Live Pigeon Shooting

[Benthejockey]

Don't believe everything you see on the Internet. Videos on YouTube with an agenda are always going to be biased. Just look at all the fox hunting videos.

There's always going to be some unscrupulous so and so that catches pigeons and half starves them and provides all but dead pigeons at the matches. There's also going to be the people that want the best for their chosen disciple, whether it's to your palate or not, who will provide healthy, fit, well looked after birds. I've never been or seen these shoots apart from that one anti video at the beginning of this thread.

 

How many on here would jump at the chance to go and shoot pigs on the continent, or game in Africa or go on a cull hunt in Australia? Have a flick round on the internet and you'll soon find that anyone that does that is a vile, child molesting, degenerate that kills innocent animals slowly and painfully and then bathes in their blood and wears their head as a hat whilst dancing naked with the locals. I'm of the opinion much like hunting that if you don't like it don't watch, if they're not doing anything illegal let them get on with it. It's not like they're forcing you to participate.

[ChrisAsh]

Myself I don't see anything sporting about Lamping and also think Battery animals is cruel

[Hamster]

It's worth mentioning that I have formed my views on box pigeon after reading hundreds of posts and dozens of threads on the subject on internet sites in the USA going back as far as at least a decade, like everything you can then make your own conclusions as to what is and isn't appropriate behaviour. My views on fox hunting, coursing and various other forms of field sports have been similarly formed over prolonged reading and absorbing of information from both sides.

 

In my opinion you'll never be able to equate something like pig culls (as distasteful as some may find it, I don't) to boxed pigeon. Even if you take into account the reality that some if not most of these pigs may be shot in unrecoverable positions and so unable to enter the food chain, the primary purpose is to preserve habitat, prevent crops damage and maintain controllable populations which do not unduly impinge on other wild life. The primary purpose of box pigeon is satisfying an urge to shoot flying birds to order and to bet money on the outcome. The walk in the countryside, breathing the fresh air, the solitude of a lone hunt, reflective moments of awe, the edible spoils, paying homage to the hunted, the immediate effort to prevent undue suffering should pray be wounded, etc, etc, none of that is involved in box pigeon. If ever the saying of the "indescribable in pursuit of the inedible" fitted...........................

[dougall]

 

I suspect our great grandchildren will be saying the same thing about pheasant shooting in 75 years time.

maybe but at least they get eaten.

personally think live pigeon shooting is not good from whatever angle it is looked at.

[bruno22rf]

"Don't believe everything you see on the internet"!!!!!!!!! Christ on a bike-do you think that someone with a hidden agenda has set up these displays of blood letting. The moronic lard ***** Americans who partake in such "sports" do not deserve to be classed as animals-they are simply way down the evolutionary scale but to hint that these clips may be false or tampered with certainly puts you on a par. Anyone attempting to tease out a rational excuse for box shooting pigeons needs to have a dam good word with themselves.

[Scully]

Myself I don't see anything sporting about Lamping and also think Battery animals is cruel

There is nothing 'sporting' about lamping, a 'sporting' shot is not what it's about; it's about pest control. As is decoying pigeons and corvids.

 

"Don't believe everything you see on the internet"!!!!!!!!! Christ on a bike-do you think that someone with a hidden agenda has set up these displays of blood letting. The moronic lard ***** Americans who partake in such "sports" do not deserve to be classed as animals-they are simply way down the evolutionary scale but to hint that these clips may be false or tampered with certainly puts you on a par. Anyone attempting to tease out a rational excuse for box shooting pigeons needs to have a dam good word with themselves.

Before you criticise others maybe you could explain what is your chosen quarry and your 'rational excuse' for killing the creatures you kill?

[Benthejockey]

Bruno if you watch the video the voice over shows the negative bias towards the activity leading the viewer to the conclusion that the protagonist has a negative bias against the subject matter.

