EU Referendum

[Nial]

MEXICO, has the same trading rights with the EU as us, and as we buy more from them than they buy from us they couldn't afford to freeze us out.

 

I think a free trade agreement could be implemented fairly easily.

[Psyxologos]

 

 

Why?

 

Because it allows the best people to get the best positions wherever they chose within the EU. That's why. Plain and simple.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

 

Because it allows the best people to get the best positions wherever they chose within the EU. That's why. Plain and simple.

 

But you want UNLIMITED FREE MOVEMENT, that by definition will bring all sorts in, NOT just the BEST!

[SHOOTEMUP]

There is absolutely no need to be in a political union to be able to trade.

 

The US, Canada and Mexico do huge amounts of trade with each other without political union.

Do you think Russia would allow China to dictate their laws? Yet they do huge amounts of trade together.

Do Australia, New Zealand and Fiji have free movement of people? No, yet they trade quite happily together...as do just about every other country in every other trading area in the world.

 

The EU is the only trading area that seems to think a trading bloc can only be run by having to be in a political and financial union. It's BS of the highest order.

The fact is the EU is not about trade...it's about forming a European superstate.

What has the inclusion of the old Soviet states actually brought to the party trade wise? Very little I would suggest, What it has done however is taken away the 'buffer zone' between Russia and the rest of Europe, effectively placing western Europe and its NATO backed forces on Russia's doorstep. As we've already seen in Ukraine, that's not such a good idea.

 

The EU? It's corrupt to its core, and an incredibly dangerous institution. The sooner the whole project is broken up the better for everyone. Trading with each other is fine, I've no problem with that, but can anyone tell me why we should be beholden to their law making process, or why we should not police our own borders? Genuine question.

+1

[safc1973]

Having un-elected officials giving jobs to each other with massive salaries of public money, with no way to remove them by the people, no accountability and the total lack of them publishing/auditing their finances. It pretty much spits in the face of everything democracy stands for.

 

This is what annoys me most about the EU - failed politicians like Neil Kinnock picking up massive salaries for doing nothing except occasionally dreaming up pointless new regulations that no one wants or needs.

[kdubya]

 

Because it allows the best people to get the best positions wherever they chose within the EU. That's why. Plain and simple.

must admit the car washers around here seem pretty good.

 

KW

[Scully]

 

Because it allows the best people to get the best positions wherever they chose within the EU. That's why. Plain and simple.

A 35 year old Lithuanian woman married with one child who works in a local hotel with my daughter is on £ 5.13 per hour. I can't be bothered to google the minimum wage but I'm pretty sure it's more than £ 5.13. This is the 'best position' she can find, being unskilled.

[poontang]

A 35 year old Lithuanian woman married with one child who works in a local hotel with my daughter is on £ 5.13 per hour. I can't be bothered to google the minimum wage but I'm pretty sure it's more than £ 5.13. This is the 'best position' she can find, being unskilled.

 

Five times the average wage in Lithuania, so she must be feeling flush.

[Scully]

 

Five times the average wage in Lithuania, so she must be feeling flush.

[poontang]

A 35 year old Lithuanian woman married with one child who works in a local hotel with my daughter is on £ 5.13 per hour. I can't be bothered to google the minimum wage but I'm pretty sure it's more than £ 5.13. This is the 'best position' she can find, being unskilled.

 

National Minimum Wage is £6.50 an hour iirc.

 

There are one or two circumstances where it's legal to pay less than NMW, but not many.

 

The hotel need to be careful if they're paying below the NMW without good reason...they'll be hung out to dry.

[Fisherman Mike]

Surely Nigel hood and his merry men are going to fight tooth and nail to restructure a better and workable deal for Britain though aren't they?

 

I thought that was why I was paying them.😕

 

We have already seen that a poll on the Forum involving anything remotely ukip related is heavily biased and not a accurate reflection of the views of the masses so I suspect a in out poll will return a resounding In.

 

If this wasn't the case surely ukip would have polled even more votes as leaving the EU was surely such a fundamental magnet to their voters wasn't it.

 

Britain needs to stay in and fight for a major role not chuck it's toys out of the pram and sku1lk off with its tail between its legs.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Fisherman Mike

[Psyxologos]

A 35 year old Lithuanian woman married with one child who works in a local hotel with my daughter is on £ 5.13 per hour. I can't be bothered to google the minimum wage but I'm pretty sure it's more than £ 5.13. This is the 'best position' she can find, being unskilled.

 

The Hotel operator should be answerable for this. How is that the fault of the worker, no matter where they come from?

[FalconFN]

I voted undecided as there is an awful lot to consider and im genuinely torn between two opposing arguments.

 

I agree with poontang that the political union of Europe is unnecessary and currently undemocratic and the ideological European state is something I feel uncomfortable about for a number of reasons. Having said that, the EU is one of (if not the) largest economies on the planet so if we were to leave we would still want and need to trade with them - and that would mean adhering to all of the trade laws and, like Norway and Iceland who are in the EEA but not the EU, agree to the free movement of workers.

 

So what would we actually gain from leaving? We would possibly reduce some of our payments (but not all as EEA members still make contributions), we would possibly be free from a small proportion of EU laws (although uk and EU law is largely similar - largely because we wrote much of it) and we would feel free of the control of Brussels. But thst freedom is just as ideological as the eu state-maker's desire for political harmony. Added to that we would not get a say in the future desicions and effectively be a figurative employee of the EU rather than a manager and more than likely still have unlimited immigration from the EU and a hefty bill.

