

[OJW]

Hi there,

 

Yesterday at the clay range I had a gun problem, at least I think it was the gun but am now wondering if perhaps it was the cartridge?

 

This happened on the first two shots of the day. Fired on the first clay, squeezed trigger on the second and nothing happened. Kept gun up and waited, but nothing, then as I was bringing it out the shoulder, sliding safety on and had my thumb on the break lever it went off. Still pointed in a safe direction of course.

 

Its important to stress that I kept to safety procedures and at no point was anyone, myself included at any risk. I put the gun away and called the gunsmith as the guns still under warranty, they've agreed to have a look at it.

 

I'm now wondering if it could've been a dud cartridge rather than the gun? I assumed it wasn't as the length of the delay was significantly long and in the past the only misfires I've ever experience are when the gun pings the cart and the cart doesn't go off but has a mark on it where the pin struck. I didn't use the gun again after that so didn't put any other carts through it.

 

I'll get it checked anyway, but wondered if anyone has experienced this before and if its likely to be the gun or the cart?

 

Needless to say I've lost some confidence in the gun which is a shame because I've had it less than a year and I've spent money on it having it altered.

[henry931]

Did you hear the pin drop on the second cartridge?

[fenboy]

I would say its more likely to be the cartridge.

At least you did not put anyone in danger , I have seen people on a clay shoot chuck miss fires into the undergrowth within , what could happen with a long delay like you experienced.

[JohnfromUK]

I suspect it was the gun; it is possible to have a hang fire - where the cartridge does go off after a long delay, but very rare indeed.

 

More likely that the trigger had almost (but not quite) moved the sear enough to clear the bent, and the fractional extra movement as the safety catch was applied (which bolts the trigger) was enough to complete the release. It is also possible that the trigger/sear is fouling on the woodwork - leaving it with limited movement leading to the above. I have known swollen wood cause problems after a newish gun got very wet for the first time - though in my case the tumbler was rubbing on the swollen wood (sidelock gun) and giving a light strike - and hence a misfire.

 

Whatever the cause - gunsmith time.

[Gunman]

It is almost impossible to say with any degree of certainty without more detail and an examination of the gun. Yes it could be a cartridge problem or a striker or the trigger mechanism . Take it to a gunsmith with the fired cartridge and the rest of the box you were using so as he can check the gun with the ones you were using at the time

. As you do not give info as to the gun I would not speculate as to any other possible causes .

[Paul223]

What's the chances of having a hang fire

 

What's the chances of having two hang fires in the same barrel one after the other !

 

Your gunsmith will sort it no problem

[ditchman]

get a small straight edge and lay it on the base of the cartridge and see what depth the primer is.........i have had a bad batch before now where the primers were seated too deep and thus the pin was not being effective enough to crush the primer and its contents..............another problem i have heard about is on a new gun the gunk is not removed prior to sale ie: it is not PDI'd....and the mechanism can be a bit sticky

[fenboy]

What's the chances of having a hang fire

 

What's the chances of having two hang fires in the same barrel one after the other !

 

Your gunsmith will sort it no problem

 

I read it that the hang fire happened during his first two shots of the day , not that he had two hang fires one after another , if that is the case then I would agree its more likely to be the gun rather than the cartridge.

[STOTTO]

During a lifetime of shooting tens of thousands of rounds I have personally only experienced two myself, one in a rifle, delay approx. ten seconds and one in a shotgun delay approx. seven seconds both occurred whilst carrying out the recommended drill for such an event so no harm done. I have also witnessed two hang-fires one in a pistol and one in a shotgun again correct drill ‘one under orders’, applied no harm done. So although in my experience very rare hang-fires do most certainly happen so always follow the recommended procedure and all should be well. On my hang-fires and the ones that I witnessed the primers had been well struck so it always pays to check this.

[OJW]

Thanks everyone.

 

 

Did you hear the pin drop on the second cartridge?

No sorry I was wearing hearing protection though.

 

 

I read it that the hang fire happened during his first two shots of the day , not that he had two hang fires one after another , if that is the case then I would agree its more likely to be the gun rather than the cartridge.

Fenboys correct. It was during the first (and only) two shots of the day. First barrel fired no problem, second barrel/shot was where the problem occurred.

 

 

 

I stupidly didn't keep the cartridges, my mind was on the safety procedure and informing those with me I had had a misfire but all was well. The cart was taken out of a cart bag containing aprox 4 boxes so I can't take the exact carts to the gunsmith unfortunately.

[welshwarrior]

Take him the whole bag if they are from a batch make a note of the batch number the makers may be interested.

 

It could have been a hang fire cartridge or an action problem with out see the gun it's impossible to guess

[GingerCat]

If it was the same barrel I'm going for a trigger problem. If it was not the same barrel then maybe a cart issue but rare to have two in the same year let alone consecutive shots.

