deershooter Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 They shouldn't have. speaking to someone that worked in the control room who said that they where only to give info that was requested and that the police needed a good reason for requesting info. so if they were stopping a car they could ask for the owners name address and if it is insured, mot'd etc not if the owner has a FAC As soon as a name comes up on PNC if that person is a shotgun or firarms holder that information is live on screen for the controler to see and inform the officer Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 As soon as a name comes up on PNC if that person is a shotgun or firarms holder that information is live on screen for the controler to see and inform the officer Deershooter Thats what i thought (but was told different) as both my son and my self have been both been stopped at silly o'clock and the cops pulled up a long behind and asked us the get out of our cars before they came up to us Think both times were just around the time some nut case was taking pot shots at the police so understandable really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 The law is that, if you dont have a cert with you, your guns CAN be taken until you produce the cert. This was enacted before PNC and mobiles/proper comms. So, the law still stands and can be used but if your gun is taken and you have to collect it, it would be interesting to see if you could claim expenses as there really was no NEED to remove guns with modern communications. You wouldnt win, since the police have the existing law to fall back on. However put yourself in their place, they stop you and the computer doesnt have that gun registered to you (cert or no cert) if you have a cert with you, they are likely to be aware that their data is at fault if no cert, I'd run you in. They have to have a failsafe as there are illegal guns in circulation, its no problem to carry the cert and it makes you a HELPFUL, law abiding shooter. Helpful = reasonable treatment. It was always thus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misser Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 have to admit I don't carry my sgc with me; with this in mind would they accept a photocopy if I left one in the car........then i suppose theres the scenario that the car gets nicked and some toe rags know you have guns...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 My certs live in the glovebox of my car. Can't ever forget them that way. Don't forget the flip side " you are responsible for the safe keeping of this certificate". Also car gets pinched and they have your address ID and a list of goodies likely stored there. I have been pulled for a search and it was the PNC check and full list of firearms held that stopped the process in its tracks. No guns present and I was two counties away from home, had my photo ID driving card as did my passenger another certificate holder. The officer was frankly a **** and his reason for the pull? I was driving a 4x4 with mud on it (in broad daylight in mid summer) he thought we might be poachers! But it was a posh bit of Cheshire and he was perhaps more used to black Rangerovers (sans mud) with low profile tyres and certainly no muck, two wildfowlers after a work party perhaps phased him. Apparently a car with a Manchester plate is a sure thing for them guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I carry a copy of my certs as a PDF document on my smartphone so I can at least show I have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I too have pdf's on my phone, when an idiot crashed into me on the M62 last year the first thing the arriving officer said to me was have you any firearms with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I no longer do 5ams,but if did would have licence on me..I think,and hindsight is a wonderful thing,I would also have volunteered that I had a firearm in the car as it no doubt dawned on them what you were doing at that time of day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 My question to the officer would be if he had a fac, if not then I would be commiting an offence letting him even touch my rifle. I would also ask him if there was a problem with his radio stopping him checking my credentials ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Thing is, you can understand why police get all uppety around guns. Fairly dangerous in the wrong hands - and police always assume you are up to no good until proved otherwise. If I was a policeman and someone said they had guns in the car, I'd be a little weary until checked out. Seeing a nice flashy licence with the big cheese's signature on the bottom would make me feel much better. I take mine in a leather wallet, kept in a bag, kept with my car doc's in the glove box of my shooting car. That way, if out and about and police collar me, I can walk them back to the car to see licence or if pulled they can see it too. Regardless of legalities, keeping it with you SAVES AGRO and gets you on your way faster. My question to the officer would be if he had a fac, if not then I would be commiting an offence letting him even touch my rifle. I would also ask him if there was a problem with his radio stopping him checking my credentials ... Apparently they can seize guns without a FAC. Part of being a policeman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Keep mine in certificate wallet in pocket of gun slip - so always with my gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) It would be a good idea if there was, as with a drivers licence, a licence photo id card and paper counterpart. Produce the card on request with a follow up with the counterpart at the station within 24 hours if required. Edited August 27, 2014 by Greymaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I can see an over night stay in the cells in the future for a few people on this thread #idon'thavetocarrymeticket #wheresyourcertificatecopper #attitudetest I really don't see the issue with carrying your original FAC. If you're prone to losing things just put it in something that you're not likely to lose, like your jacket, gun slip, hide bag etc etc. If you're worried about it getting wet buy a 10p ziplock bag As i've had a gun taken by the police in the