 

It isn't a straightforward answer to a simple question though so I'll wait until I hear what other, more knowledgeable people know first.

[overandunder2012]

out

[oliver90owner]

Referendum? Don't be silly! There will only be a referendum if the result was sure to be what Cameron wants. If there were any chance of losing it, there would not be one. Cameron would be gone, along with his 'promise'.

[besty57]

out

. What he said

[Vince Green]

 

National Minimum Wage is £6.50 an hour iirc.

 

There are one or two circumstances where it's legal to pay less than NMW, but not many.

 

The hotel need to be careful if they're paying below the NMW without good reason...they'll be hung out to dry.

A growing number of the hotels and other companies employ the staff via an emplyment agency in say Lithuania. So the staff member is legally employed not by the hotel but by the agency under Lithuanian employment T & C etc because they sign their contracts in Lithuania. . That way its down to the agency what they pay , British law doesn't apply in Lithuania.

 

Its much more common now than you think and its legal. The practice is known as using an umbrella company (ie the Lithuanian agency).

 

Its not only about pay, the staff never gain employee rights under UK law either.

 

There are things going on in this country that the general public have little idea about

Edited May 13, 2015 by Vince Green

[Scully]

Surely Nigel hood and his merry men are going to fight tooth and nail to restructure a better and workable deal for Britain though aren't they?

 

We have already seen that a poll on the Forum involving anything remotely ukip related is heavily biased and not a accurate reflection of the views of the masses so I suspect a in out poll will return a resounding In.

 

If this wasn't the case surely ukip would have polled even more votes as leaving the EU was surely such a fundamental magnet to their voters wasn't it.

 

Britain needs to stay in and fight for a major role not chuck it's toys out of the pram and sku1lk off with its tail between its legs.

UKIP aren't fighting for a 'better and workable deal' Mike, they're fighting to get us out. You're still not really getting this are you?

Which poll are you referring to Mike, the one in which UKIP accrued 4 million votes or the one where they accrued the vast majority of the vote share as a percentage of which party gained and lost votes?

Britain doesn't 'need' to stay in and fight for a major role, the idea they'll be given one is ludicrous.

If we haven't lost anything I wonder why Osborne is claiming he will be negotiating to get back that which we haven't lost ?

 

 

The Hotel operator should be answerable for this. How is that the fault of the worker, no matter where they come from?

The hotel owner is a Tory; says it all really. I never claimed it was the fault of the worker; she is clearly being exploited as cheap immigrant labour. The EU is clearly working well......for some.

[guzzicat]

Exports & Imports to from EU, Today the largest container vessel ever is bringing it,s cargo into U/K (not from E/U) is this going back empty?+ letting MP,s vote on in /out , Nasty Nicola,s Tartan army will all vote to stay in ,as she is adamant Scotland will join E/U in the event of an indipendance vote, OUT!

[pimpkiller]

3rd option should be "shake it all about"

[FalconFN]

The hoteul owner is a Tory; says it all really. I never claimed it was the fault of the worker; she is clearly being exploited as cheap immigrant labour. The EU is clearly working well......for some.

 

But getting out of the EU wouldn't stop Lithuanian workers coming here and it wouldn't stop exploitative practice's, in fact it could actually go the other way. Look at other non EU countries and see what happens there, like Norway that has a population of 5 million and 50 k Lithuanians.

 

How would leaving the EU change your particular anecdote? I honestly don't know the answer to that question but i suspected its all very complicated and full of loopholes and grey areas.

Edited May 13, 2015 by FalconFN

[Scully]

But getting out of the EU wouldn't stop Lithuanian workers coming here and it wouldn't stop exploitative practice's, in fact it could actually go the other way. Look at other non EU countries and see what happens there, like Norway that has a population of 5 million and 50 k Lithuanians.

 

How would leaving the EU change your particular anecdote? I honestly don't know the answer to that question but i suspected its all very complicated and full of loopholes and grey areas.

If we had an Australian based points system Lithuanian workers wouldn't come here unless they had the skills we sought, or would they? I'd be interested in learning how it could 'go the other way' though.

I'm not proposing leaving the EU would change my anecdote; that is clearly a matter for the employer, the employee and legislation. My one and only reason remains as it always has, namely to remove ourselves from a corrupt, unelected and unaccountable bureaucracy.

[TriBsa]

[FalconFN]

If we had an Australian based points system Lithuanian workers wouldn't come here unless they had the skills we sought, or would they? I'd be interested in learning how it could 'go the other way' though.

I'm not proposing leaving the EU would change my anecdote; that is clearly a matter for the employer, the employee and legislation. My one and only reason remains as it always has, namely to remove ourselves from a corrupt, unelected and unaccountable bureaucracy.

 

I really don't know. The trouble with the Australian points based system is that we are not Australia but a part of Europe (culturally and geographically), they would still be our major trading partners so we would have to conform to their trading agreements, which could well mean agreeing to an open, or at least porous, border policy - I suppose much depends on the regotiating skill of the politicisns. My point is that leaving the EU will not be the panacea that some have portrayed it to be, we will still have immigration, EU dictated laws and a financial contribution even if we are not at the council table.

 

It could get worse by workers going underground and working illegally with fewer rights, but that's just conjecture.

 

I have some sympathy with the last part though.

[Dave-G]

Out. I'm British not european.

 

The bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that Europe decides who we can allow to come and stay here and who we cannot deport and gawd knows how much other fudge we take from them.