Wasted Lives

[krugerandsmith]

Over four hundred of our brave boys and girls killed fighting the Taliban...... Having left the country the enemy is now moving back in as predicted by most sane people. Your opinions please.

 

 

 

 

 

+

[bostonmick]

And the same will happen in Syria. The West has learned nothing from the past centuries of fighting for a lost cause in the regions.

[guzzicat]

We Learned nothing from the last two Afghan wars, they just melt away when it suits & re/emerge stronger.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I wish we didn't fight other peoples wars and I wish we had never tried to sort out the middle east.

 

 

 

 

Out last justified war was the Falkland Islands campaign!

[ditchman]

Let our army act like an army..........at the moment they are bound by "the court of human rights"...and told to work like a bunch of armed social workers.........let them do what they were trained to do....yeah there are going to be mistakes and colateral damage ....tough

[timmytree]

It's not a case of not learning from the last war, it's more that the idiots in charge haven't learned from the last 150 years of our involvement in that area. Read the early life of Winston Churchill and you'll see nothing has changed and never will. You cannot give democracy to people who have such a bigoted and warlike mindset, they are more intent on their intertribal clashes and village feuds and that's how we should have left it.

As it is, we have wasted all those lives, lord knows how much money for absolutely nothing. We now have even more zealots with a grudge against the West that will be held for generations.

[jonny thomas]

Nuke em all let Allah sort em out

Texas style

Seriously though first step would to admit that it's all about oil and just get on with it

Then deal with our over reliance on oil

Then burn all their poppy fields thus curbing their income

[PhilR]

My father sailed to India in 1932 as part of the British Army to keep the peace between India, as it was then, and Afghanistan in the North West frontier as the latter were throwing their weight about, he returned home in 1938.

Nothing has changed there since then, bar the creation of Pakistan.

[Pigeonman1]

I have done two tours of Afghanistan, the first was in Sangin (the major town in Helmand now almost in taliban hands) and the second in Kajaki, with a month or so back down in Sangin. The firt tine i was there Sangin was a bombed out mess, resembling a scene from mad max. It was relatively sparcely populated and the taliban generally had much freedom of movement. When i returned three years later the place was unrecognisable. The bazaar (high street of shops) was a hive of activity with shops ranging from mechanics to bakers doing brisk business. The place had been tidied up somewhat and the population had returned. It cost a lot of lives to get to this state of affairs, 13 men from my battle group died on that second tour, four of whom were good friends. I have said all along that once we left and allowed the Afghan forces to take responsibility for their own country then the taliban would run wild. Unfortunately i have been proven right!

[poontang]

Nuke em all let Allah sort em out

Texas style

Seriously though first step would to admit that it's all about oil and just get on with it

Then deal with our over reliance on oil

Then burn all their poppy fields thus curbing their income

 

Have you ever thought about joining the Diplomatic Service?

[rjimmer]

Let our army act like an army..........at the moment they are bound by "the court of human rights"...and told to work like a bunch of armed social workers.........let them do what they were trained to do....yeah there are going to be mistakes and colateral damage ....tough

+1

[Jaymo]

+2

[clakk]

Rules of engagement were written by a civil servant who,s never seen people maimed and killed because 1 hand is tied behind their back by P.c madness .Send the head of the civil service to help recapture Helmand ,youl have a new set of rules in a day

[Delboysparky]

Did we ever expect anything else to happen, world super powers had their work cut out dealing with the Taliban, a third world tin pot army like the ANA never had a chance. Corruption and greed rule in Afghan and it won't change no matter how much the west wants it to.

 

Best thing we could have done was install a strong no messing King who could slowly install democracy over 50 years or so, on Islamic terms, this would have given the Afghans ownership of their own system whilst still having sufficient fear in the state to behave.

[Hamster]

And the same will happen in Syria. The West has learned nothing from the past centuries of fighting for a lost cause in the regions.

 

I disagree, the West knew exactly what could and couldn't be achieved by exporting made up conflicts over to the ME. It's practically in the Wests's DNA , go back as many years as you like to whichever ME war you like where the West has had a hand and if you read up on it with an open mind perspective (leaving patriotism aside) you'll find the locals were merely pawns in the bigger scheme involving oil, money, influence and land.

 

You can keep telling yourselves that the people in the ME are war like blah blah but it is the West and in no uncertain terms mainly the US that are addicted to war, they feed an insatiable Military Industrial Complex where sales depend on lack of Peace. Billions are made annually through arm sales to that region by constantly playing one side against the other, they can pay because they have oil.

 

There is no doubt that they're decades behind the West in many respects including democracy (whatever that means ) but you'll never know whether they're capable of peaceful coexistence unless you help them by keeping out of their way. In short the West wants conflict in the ME, it's the only way to make sure business goes your way. If deposing tyrants was important we'd be starting with our loveable allies Saudi and it's closely linked allies not the likes of Libya, Iran or Syria. Incidentally the establishment of Israel too was a master stroke and Britain knew exactly what it was doing.

[rjimmer]

Over four hundred of our brave boys and girls killed fighting the Taliban...... Having left the country the enemy is now moving back in as predicted by most sane people. Your opinions please.

 

I don't think many people expected it to be any different. You are dealing with people who see tolerance and forgiveness as weaknesses to be exploited. They only understand physical force. Votes means nothing to them.

