Gay Marrage.

[spinach]

Thanks for your reply. I know the community very well my Uncle after attending a catholic funeral of someone he fought with in WW2 and who'd saved his life was shunned and removed him as an elder of the church. That was not that long ago.

The shame is things have to go through lawyers and end up as funny or poor headlines made up by jounalists ,two professions that are vital but I'd rather not bake a cake or give house room to but then I'm not a buisness.

I'd rather not force a church to approve a marriage on grounds of religious difference but that arguments for parliament.

I attended a wedding party yesterday day of two men who next year will both be 50 and spent have half there lives together . They as a statement weren't going to have a cake but a rainbow coloured iced sponge appeared with the words "let them eat cake".

I have great sympathy and probably agree more with your world of level headed agreement of views in the world .

But the world changes through laws and they are awkward and cumbersome.

If the couples that tried to get cake or rent a room with the knowledge that refusal would be given and then grandstand I would not want to support ! But the law is right I think.

When I lived in London I was traveling on the bus with a mate when we were attacked as Gay by a group of young Black men with there girls filming as they chanted kill the batty's NO one helped the driver just stopped the bus and kicked us of befor calling me a queer ****.

I was glad to be off the bus as I walked home to my wife and son. Bigotry comes in many shapes. I do not live my life feeling like that might happen or my custom refused for a celebration cake or a hard worked for holiday dismissed but clearly some do and that cannot be right.

Cheers John.

[aris]

Never thought of it like that and it seems a point that's very difficult to argue with. But what I find difficult to swallow is why the whole gay thing has to be repeated rammed down the throats of those whose position is undecided on the matter. It all leaves a bit of a nasty taste in the mouth.

 

How is it being rammed down your throat? Is someone forcing you to marry another man? Yes, change is difficult to accept (for some) - but soon enough this whole controversy will be long forgotten.

[69chris]

A business is obliged by law to offer its services equally and without discrimination (Equality Act, 2010) - if you condone discrimination against one group, you are turning the clock back 50 years. Since it is the business that people are dealing with, and not a human entity, it cannot turn someone away who has the ability to pay. What about refusing to serve women or turning someone away simply on the grounds of their skin? I fail to see how the rights of a gay couple to have the same rights as I do in any way diminishes mine. It has nothing to do with "PC" (which has no real meaning beyond anything for which someone has an irrational dislike) and everything about being a decent, considerate individual with a respect for others.

 

pubs seem to still get away with their 'no biker' signs ok - perhaps your allowed to be discriminated against if you choose to ride a motorbike ??

[grrclark]

 

pubs seem to still get away with their 'no biker' signs ok - perhaps your allowed to be discriminated against if you choose to ride a motorbike ??

Perhaps if the bikers were to take action against the pub you would find out that they are not allowed to be discriminated against too.

 

If nobody challenges the view of the ignorant then indeed they will get away with it, if it pains you so much then be brave and take the first step to asserting you rights.

[islandgun]

Talk of discrimination made me remember an incident in a pub in Chester I was having a few beers and talking to an African we were having a laugh, when a young man in a wheelchair asked us to move our beers and table, a couple of inches so he could get by, which we did, when he had passed the African said that people like him (the disabled bloke) shouldnt be allowed in Pubs taking up room, I was horrified as I thought that as a minority he should have been more considerate, and of course I was wrong he has as much right to be discriminating as everyone else

Edited May 25, 2015 by islandgun

[welsh1]

 

pubs seem to still get away with their 'no biker' signs ok - perhaps your allowed to be discriminated against if you choose to ride a motorbike ??

Have a read, A public house is not actually a public place.An interesting article, and i am sure that there are a lot of grey areas.

 

https://licensinglaws.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/the-21st-century-right-of-refusal/

[scotslad]

Talk of discrimination made me remember an incident in a pub in Chester I was having a few beers and talking to an African we were having a laugh, when a young man in a wheelchair asked us to move our beers and table, a couple of inches so he could get by, which we did, when he had passed the African said that people like him (the disabled bloke) shouldnt be allowed in Pubs taking up room, I was horrified as I thought that as a minority he should have been more considerate, and of course I was wrong he has as much right to be discriminating as everyone else

 

Just goes to prove that ********* come in all shapes, colours and sizes (and sexual orientation)

[STOTTO]

Personally for me marriage is between a man and a woman, what irritates me is if you have that view you get shouted down. Why should you be sorry for having a different view, that goes against the PC populist view. Everyone has a right to their own view on the subject.

 

Toleration, the discipline of accommodating the otherwise unacceptable!

[Scully]

So long as we're debating discrimination I don't feel I'm going off topic by inserting this, but was talking to a local farmer yesterday who mentioned he'd had a visit from Customs and Excise who wanted to 'dip' all the vehicles on his premises, including the family car.

The farmer had said to one of them 'no doubt you'll be busy next week', referring to Gypsy Fair week when traditionally there has been many seized and impounded vehicles locked up behind the police station having tested positive for red diesel, but he was told they ( meaning C&E ) have been 'banned' as he put it, from going anywhere near

Fair week as it has now been deemed as discriminatory to an ethnic minority.