 

I'm not going to get into a piddling competition with you because it's not a subject I really care about or have any interest in. Never going to do it and never want to do it (remember the don't like it don't watch comment from before) Fuelling the fires of the anti shooting brigade with tripe about one group of people being degenerate because they shoot live quarry in a way you disagree with will only come back and bite any shooter in the posterior. You see it as unpleasant and distasteful but then the vegan cat hair jumper wearing brigade see you as distasteful even if all you want to do is shoot those poor innocent clay pigeons. After all they've been raised only to be shot out of a trap and killed by guns on a weekend.

[Danger-Mouse]

 

 

 

I'm nowhere near the same league as Dave Carrie but I cheer and laugh just as much as he does when I pull off one of those really impressively satisfying shots; the fact I've just killed something in doing so doesn't even enter my head.

I can't deny recognising a fleeting tinge of peripheral regret that I've just killed such a magnificent bird as a cock pheasant on bending down to pick it up, which is elevated to guilt when I pick up something as lowly as a common jackdaw to discover it is still alive and totally defenceless, but it's obvious I don't regret it to the extent I don't shoot at the next one to present itself.

It's a frustratingly difficult topic, with an ever elusive satisfactory explanation, but at the end of the day, when all other explanations have been exhausted, it is the only explanation left.

 

 

Great post. Sums it up for me too.

[Feltwad]

It seems that things have moved from the original topic which was to explain the fore runner of the present day clay pigeon shooting and more so what is happening to those pigeon guns which are part of our gun heritage. To me these are more important than what is happening in other countrys .

Feltwad

[Hamster]

I can't deny recognising a fleeting tinge of peripheral regret that I've just killed such a magnificent bird as a cock pheasant on bending down to pick it up, which is elevated to guilt when I pick up something as lowly as a common jackdaw to discover it is still alive and totally defenceless, but it's obvious I don't regret it to the extent I don't shoot at the next one to present itself.

It's a frustratingly difficult topic, with an ever elusive satisfactory explanation, but at the end of the day, when all other explanations have been exhausted, it is the only explanation left.

 

 

 

I have to agree with others that you do indeed present a good few points, life is full of grey lines and blurred borders though, the art is recognising when we begin to fall on the wrong side of it.

[bruno22rf]

No problems, Scully-I shoot vermin and vermin only on the 6k acres over which I shoot-70% grey Squirrels approx. with the remainder made up by Pigeons, Crows etc-and I try to shoot only when the birds are causing my landowners a problem so, for example, I don't try to alter a flightline with decoys if Pigeons are not flying over the land I cover. Squirrels are a different matter and I shoot them constantly but under circumstances that I don't want to be made public. Hope that helps.

Benthejockey-I don't have the remotest idea what video you are on about but I have seen several over the years-I find the one where the young lad kicks the wounded birds towards the bins where they are then tipped on top of each other thus suffocating the still live ones below particularly entertaining - defend "sports" like this and you WILL be ringing the death knell of all shooting in this country.

Edited January 18, 2016 by bruno22rf

[grrclark]

Some good reading in this thread from the original post, thanks Feltwad, through to the slightly different topic of the relative perception of the rights & wrongs of different live quarry shooting.

 

I find myself agreeing with both Hamster and Scully, yet they are slightly at odds with each other so not entirely sure how I can agree with both, but I do.

 

If being coldly objective ultimately there is no difference between box pigeon shooting or pheasant shooting, in essence it is people killing birds. We create a difference by building a justification around our chosen pursuit, whether that is because we are killing for food, for sport or for conservation the blunt truth is that we do it because we enjoy it whatever excuse or reason we choose to sate our conscience. I think this objective consideration is the gist of Scully's point.

 

We are very rarely coldly objective, it is a terribly human trait, so there are subjective differences; I have no qualms at all about shooting pigeon for crop control, and it is hugely enjoyable, I don't shoot a bird that is on the ground because that satisfies my conscience of only taking a sporting shot, but I completely understand those that do otherwise. Likewise if game shooting there are plenty who will let a low bird fly past because it is more sporting (assuming the low shot would be safe).

