Beretta06 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I shot today at Kings Walk in West Sussex on a mixed gun line - a couple of single guns and a group of friends. I was amazed at how low people were shooting pheasants - several under 20 yards. Over an 'elevensies' drink, I made a comment about giving the birds a chance and, with the exception of the gamekeeper, no one else thought the birds were unacceptably low. So, how low IS too low for you?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Odd that the keeper himself thought they were too low seeing as it's his responsibility to present them. Personally hate seeing anything smashed and from what you describe plenty would have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 There were plenty of birds at 30yrds +. However, my fellow guns seemed to take the easy ones and incapable of hitting a well presented target. Keeper did a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 There were plenty of birds at 30yrds +. However, my fellow guns seemed to take the easy ones and incapable of hitting a well presented target. Keeper did a good job. Nail on head , sometimes the keeper has to think of the bank balance no good putting 40+ yard birds over a group that can't shoot for **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruity Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Nail on head , sometimes the keeper has to think of the bank balance no good putting 40+ yard birds over a group that can't shoot for **** We had a similar thing back end of last week, 70% of the guns couldnt hit any high birds Hundreds of thousands worth of vehicles and guns there but hardly any could shoot Edited November 8, 2014 by fruity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 One of my main reasons for virtually giving up Game shooting and doing more clays. Sickened by the behaviour of some so called Sportsmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I shot today at Kings Walk in West Sussex on a mixed gun line - a couple of single guns and a group of friends. I was amazed at how low people were shooting pheasants - several under 20 yards. Over an 'elevensies' drink, I made a comment about giving the birds a chance and, with the exception of the gamekeeper, no one else thought the birds were unacceptably low. So, how low IS too low for you?? Always nice to shoot your neighbors birds before they lift there gun on days like that just saying like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Were they better off shooting within their capability rather than pricking lots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hifly Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 As a full time keeper I would have told the boss to inform the guns at the start of the day to leave low birds for later in the season when they would of lernt to fly better, but then again most of the time guns tend to be in a world of there own, one very good cure for low shooting is to present badly shot up birds to the gun or guns at the end of the day who persist on shooting low pheasants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 used to a decent amount of picking up and as said plenty of money spent looking the part none on lessons, embarrassed to keep missing so shoot low birds if I pay for driven days I like to remember the birds I shoot/missed not need to forget the ones I mullered. some its about numbers not sport, a lot of top quality shooting is taken by businesses and people go just incase they miss business matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitfitter Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) I have keepers for the last 25 years both commercially and privately and in that time Seen some of the most unsportsmanlike behaviour chatting to a Lord one day about such things he said. "To test the true charachter of a man put a gun in his hand and a bird in the sky remember it is not our actions In the field that define us but that of those who we acquaint our selves" Edited November 9, 2014 by Bitfitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and be safe Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 If the birds are presented "low" then like magman said, take your neighbours bird. I have done this on a partridge day recently and I expected my neighbouring guns to do the same to me. The average bird hight on that day was only 15 yards so we made our own challenging shots. We were all part of a team of friends and took great pleasure at landing your shot bird at your neighbours feet Don't know if this would go down to well on a invited day tough On a driven valley shoot where the bird are presented at different heights, then I would like to think that once you have shot one at a reasonable distance for your ability, then the guns would increase the distance between shots. I don't have a firm rule but ***** the distance to be acceptable before taking the shot. But above all SAFE with clear sky behind it. All the birds I shoot get eaten by myself or other shoot members, the last thing anyone wants to see is a "doughnut" bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 I shot today at Kings Walk in West Sussex on a mixed gun line - a couple of single guns and a group of friends. I was amazed at how low people were shooting pheasants - several under 20 yards. Over an 'elevensies' drink, I made a comment about giving the birds a chance and, with the exception of the gamekeeper, no one else thought the birds were unacceptably low. So, how low IS too low for you?? I wouldn't shoot driven birds unless I knew the full team of guns shooting. I have experienced, both as a gun and as a pickerup, greedy guns that can't let anything fly by. If this occurs in a mixed team ( those that are not known to each other) I have seen the whole line shooting low birds so that they feel they have had their monies worth. However, I did belong to a roving syndicate of very mixed ability and I never minded the poorest shots taking a few low birds, as long as they were safe, as they were incapable of shooting anything higher but enjoyed the day out with friends.I would say you should choose carefully your shooting companions and only shoot with those who are safe shots but don't deny those less capable of putting a few in the bag as long as their shots are safely taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Some commercial driven bird shoots have the