Doesn't that mean the majority are now being discriminated against? After all, the law is the law..........isn't it?

Edited May 25, 2015 by Scully

[grrclark]

Scully, I would imagine there will be some technicality where if C&E were to turn up at 'fair week' to dip tanks then they would have already assumed that the fair visitors were more likely to be using red diesel, so discriminating based on ethnic background before they actually establish anything.

 

I agree with your point however, it is a mockery of process.

 

I don't believe that the majority are beholden to the exploitative minorities, but it doesn't half rankle when you see it played out in front of you.

[shaun4860]

My kids can be baptised if they so choose, but so far neither has expressed a desire.

I am 1 of 3 children,

 

Older sister was Christened,

 

Neither me nor younger sister has been.

 

I have no interest in being christened and these days Christenings just seem an excuse to have a party?

 

I was at one a couple of years ago and it had a karaoke party afterward,

 

I was watching the Newcastle game yesterday at a club, next door in the function room was a christening after party, blooming disco at 4 in the afternoon.

 

Kids huh

 

[Scully]

Scully, I would imagine there will be some technicality where if C&E were to turn up at 'fair week' to dip tanks then they would have already assumed that the fair visitors were more likely to be using red diesel, so discriminating based on ethnic background before they actually establish anything.

 

 

Correct, but if the locals are dipped also, as they indeed were, then I don't see where the discrimination is.

Is it still discrimination when the facts prove that 'assumption' correct? They have never caught any locals using red, but many many travellers.

Some of the pubs remove all furnishings, including carpets, and utilise trestle tables and plastic chairs, as they don't want their usual furnishings wrecked, they also put up their prices only for that week, and some pubs shut but allow locals in through the back door. Isn't this discrimination?

[Vince Green]

Talk of discrimination made me remember an incident in a pub in Chester I was having a few beers and talking to an African we were having a laugh, when a young man in a wheelchair asked us to move our beers and table, a couple of inches so he could get by, which we did, when he had passed the African said that people like him (the disabled bloke) shouldnt be allowed in Pubs taking up room, I was horrified as I thought that as a minority he should have been more considerate, and of course I was wrong he has as much right to be discriminating as everyone else

I lived in West Africa for a while years ago. They definitely have a different take on disability and indeed illness or aging. Thats just the way they are, I wouldn't have been surprised by your friend's reaction. There were no disabled children in the part of West Africa where I was, they just let them die at birth.Cruel but practical I suppose.

[Scully]

I am 1 of 3 children,

 

Older sister was Christened,

 

Neither me nor younger sister has been.

 

I have no interest in being christened and these days Christenings just seem an excuse to have a party?

 

I was at one a couple of years ago and it had a karaoke party afterward,

 

I was watching the Newcastle game yesterday at a club, next door in the function room was a christening after party, blooming disco at 4 in the afternoon.

 

Kids huh

 

Yep, a step daughter of a friend had never been christened, but after attending a christening locally decided she wanted to be christened when she saw all the presents the newly christened child had been given. Can't blame her, she was just a young lass at the time.

[keg]

It`s an outdated institution in today`s secular society . . . who cares.

That's your opinion, many would differ, why is it outdated?

 

In a survey in 2011 by the institute of fiscal studies,it concluded that children are more likely to do well in life if they are brought up by two married parents.

 

It also said that this was a survey and that this did not automatically mean that all single parent families are going to do badly. I know of a couple of mates brought up with single parents who have done incredibly well and are happily married.

Edited May 25, 2015 by keg

[keg]

A business is obliged by law to offer its services equally and without discrimination (Equality Act, 2010) - if you condone discrimination against one group, you are turning the clock back 50 years. Since it is the business that people are dealing with, and not a human entity, it cannot turn someone away who has the ability to pay. What about refusing to serve women or turning someone away simply on the grounds of their skin? I fail to see how the rights of a gay couple to have the same rights as I do in any way diminishes mine. It has nothing to do with "PC" (which has no real meaning beyond anything for which someone has an irrational dislike) and everything about being a decent, considerate individual with a respect for others.

Beat me to it.

 

We would all be hacked off if a business refused to serve serving military people, what's the difference?

[ordnance]

 

NickS, on 25 May 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

A business is obliged by law to offer its services equally and without discrimination (Equality Act, 2010) - if you condone discrimination against one group, you are turning the clock back 50 years. Since it is the business that people are dealing with, and not a human entity, it cannot turn someone away who has the ability to pay. What about refusing to serve women or turning someone away simply on the grounds of their skin? I fail to see how the rights of a gay couple to have the same rights as I do in any way diminishes mine. It has nothing to do with "PC" (which has no real meaning beyond anything for which someone has an irrational dislike) and everything about being a decent, considerate individual with a respect for others

They didn't refuse them because they were Gay, they refused them because the cake supported Gay marriage, something they did not support. They had also turned down straight people in the past that had wanted cakes baked for stag parties with phallic symbols on them , again something that they did not agree with.