[fenboy]

If it was the same barrel I'm going for a trigger problem. If it was not the same barrel then maybe a cart issue but rare to have two in the same year let alone consecutive shots.

 

He did not have two in consecuative shots just the one.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I suspect it was the gun; it is possible to have a hang fire - where the cartridge does go off after a long delay, but very rare indeed.

 

More likely that the trigger had almost (but not quite) moved the sear enough to clear the bent, and the fractional extra movement as the safety catch was applied (which bolts the trigger) was enough to complete the release. It is also possible that the trigger/sear is fouling on the woodwork - leaving it with limited movement leading to the above. I have known swollen wood cause problems after a newish gun got very wet for the first time - though in my case the tumbler was rubbing on the swollen wood (sidelock gun) and giving a light strike - and hence a misfire.

 

Whatever the cause - gunsmith time.

 

It is almost impossible to say with any degree of certainty without more detail and an examination of the gun. Yes it could be a cartridge problem or a striker or the trigger mechanism . Take it to a gunsmith with the fired cartridge and the rest of the box you were using so as he can check the gun with the ones you were using at the time

. As you do not give info as to the gun I would not speculate as to any other possible causes .

 

 

Some good advice already in this thread and well done to the OP for dealing well with a difficult situation.

 

Good to see the weapon is under warranty and will be going to back to the gunsmith

 

Years ago I was taught that HANGFIRES happen and although VERY RARE, it was wise to allow 30 seconds before opening the gun.

 

OJW, keep us informed of what the Gunsmith reports.

 

Good luck

[figgy]

Wonder if he can tell us if it was the same barrel that failed to fire straight off.

 

Figgy

[Hamster]

I suspect it was the gun; it is possible to have a hang fire - where the cartridge does go off after a long delay, but very rare indeed.

 

More likely that the trigger had almost (but not quite) moved the sear enough to clear the bent, and the fractional extra movement as the safety catch was applied (which bolts the trigger) was enough to complete the release. It is also possible that the trigger/sear is fouling on the woodwork - leaving it with limited movement leading to the above. I have known swollen wood cause problems after a newish gun got very wet for the first time - though in my case the tumbler was rubbing on the swollen wood (sidelock gun) and giving a light strike - and hence a misfire.

 

Whatever the cause - gunsmith time.

 

You can't know exactly what caused it until the fault is diagnosed as tiny difference in recalling what actually happened can make a huge difference and under those circumstances it isn't always possible to remember everything, for example I have known scores of people cause the so called misfire / hang fire by not letting go of the trigger sufficiently to allow a complete recock, they think they pulled the trigger a second time but forget the fact that they had the trigger pulled all the time !

 

On balance of probability John fromUK is on the money, it could be the shell but highly improbable.

[casts_by_fly]

 

You can't know exactly what caused it until the fault is diagnosed as tiny difference in recalling what actually happened can make a huge difference and under those circumstances it isn't always possible to remember everything, for example I have known scores of people cause the so called misfire / hang fire by not letting go of the trigger sufficiently to allow a complete recock, they think they pulled the trigger a second time but forget the fact that they had the trigger pulled all the time !

 

On balance of probability John fromUK is on the money, it could be the shell but highly improbable.

 

I would think that if it was because of an incomplete relax on the trigger, then it wouldn't have gone off when the safety was switched. In my experience with my guns if you don't let off the trigger then the mechanism doesn't reset itself and progress to the next barrel and the sears can't start to move until the mechanism moves to the next barrel. His mechanism may be different.

 

 

I suspect it was the gun; it is possible to have a hang fire - where the cartridge does go off after a long delay, but very rare indeed.

 

More likely that the trigger had almost (but not quite) moved the sear enough to clear the bent, and the fractional extra movement as the safety catch was applied (which bolts the trigger) was enough to complete the release. It is also possible that the trigger/sear is fouling on the woodwork - leaving it with limited movement leading to the above. I have known swollen wood cause problems after a newish gun got very wet for the first time - though in my case the tumbler was rubbing on the swollen wood (sidelock gun) and giving a light strike - and hence a misfire.

 

Whatever the cause - gunsmith time.

 

This is more or less my conclusion too, though I'd do some more testing myself before I popped in to the gunsmith. I'd take it out to a field and see if I could fire 2 shots with a clear pause in between them. I'd also try shooting the 'second' barrel first if it is a single selective trigger.

 

I'd try a different brand/batch of cartridges just to be sure. I have a couple boxes which I think may be suspect. I've had a few fail to fires in my semi with them. I'm not sure if it is light strikes from the gun, deep primers, or storage conditions of the cartridges (I bought them second hand). Either way, shooting them a second time works so I am pretty certain they will be fine in my O/U. Bad cartridges can happen so it is worth checking and understanding, but that doesn't sound the case here.

 

thanks,

rick