past* which got knocked around a bit and i travel all over the country shooting comps i always have my original with me as if the gun(s) get confiscated they're taken to the local police HQ where you're pulled and you have to go back for them once you have your certificate to hand, not much fun if you're 300 miles from home *not for this issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 My question to the officer would be if he had a fac, if not then I would be commiting an offence letting him even touch my rifle. I would also ask him if there was a problem with his radio stopping him checking my credentials ... They don't need one whilst in the course of their duty they can do most anything in fact and they can confiscate until you show up with a valid FAC. It might be better to be polite at least initially as you could well find yourself face down in the dirt with your hands in cuffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 My certificates are always in my car and a copy of my sgc is in my gun slip. so at worst i only have a walk back to the car and a copper to carry my gun for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 My question to the officer would be if he had a fac, if not then I would be commiting an offence letting him even touch my rifle. I would also ask him if there was a problem with his radio stopping him checking my credentials ... this should be headed what not to do......rather provocative and a tad aggressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well my feo told me that a regular non fac officer can't just handle your firearm, admitedly he may of been saying so assuming they just wanted to 'have a look' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 A police officer in uniform has the right to stop and search anyone with reasonable justification. In uniform he does not have to have an FAC to handle your guns - he's an officer of the law. FeO's arent all policemen (often retired) they are known for not being always up to date on firearms legislation. Community police officers dont have all police powers. Ask for their warrant card and give them your cert - fair exchange. Some police are a pain but they are the law, comply and complain later if they overstep the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I guess the grey area with thsi sort of topic is: What happens if your license is in for variation/renewal? Since you can still legally carry your guns but you might get them confiscated if the police pull you over. I wonder if the excuse on being asked for your license: well it's actually with your firearms department! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Don't forget the flip side " you are responsible for the safe keeping of this certificate". Also car gets pinched and they have your address ID and a list of goodies likely stored there. By that point they have stolen my car.... I can see no wording that I am responsible for the safekeeping of the certificate itself. Where are you getting that from? I have to inform the police within 7 days if my certificate is lost stolen or destroyed. Have you ever lost a FAC? (I mean miss placed). My wife did. She was quite nervous and rang up - all they want is a cheque and a brief covering letter and new cert arrives in the post. They ask if the old cert turns up for you to return them. They really didn't seem to care about the loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I was told that if you've a Gun with you then you should have your ticket with you too, just saves time and hassle For you AND the copper - was also told if stopped and officer asks to see gun, say "I'm not legally allowed to draw it from it's slip here in public; details are on sgc/fac, if you want to confirm, I can come to Station or you can come to mine, but I can't get Gun out on roadside" Otherwise, if officer asks to see weapon and You do show them by roadside, you're committing an offence and are nickable. Don't know the veracity of this, but better safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 "I'm not legally allowed to draw it from it's slip here in public; details are on sgc/fac, if you want to confirm, I can come to Station or you can come to mine, but I can't get Gun out on roadside" I don't mean to appear rude, but where did you hear this? You can walk down the street with a gun broken over your arm. The law requires you to have a lawful excuse. Doesn't matter if loaded or covered etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygreengrass Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 We got stopped by some armed police early one morning going on a goose shoot all had original certificates with us all they done was open the gun cases in the car to check we had the guns on our certificates and give me the driver a search notice(which they have to give you). But have been stopped at leased four times out lamping with a FAC and a copy of my certificate as always been ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypig Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) Well my feo told me that a regular non fac officer can't just handle your firearm, admitedly he may of been saying so assuming they just wanted to 'have a look'Your FEO is talking out of his bottom. Your force may have a policy of firearms being cleared by a firearms officer. This may be at the point of seizure at a crime scene, or in the property office as a point of admin. Insisting on a firearms officer would not go down well. There are some pretty horrendous myths being posted here which reveals a surprising lack of knowledge by some who profess to hold sgc/fac. Makes me think some form of compulsory training might be required. Edited August 27, 2014 by happypig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rst1990 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I guess the grey area with thsi sort of topic is: What happens if your license is in for variation/renewal? Since you can still legally carry your guns but you might get them confiscated if the police pull you over. I wonder if the excuse on being asked for your license: well it's actually with your firearms department! So what happens in that situation? Shorely just a pnc will do like what happened to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.