[Delboysparky]

 

I disagree, the West knew exactly what could and couldn't be achieved by exporting made up conflicts over to the ME. It's practically in the Wests's DNA , go back as many years as you like to whichever ME war you like where the West has had a hand and if you read up on it with an open mind perspective (leaving patriotism aside) you'll find the locals were merely pawns in the bigger scheme involving oil, money, influence and land.

 

You can keep telling yourselves that the people in the ME are war like blah blah but it is the West and in no uncertain terms mainly the US that are addicted to war, they feed an insatiable Military Industrial Complex where sales depend on lack of Peace. Billions are made annually through arm sales to that region by constantly playing one side against the other, they can pay because they have oil.

 

There is no doubt that they're decades behind the West in many respects including democracy (whatever that means ) but you'll never know whether they're capable of peaceful coexistence unless you help them by keeping out of their way. In short the West wants conflict in the ME, it's the only way to make sure business goes your way. If deposing tyrants was important we'd be starting with our loveable allies Saudi and it's closely linked allies not the likes of Libya, Iran or Syria. Incidentally the establishment of Israel too was a master stroke and Britain knew exactly what it was doing.

Agree in part especially in relation to the western involvement, disagree on the fact these nations would be peaceful without interference. They have never been peaceful corruption and greed are endemic and tribal wars have raged since time began, and always will do in my opinion l. Having seen more than one ME country firsthand I can honestly say that the educated meme era of those communities tend to be far more western, but education is sorely lacking and because of that the vast majority of the population are stuck in the Middle Ages. We don't kill our way out of a conflict, we educate the locals and empower them to create their nations future.

 

That said, unfortunately we will always need (as a nation) the capability and the will to take life professionally and proficiently, and sometime it's necessary to exert our influence to negate future risk

[Hamster]

Agree in part especially in relation to the western involvement, disagree on the fact these nations would be peaceful without interference. They have never been peaceful corruption and greed are endemic and tribal wars have raged since time began, and always will do in my opinion l. Having seen more than one ME country firsthand I can honestly say that the educated meme era of those communities tend to be far more western, but education is sorely lacking and because of that the vast majority of the population are stuck in the Middle Ages. We don't kill our way out of a conflict, we educate the locals and empower them to create their nations future.

 

That said, unfortunately we will always need (as a nation) the capability and the will to take life professionally and proficiently, and sometime it's necessary to exert our influence to negate future risk

The ME is a big place, sure one or two places are hot spots of conflict, Iraq was, though ably held together by Saddam (who I accept was Evil), Libya was held up by Gaddafi, Syria was held by Assad.........................all of a sudden the West says he's a dictator and must go !! Wonder why ? If the West making money depended on Peace , believe me Peace would have been found by now.

[69chris]

The ME is a big place, sure one or two places are hot spots of conflict, Iraq was, though ably held together by Saddam (who I accept was Evil), Libya was held up by Gaddafi, Syria was held by Assad.........................all of a sudden the West says he's a dictator and must go !! Wonder why ? If the West making money depended on Peace , believe me Peace would have been found by now.

(imo) nailed it

[Vince Green]

two words, - Tony Blair

 

two more words - vanity war

[Delboysparky]

The ME is a big place, sure one or two places are hot spots of conflict, Iraq was, though ably held together by Saddam (who I accept was Evil), Libya was held up by Gaddafi, Syria was held by Assad.........................all of a sudden the West says he's a dictator and must go !! Wonder why ? If the West making money depended on Peace , believe me Peace would have been found by now.

Fully understand, conspiracy theorists say sadaam was only ousted because he was moving to the Euro instead the Dollar and such a move would have crippled the US economy, not sure how true it is but I can well believe it.

[grrclark]

Hamster, agree broadly with your points, but what I would say is that the West are no more inclined to like war any more or less than anybody else, but they may indeed like it elsewhere and not on the home patch and for the time being at least they can influence that.

 

If we look anywhere in the world there is conflict and there always has been. Africa is a great melting pot of unrest, as is the ME and as has Europe been for 1000 years and more. The Balkan states or the Stan's are also the same, the Asian sub continent, etc.

 

It is the nature of us humans that we will always be at conflict, we will always want a bit more than we have already got and if someone else has that then we will fight them for it.

[KFC]

and as I've said before, the line of countries that are now destabilised through Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine etc makes a useful buffer zone between Russia and Saudi Arabia. It also helps control Russia's only access to the Med via Crimea.

 

We're supposedly fighting a 'war on terrr' whilst supplying loads of little militia with weapons that they then turn on us.

 

Still, so long as the rich people are happy in their ivory towers that's all that matters.

[Hamster]

Fully understand, conspiracy theorists say sadaam was only ousted because he was moving to the Euro instead the Dollar and such a move would have crippled the US economy, not sure how true it is but I can well believe it.

 

There are one or two theories behind the ousting of various ME leaders, the Shah of Iran was also reputedly helped out once he got too ambitious with keeping more of the wealth for his own people. Once you start reading a little on the Illuminati and their control of our collective governments here and in the US, the theories become quite plausible. Resistance to having a Rothschild central bank at the head of a countries finances is apparently a common trait of despots who eventually get toppled, but not without first being accused of being a tyrant and a danger to the Free World.

[Les*1066]

The Taliban were on the runway, waving the last troop plane away as it departed.

 

The locals will never fight the Taliban or Al Qaeda, so I don't see why anybody else should do it for them. No outsiders have ever won a war in Afghanista, and none ever will .... and that's just the way the locals like it..

 

Stay away from the hellhole and let them sort their own problems out.