 

These things are mostly emotional decisions, it makes no difference to the bird if it is shot standing on its feet, if it is 12ft high or 60ft high, its fate is secured in any event, it is really much more about the state of mind of the person shooting. I think this subjective consideration is the thrust of Hamster's argument.

 

For me it is an uneasy balance, I personally don't agree with trophy hunting as the motivation of killing something just so I can say "I killed that" does not sit with me at all, yet I can smile at the satisfaction of shooting a fast and high flying bird, which is also a trophy or reward in its own way. Releasing a live pigeon from a box purely so it can be shot does not sit with me, yet having game birds flushed from cover so they can be shot does sit with me.

 

After some reflection I think it is about our intentions and motivations in choosing to do what we do, particularly in how we choose to deal with the vulnerable. A pigeon released on command from a box within range of the gun and as such is made deliberately vulnerable and in no other walk of life would I consciously choose to exploit that.

[Hamster]

A pigeon released on command from a box within range of the gun and as such is made deliberately vulnerable and in no other walk of life would I consciously choose to exploit that.

 

Bingo

[Old farrier]

It seems that things have moved from the original topic which was to explain the fore runner of the present day clay pigeon shooting and more so what is happening to those pigeon guns which are part of our gun heritage. To me these are more important than what is happening in other countrys .

Feltwad

My appolgies sir

As it was my fault the thread went this way I was hoping it would go a bit differently and people would post pictures of the guns they use for its modern equivalent Dtl abt as I'm sure there are some wonderful guns and configurations from the modern day that in a 100 years will be part of future history

So back on track anyone got any unusual trap guns 😋

All the best

Of

[Feltwad]

My appolgies sir

As it was my fault the thread went this way I was hoping it would go a bit differently and people would post pictures of the guns they use for its modern equivalent Dtl abt as I'm sure there are some wonderful guns and configurations from the modern day that in a 100 years will be part of future history

So back on track anyone got any unusual trap guns

All the best

 

I agree lets have more on the guns

Feltwad

[CharlieT]

 

 

After some reflection I think it is about our intentions and motivations in choosing to do what we do, particularly in how we choose to deal with the vulnerable. A pigeon released on command from a box within range of the gun and as such is made deliberately vulnerable and in no other walk of life would I consciously choose to exploit that.

 

But is that truly any different to a pheasant, flushed and driven on command from a kale plot within range of the guns.

Yet many, you and I for that matter, find it exciting and morally acceptable.

[dipper]

I like heavy s/b/s ie live pigeon guns first one A J Russel hammer gun 2sets of barrels black powder when your 16 you shoot nitro.That gun cost me 12pounds .then had a greener blue rock .After that came a G Willis made the year after pigeon shooting was banned all the bells and whistles of pigeon gun on the side it read Willis trap gun it had lovely wood metal toe and heel plate. Down side 14 inch stock straight grip . I have at the moment a Westley Richards live pigeon 2sets of barrels s/s trigger expensive to put right .I will never again have single trigger on a s/b/s have 2 friends I shoot with between them they have 2 boswells w Richards hammer gun 30" Churchill with narrow rib.midland pigeon.One of them is currently looking for a holland and holland live pigeon gun.Dipper.

[Feltwad]

I like heavy s/b/s ie live pigeon guns first one A J Russel hammer gun 2sets of barrels black powder when your 16 you shoot nitro.That gun cost me 12pounds .then had a greener blue rock .After that came a G Willis made the year after pigeon shooting was banned all the bells and whistles of pigeon gun on the side it read Willis trap gun it had lovely wood metal toe and heel plate. Down side 14 inch stock straight grip . I have at the moment a Westley Richards live pigeon 2sets of barrels s/s trigger expensive to put right .I will never again have single trigger on a s/b/s have 2 friends I shoot with between them they have 2 boswells w Richards hammer gun 30" Churchill with narrow rib.midland pigeon.One of them is currently looking for a holland and holland live pigeon gun.Dipper.

