edge007 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I have been out of the shooting game for a while, sold all my shotguns and my 22 rimfire to fund my wedding.I must say i had no clue once i sold my 22 rimfire that slot closes? and i had to apply for a variation to open that slot back up? Im now back in the shooting game, got a permission, went to go buy a 22 rimfire from a well known gunshop, who sold me the gun, signed it onto my licence, took my money, so i took it home. The next day i took it to my permission to zero it in. Just got a call from my FEO who basically said i didnt have a slot to put my 22 rim fire on and im in illegal possesion of a firearm so i have to take it back to the gunshop, fill out a variation send it to them and wait for it to come back?? Is this right? am i in the wrong? Should the gunshop not of picked this up? Will this have any implications on variations/grants in the future? Any feedback would be appreciated Antony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 The gunshop should have picked this up. I'd imagine they are in a lot more trouble than you are ! Basically, when you get a FAC, view it as in 2 parts. Part 1 is the right to buy a certain gun. Part 2 is the right to keep.. Once you have bought a gun, Part 1 expires - you no longer have a right to buy that gun, and part 2 comes into play, the right to keep. Follow the FEO's guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Hi Antony Your FEO is correct once you sell a firearm you have to then put in for a one for one variation to get that slot back as you didnt at the time you should have put in for a variation before you purchased. It specifices on the FAC now that sale of a firearms does not entitle you to get another one without a variation. I am suprised you RFD didnt pick this up on your certificate. On the plus side at least it appears your FEO is being reasonable about it and saying take it back to the shop straight away and put in for the variation. As for future grants unfortunately the only one who can awnser that is your FEO you will proably get a visit for a chat when you put in for your variation. As Robbie P says I would imagine the RFD is going to get a talking to. Shotguns are different as once you have your certificate you can buy and sell as you please to other licencees as long as you keep firearms notified of the transactions. Although a lot of forces request extra security is in place for if large numbers of shotguns are kept. Edited January 23, 2015 by Zetter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMcC Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 If you sold your .22 rf and didn't ask for a 1 for 1 variation, which in effect keeps your Fc current, then once you sold it, you actually closed your FC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge007 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I thought as much - i am going to take the gun back tomorrow - hope the variation goes through as ive painted the stock!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 With all due respect I find it astounding that people hold a FAC and have no idea about what they can and cannot do legally. I've no idea what your FEO will suggest what happens now, I know what I'd do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge007 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 To be honest, i havnt checked what it says on the certificate itself - i have gone through the firearms application form and it doesnt say anything or have any guidance on how it works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 To be honest, i havnt checked what it says on the certificate itself - i have gone through the firearms application form and it doesnt say anything or have any guidance on how it works? I'm not having a dig mate, honestly, it's just such an easy way to get into strife, maybe this highlights the lack of information given and guidance to fac holders. I'm sure you'll be fine, it's a technical infringement, it's not as if you didn't have a fac to start with. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge007 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm not having a dig mate, honestly, it's just such an easy way to get into strife, maybe this highlights the lack of information given and guidance to fac holders. I'm sure you'll be fine, it's a technical infringement, it's not as if you didn't have a fac to start with. Good luck Thank you - i will let you know how it pans out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Its more the fault of the RFD selling you a section 1 firearm without the proper certification. He should have told you. You should have known, in addition. It isnt the end of the world but you had better read the HO guidance and all relevant material or there is a very good reason to say you are likely to be in breach in the future (dont know - cant do as expected). 2/10 just about covers it i'm sorry to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 It's a silly system really, you don't need to have a 're test every time you change cars for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I think like for like is a bit of a **** condition. Maybe not have 2x.22 , 2x.243 etc but surely if you sell one model you should be allowed to purchase another? You need to tell you've sold/purchased after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMcC Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 There was a time not so long ago where you could get a variation that was worded 'Authorised to acquire X cf rifle on disposal of Y cf rifle' and it was quite straight forward, but not this day and age of paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I had a similar thing with a moderator recently, took it back to the shop, variation gone in, no biggy Edited January 23, 2015 by thepasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 How on earth did this get through a RFD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 There was a time not so long ago where you could get a variation that was worded 'Authorised to acquire X cf rifle on disposal of Y cf rifle' and it was quite straight forward, but not this day and age of paperwork. That still about had sold a rifle to someone in December with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Personally, I think if you were 'in trouble' you'd know about it by now, and your FEO wouldn't have suggested a 'get out of jail free' solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) If you where in trouble you would have armed response unit on your door to take all your guns away with out warning take it from me Edited January 25, 2015 by littlerob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 It is a one for one variation and is free. I think the idea behind having to apply for a variation to add the slot back on your fac is because to keep an fac firearm you need a requirement to own it and once you have parted/sold the firearm you need to confirm that you still have a requirement for it as you may also be changing type or calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastiebap Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Pretty much what others have said, the fact that your FEO asked you to take it back and didn't turn up at your door with a squad of officers tells me that they know that you've acted in good faith and not realised the mistake. Your RFD however will have a few difficult questions to answer. Pretty much what others have said, the fact that your FEO asked you to take it back and didn't turn up at your door with a squad of officers tells me that they know that you've acted in good faith and not realised the mistake. Your RFD however will have a few difficult questions to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 in all fairness to the OP, i wasnt aware that FAC's worked in that manner until i got my variation for section 1 shotgun last march. it wasnt ever explained to me by anyone and it was only by the good graces of a few on here that i found out and had it explained to me. i would like to think that at some point everything will a little less confusing, and RFD's will be able to complete a 1 for 1 variation. as it stands, its not too much of an inconvenience other than the waiting time for the 1 for 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69chris Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) just to go very slightly off the subject (sorry to op) but has anyone else come across this yet ?? YOU must write on the new owners FAC that you have sold him the rifle, then you take his FAC and rifle to your RFD who sends both to his RFD. The new owner has to post you his FAC New Kent FACS now have this written on them 4.if you are selling a firearm and/ or ammunition which will be sent or posted to another dealer for the buyer to collect in person, you should complete the table(s) and notify the police of the transaction concerning the fire arm. The dealer who actually hands over the firearm and/or ammunition should not complete the table(s) or notify the police.as an RFD I have already been pulled for not doing this and doing it as said by others but I won't be doing that any more. You must send them your FAC be fore they send it to your RFD. And yes 100% sure after a *********** from FEO and it writing in black and white on FAC I don't think this is new it's just now being enforced so it makes it easier for the police to track sold rifles. RFDs should charge less as they don't do the paper work. Why won't you post your FAC to buy a rifle? It can't be used by anyone as it has a picture of you on it. The "old way won't be happening as the RFDs start doing it the "new" way and if we were sent a rifle from another RFD I would not hand it over unless the new owners FAC had the writen on by the seller. We will all have to post our FACs to the sellers as more RFDs realise the rules have changed. Some people just don't like change and will try and do it the old way as long as ***. extracts taken from a thread elsewhere, iv had a rfd transfer recently and i didnt have to post my fac to the seller ?? iv tried calling my feo but have benn unable to catch him as yet to ask him, is bruce willis about to drop onto the roof of my house from an attack chopper as the rfd and myself clearly did it wrong or will i be safe for another day ?? Edited January 27, 2015 by 69chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 You'll be ok, Bruce Willis is an old man now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge007 Posted February 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Just to let you know - thankfully my variation came through no problem and no dramas !! i definatly will not be making that mistake again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 All's well that............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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