 

 

We would all be hacked off if a business refused to serve serving military people, what's the difference

Do you thing a baker should be forced to bake a cake supporting ISIS or the murder of Lee Rigby etc. ?

[bluesj]

Beat me to it.

 

We would all be hacked off if a business refused to serve serving military people, what's the difference?

I would not use that business as i don't use the co op, on the flip side if you ran a printing business and someone came in wanting flyers printed calling for the banning of all private gun ownership would you print them?

[kdubya]

That's your opinion, many would differ, why is it outdated?

 

In a survey in 2011 by the institute of fiscal studies,it concluded that children are more likely to do well in life if they are brought up by two married parents.

 

It also said that this was a survey and that this did not automatically mean that all single parent families are going to do badly. I know of a couple of mates brought up with single parents who have done incredibly well and are happily married.

lets not spoil it for those here who's view of normal life has been steered via eastenders and the like.

 

KW

[flynny]

Do I agree with gay marriage,

 

No not at all, each to there own, but a family is mam, dad and brothers and sisters and has been for years upon years,

 

Let's not treat it as normal eh? Coz it ain't, man and man or woman and woman can't have kids its biologically impossible( I know they can adopt etc)

 

It's a sign of the times, which I ain't gonna tell my kids is normal. But I won't tell gays, etc that they can't do it,

 

I just don't agree with it,

 

That's my opinion which I'm entitled to, as gays are entitled to there's

 

Atb

Flynny

[grrclark]

Correct, but if the locals are dipped also, as they indeed were, then I don't see where the discrimination is.

Is it still discrimination when the facts prove that 'assumption' correct? They have never caught any locals using red, but many many travellers.

Some of the pubs remove all furnishings, including carpets, and utilise trestle tables and plastic chairs, as they don't want their usual furnishings wrecked, they also put up their prices only for that week, and some pubs shut but allow locals in through the back door. Isn't this discrimination?

I don't disagree with you at all, it angers me terribly when there is clear evidence of criminality, yet we avoid talking about it or taking action to proactively manage that for fear of repercussion.

 

I am against positive discrimination to protect the rights of minorities as it skews things disproportionately as much as regular discrimination does; whilst I recognise that we needed to take positive steps to correct the imbalances of the past and reset perceptions of what is acceptable behaviour I don't think it is appropriate that we should just invert the behaviour in some vain and futile attempt at reparation.

 

As an aside, I really sympathise with the residents of your wee town at this time of year.

[Scully]

I don't disagree with you at all, it angers me terribly when there is clear evidence of criminality, yet we avoid talking about it or taking action to proactively manage that for fear of repercussion.

 

I am against positive discrimination to protect the rights of minorities as it skews things disproportionately as much as regular discrimination does; whilst I recognise that we needed to take positive steps to correct the imbalances of the past and reset perceptions of what is acceptable behaviour I don't think it is appropriate that we should just invert the behaviour in some vain and futile attempt at reparation.

 

As an aside, I really sympathise with the residents of your wee town at this time of year.

Thanks. You would think that after 55 years I'd have learned to live with it, but I haven't.

We deal with it in different ways. A mate always chooses his hol's during Fair week, others go to the TT, while some rent out their houses for the week and disappear abroad, while others make lots of money from it.

I think their presence wouldn't be resented so much if there weren't one law for the travellers and one for the locals.

[welsh1]

Do I agree with gay marriage,

 

No not at all, each to there own, but a family is mam, dad and brothers and sisters and has been for years upon years,

 

Let's not treat it as normal eh? Coz it ain't, man and man or woman and woman can't have kids its biologically impossible( I know they can adopt etc)

 

It's a sign of the times, which I ain't gonna tell my kids is normal. But I won't tell gays, etc that they can't do it,

 

I just don't agree with it,

 

That's my opinion which I'm entitled to, as gays are entitled to there's

 

Atb

Flynny

 

Not correct.

 

fam·i·ly

ˈfam(ə)lē/

noun

1. 1.

   a group consisting of parents and children living together in a household.
2. 2.

   all the descendants of a common ancestor.

   "the house has been owned by the same family for 300 years"

   synonyms: ancestry, parentage, pedigree, genealogy, background, family tree,descent, lineage, bloodline, blood, extraction, stock; More

adjective

1. 1.

   designed to be suitable for children as well as adults.

   "a family newspaper"

[flynny]

a group consisting of parents and children living together in a household.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but parents ( mum and dad) and children ( brothers and sisters) ??? And as said old bean, that is how I see a family group not , dad and dad or mum and mum etc,

So let's not get into tit for tat ********, the op asked a question and I answered it



YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

ATB

flynny

[grrclark]

I think their presence wouldn't be resented so much if there weren't one law for the travellers and one for the locals.

It is the complete lack of respect for anybody else that really galls me. It doesn't even have to be criminal behaviour, although that is worse, but just groups of self interested and ignorant fools who don't care about anybody else. Makes my blood boil.