FalconFN Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) I'm looking at a cheap Laurona O/U 12g as a pigeon gun but it is 'true' cylinder choked on both barrels (I believe that is the same as open). As it stands that isn't going to be great for pigeons but I had a thought that if I used steel then it would that give me a tighter pattern than lead. Can anyone tell me what sort of effective range I could expect to get with steel? Also, how do I check for certain that it is safe to use with steel - or will it not matter with no choke? Edited October 7, 2015 by FalconFN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Cylinder barrels are fine for pigeons over decoys . I used a skeet gun for years on decoyed pigeons . Out of the five chokes I have for my beretta gas gun I have only used the imp cylinder . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm looking at a cheap Laurona O/U 12g as a pigeon gun but it is 'true' cylinder choked on both barrels (I believe that is the same as open). As it stands that isn't going to be great for pigeons but I had a thought that if I used steel then it would that give me a tighter pattern than lead. Can anyone tell me what sort of effective range I could expect to get with steel? Also, how do I check for certain that it is safe to use with steel - or will it not matter with no choke? Don't even entertain these barmy ideas. Why do you think that it isn't going to be any good for pigeon or anything else for that matter? You dont need steel put #7 lead in it and it will chop stuff down all day long. Dont even think about it because you will sych yourself out of hitting the target. Fit is the most important thing if it fits you, you will take the target but if it doesn't fit it wont matter if you've got half or full choke you aren't going to hit the target. Buy it and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redditch Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 The more open the choke the better chance of hitting stuff. Just ensure you have enough pellets to fill the pattern and you'll be fine I've hit corvids and pigeon at 70+ metres with a cyl choke (okay, I was using 36gr no4) The main thing is, for pigeon light (small) shot works, whereas you need either heavy shot or tight patterns for crows generally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 My muzzle loaders are cylinder and good to 30 yds. Sometimes further. You will be surprised just how well it does with small shot. #7narfs are good for pigeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 My A1 Skeet is always with me at sporting grounds or shoots along with one of my other choked guns. I would say for 9 out of 10 stands the skeet is used along with #8 cartridges (something the late great AJS did and recommended) We do have a regular, yearly 3 days shoot local to me, some of you may know of it, and many of the targets set (50%) are 40 to 50 yards and some with midi clays. Here I think an open gun struggles a little, yes you might break one or two but that is by luck more than hardware. OK I am getting on my soap box here but to me a true sporting layout is one where the target/clays (quarry) are within the scope of a good clean kill and not something too far away that might be chipped (winged) on an off chance. In other words in the true sense of the word 'sporting'. I have been to many layouts where one or two targets are way beyond the once/twice a month shooter and only good for the likes of George Digweed 60 to 80 yard men i.e. those shooting every single day of the week and know precisely where their shot pattern is and what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 32g #6 through cylinder will do for most things you`ll shoot at . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 My 525 is choked CYL & SK and has no problems shattering clays on Sporting layouts using 27gm Power Reds #7.5-my guess would be that if you used 30gm # 6's thru your CYL choke then you would struggle to find a better gun for use over decoys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Brilliant, thanks for the replys, this is why PW is so damn good. I was researching on google and it seemed that the advice was that cylinder was only good for Max 20 yards. Who'd have thought it, not everything on google is true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I shot the Essex Masters for the first time this year, I went expecting silly distance targets, Yes there were a couple of stands (last on both layouts) that were distant but it was the speed and angle of the targets that caught people out, not distance, If the gun is pointing in the right place it will hit the target regardless of what choke you have in, (within reason) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) using cylinder if it is bored well gives good even patterns............BUT........it is down to your choice of cartridges as to how well the cylinder patterns... i might risk saying....cylinder borings are "cartridge sensitive"...........but if you choose the right one, they are deadly.. Edited October 8, 2015 by ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 using cylinder if it is bored well gives good even patterns............BUT........it is down to your choice of cartridges as to how well the cylinder patterns... +1 Haven't seen the Google piece, but it is possible that it could well be correct - not everything on PW is correct even if you wish it were because that's what you wanted to hear. Just a word of caution, though. You need to check what is meant by TC. A gun that actually shoots that will more often than not have a couple of points of choke. A gun that is physically bored TC will more often than not shoot somewhat wider. All being well, an ounce of 7 1/2s is good for a solid 30+ yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 i am no expert on this matter of chokings...i think i know enuff to keep me out of trouble True cylinder is not a fixed measurment that is transferred from gun to gun....a "true cylinder" is only relevant to the gun/barrel itself.....so if the internal measurements of the barrel are "X" then the end of the barrel where it is usually choked is also "X" then it is "true cylinder perhaps someone with more knowledge than myself can confirm this ? so if the seller of the gun says it is true cylinder....the choke end should match the bore marks on the barrel..............dont forget also the bore of the barrel can also change...due to maintenance or modification... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 using cylinder if it is bored well gives good even patterns............BUT........it is down to your choice of cartridges as to how well the cylinder patterns... i might risk saying....cylinder borings are "cartridge sensitive"...........but if you choose the right one, they are deadly.. ALL degrees of choke are cartridge sensitive and ONLY the pattern plate will tell you what cartridge works best through your individual weapon! i am no expert on this matter of chokings...i think i know enuff to keep me out of trouble True cylinder is not a fixed measurment that is transferred from gun to gun....a "true cylinder" is only relevant to the gun/barrel itself.....so if the internal measurements of the barrel are "X" then the end of the barrel where it is usually choked is also "X" then it is "true cylinder perhaps someone with more knowledge than myself can confirm this ? so if the seller of the gun says it is true cylinder....the choke end should match the bore marks on the barrel..............dont forget also the bore of the barrel can also change...due to maintenance or modification... Quite correct, each barrel can be different and each choke is only relative to the barrel it is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 ALL degrees of choke are cartridge sensitive and ONLY the pattern plate will tell you what cartridge works best through your individual gun! Quite correct, each barrel can be different and each choke is only relative to the barrel it is in. Fixed that for you :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 The more open the choke the better chance of hitting stuff. Just ensure you have enough pellets to fill the pattern and you'll be fine I've hit corvids and pigeon at 70+ metres with a cyl choke (okay, I was using 36gr no4) The main thing is, for pigeon light (small) shot works, whereas you need either heavy shot or tight patterns for crows generally What on earth are you smoking? 70+ metres?? I've hit?! Sorry but that is a ridiculous post...... Firstly I would wager a great deal of money you can't do that consistently even with full choke, and to shoot at stuff 70 metres, not yards! ....... With cylinder choke is unethical and unsporting whatever the quarry, 4's at that range through that combo, it won't have the pattern, sorry but posts like that are ridiculous....... Go and learn what a gun is capable of. Sorry to hi jack the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) i am no expert on this matter of chokings...i think i know enuff to keep me out of trouble True cylinder is not a fixed measurment that is transferred from gun to gun....a "true cylinder" is only relevant to the gun/barrel itself.....so if the internal measurements of the barrel are "X" then the end of the barrel where it is usually choked is also "X" then it is "true cylinder perhaps someone with more knowledge than myself can confirm this ? so if the seller of the gun says it is true cylinder....the choke end should match the bore marks on the barrel..............dont forget also the bore of the barrel can also change...due to maintenance or modification... i am no expert on this matter of chokings...i think i know enuff to keep me out of trouble True cylinder is not a fixed measurment that is transferred from gun to gun....a "true cylinder" is only relevant to the gun/barrel itself.....so if the internal measurements of the barrel are "X" then the end of the barrel where it is usually choked is also "X" then it is "true cylinder perhaps someone with more knowledge than myself can confirm this ? so if the seller of the gun says it is true cylinder....the choke end should match the bore marks on the barrel..............dont forget also the bore of the barrel can also change...due to maintenance or modification... Yep. Broken and splinted finger which has a mind of its own on the keyboard so taking ages to type. Your last post had not been edited when I started and I agree with your edit as well. Yep, again if the seller is an RFD then the gun will/should be advertised as bored but in the case of a private sale the buyer is dependent upon the seller's, "shoots TC". Hence my word of caution. Edit: Oops, said I was having trouble. Edited October 8, 2015 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Fixed that for you :-) Oh here we go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 There you are widgeon man perhaps you should learn what a gun is capable of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I've bared witness to pigeons being consistently shot at 60-70 yards with a skeet choked remy 1100 using 32gram 7's. that was the lasered distance too, so accurate enough in my opinion. each one folded up and dropped stone dead. not sure I would fancy corvids at that range but I'm sure its do-able. a lot of it is down to the shooter rather than the gun, as is always the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Thanks for the replies, I'll buy it and pattern it. Best not to get into a possible distance argument, my max range is only going to be around 35-40 yards as it will only be used over decoys and I'm not a good enough shot to try anything further (I had 12 for 26 carts yesterday, and I was happy with that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 20-40 yds max is a good decoying range..........put a couple of sticks out at 40yds so you can get the distance right...........for me on decoying 40 yds is a good shot....most of my stuff is 20-30 yds...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 There you are widgeon man perhaps you should learn what a gun is capable of A little different a multi times world champion using a gun choked extra full and shooting a clay than a average shot shooting live targets with a a gun choked cylinder don't you think ? Also as a shooting coach I would perhaps think Wigeon man already knows what a gun is capable of . There is now way on earth even George Digweed will consistently and more importantly cleanly kill stuff at 70 yards with Cylinder and 36 gram of number 4. And for anyone to suggest you can or should try as Wigeon man says is plain daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Thanks for the replies, I'll buy it and pattern it. Best not to get into a possible distance argument, my max range is only going to be around 35-40 yards as it will only be used over decoys and I'm not a good enough shot to try anything further (I had 12 for 26 carts yesterday, and I was happy with that). As ever and particularly in your case, pattern will fail first so there's not much to worry about regarding energy. If available to you (Eley's Clay Hush Power 7 1/2s fibre or plastic, for example) may be worth a try as a slower load often patterns tighter than an ultra fast one. Just a thought if you can't find any of the normal loads that suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Thanks for the tip. I much prefer fibre wads and lead shot but going back to my original question quickly, will steel generally pattern better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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