You will find that most pigeon guns around today are by the top London and Birmingham gun makers ., A large proportiion of these guns used at pigeon matches were built by provincial gun makers,the main cause in recent years was the 1988-89 Firearms Act and gun cabinets resulting in these guns taken there toll and ended in the furnace , I feel a little efford could be made to save what is left, some would say they are not worth spending money on but they are part of our gun heritage, lets not forget that future generation will say we are period that butchered their heritage , in other words lets not destroy these guns we hold them in trust for those that come after us

Feltwad

Edited January 18, 2016 by Feltwad

[islandgun]

You will find that most pigeon guns around today are by the top London and Birmingham gun makers ., A large proportiion of these guns used at pigeon matches were built by provincial gun makers,the main cause in recent years was the 1988-89 Firearms Act and gun cabinets resulting in these guns taken there toll and ended in the furnace , I feel a little efford could be made to save what is left, some would say they are not worth spending money on but they are part of our gun heritage, lets not forget that future generation will say we are period that butchered their heritage , in other words lets not destroy these guns we hold them in trust for those that come after us

Feltwad

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Sir I would be more than happy to safeguard for future generations any of the above collection

 

Regarding live pigeon shooting, isnt it about time some enterprising "sporting" club introduced live Rabbit bolting, where a live Rabbit (easily procured from a pets R us emporium) could be released from a box and allowed to hop in front of the wating guns,

[grrclark]

But is that truly any different to a pheasant, flushed and driven on command from a kale plot within range of the guns.

Yet many, you and I for that matter, find it exciting and morally acceptable.

I think it is a little bit different Charlie, but it is only a little bit. I guess that a lot depends on the shoot too and how much height can the birds achieve before they are targeted. I also accept that I am being hypocritical.

 

 

You will find that most pigeon guns around today are by the top London and Birmingham gun makers ., A large proportiion of these guns used at pigeon matches were built by provincial gun makers,the main cause in recent years was the 1988-89 Firearms Act and gun cabinets resulting in these guns taken there toll and ended in the furnace , I feel a little efford could be made to save what is left, some would say they are not worth spending money on but they are part of our gun heritage, lets not forget that future generation will say we are period that butchered their heritage , in other words lets not destroy these guns we hold them in trust for those that come after us

 

I wholeheartedly agree with that, we are too quick to dispose of many things that fall out of fashion.

 

 

Regarding live pigeon shooting, isnt it about time some enterprising "sporting" club introduced live Rabbit bolting, where a live Rabbit (easily procured from a pets R us emporium) could be released from a box and allowed to hop in front of the wating guns,

 

Perhaps release a weasel or stoat just after the rabbit to really get it motoring for an extra testing shot

[FalconFN]

Perhaps release a weasel or stoat just after the rabbit to really get it motoring for an extra testing shot

Why not go the whole hog and get a wild cat chasing the stoat and a fox chasing the cat.

 

Sorry Feltwad, gone awry again. Very interesting stuff none the less, thanks for posting.

[grrclark]

Why not go the whole hog and get a wild cat chasing the stoat and a fox chasing the cat.

 

Sorry Feltwad, gone awry again. Very interesting stuff none the less, thanks for posting.

That could be marketed as the ultimate 2-4 gun flush. Who or what was all of the hog chasing?

[FalconFN]

That could be marketed as the ultimate 2-4 gun flush. Who or what was all of the hog chasing?

The Dukes of Hazzard?

[grrclark]

The Dukes of Hazzard?

That's a boss answer

[Scully]

 

 

Regarding live pigeon shooting, isnt it about time some enterprising "sporting" club introduced live Rabbit bolting, where a live Rabbit (easily procured from a pets R us emporium) could be released from a box and allowed to hop in front of the wating guns,

You don't need a club, you just need a ferret, or preferably two. We bolt rabbits to guns at every opportunity; it is up there with the most challenging of shooting disciplines and one of my favourite types of shooting.

My apologies to the OP for straying way off topic; I'll see if I can get some pic's of my mates live pigeon breechloaders this coming weekend, and post on here.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Scully