terrain to present birds at a good height, and some cater specifically for high bird shooters, but not every shoot has the terrain nor the shooters with the capability. As long as the shot is safe and doesn't render the bird inedible then each to their own as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Guns should shoot to their ability but pillow casing is a no no as is speculative shots at skyscraper pheasants by below average guns. Personally I get no satisfaction from easy shots but like to stretch my legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Put yourselves in the shoes of someone who hasn't been to a driven day before, or alternatively a shooter who wants to get his moneys worth! I am not excusing poor sportsmanship, but can understand why it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 I totally agree with you regarding taking easy shots ,especially when your capable of much better. I was picking up behind a gun a couple of seasons ago on a drive which is no more than a bag filler, the average bird being well within most people's ability. The gun was getting stuck in and had shot a good number that I wouldn't gave lifted my gun to when an exceptional bird came over him and he folded it up with the first barrel. What satisfaction he got out of those other birds escapes me when he was capable of shooting much more challenging birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 If the only criteria of a good days driven shooting is how many birds you shoot you will be disappointed more often than pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSoanes Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Had a two day trip to Scotland a few years ago, we shot back to back days on the same estate, on the first day most of the birds presented were nothing better than a standard suffolk pheasant, on the morning of the second day it was mentioned to the Keeper that we hadn't travelled all this way to shoot average birds, his reply was " shoot em low, stack em high!! " We havnt been back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Were they better off shooting within their capability rather than pricking lots? I would agree with this. Guns read in magazines about being selective and try it in the field, you then see not particularly good guns leaving 'low' birds and then trying to take high birds and missing them by miles They then end up pricked birds and/or terrible cartridge to kill ratios. So which is worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I would agree with this. Guns read in magazines about being selective and try it in the field, you then see not particularly good guns leaving 'low' birds and then trying to take high birds and missing them by miles They then end up pricked birds and/or terrible cartridge to kill ratios. So which is worse? This is subjective for me. My problem is people pillowcasing low birds - and leaving better ones. The how high is too high is a different debate for me. On a personal note, I would never shoot anywhere that my average exceeded 4:1, as it means my shooting kills are based more on luck than skill. I would never shoot places that advertise ratios of 10:1 or 15:1 as if it is something to be proud of. If you convert 15:1 into. 100 bird sporting clay round, accepting the ratio is the same as heading to the clay ground and thinking shooting 7/100 as a good day!!!! Some Guns (Dukes of Norfolk & Nothumberland, for example) will shoot these birds with metronomic accuracy and maintain a solid 2.5:1 ratio - but they are well practiced and shoot 6 days a week in the season. Super high is horrible for pricked birds; super low is just a pillowcase filler - equally horrible. For me, if you can only shoot birds that get pillow cased, I would suggest people find a different quarry. Edited November 10, 2014 by Beretta06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Again I agree, but my point was more about what people think they should do, and their definition of high and low birds. Like it or not a quite a few guns going pheasant shooting for the first time will have gleaned all the information they think they need from magazines and the internet. So they have would have read high is most sporting and low isn't so. We see very experienced, talented even, guns and we also see the other end of the scale, quite often in the same line. But when low isn't actually that low and they are incapable of cleanly killing or even hitting high, where does that leave them? I know it can be frustrating for a keeper when the bag limit seems a country mile away and yet plenty of decent birds have been presented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think we agree mostly :-) I think the incapable folk should be respectfully advised to take up fishing :-) :-) As for me getting frustrated with the pillowcasers in a mixed line, next year I have resolved to either only buy whole days (where I can invite friends who I know shoot well) or shoot in syndicates with Guns I am familiar with. So, problem solved :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think we agree mostly :-) I think the incapable folk should be respectfully advised to take up fishing :-) :-) As for me getting frustrated with the pillowcasers in a mixed line, next year I have resolved to either only buy whole days (where I can invite friends who I know shoot well) or shoot in syndicates with Guns I am familiar with. So, problem solved :-) A very sensible solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Isn't distance also important as well as height? A 20 yard high bird might not be sporting as it comes overhead but if its 40+ yards away is it any different from a bird 40 yards above you? Surely its all in the presentation? I've been on limited numbers of driven days but aside from the partridge fields, the guns were always placed so when the birds presented themselves they'd be well above us* but on some stands there was also lots of space from the tree line to the guns giving the birds a chance to go from incoming to crossing. Plenty of sky around the bird but some stands offered a shot at the bird when it was only 15-20 yards above ground, but 30-40 yards away. *Apart from one year when the ducks learnt how to play they game and refused to fly and just waddled in groups between the line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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