Smokersmith Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 There's nothing wrong with your set up at all .... Have a think about how you create the lead ..... if you're not accelerating away from the bird, you will be missing behind. Gun speed is key, and with clays it's easy to get used to a more measured approach. Pull away, squeeze, keep going, and then watch then fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalfordninja33 Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 I've found the opposite. Most good clay shots i have known/seen, have all been good on live stuff. I suspect that with the guys I shoot with much of it is down to experience more than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalfordninja33 Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 What they said. I'm the same - okay on clays but currently rubbish on anything with wings. Pheasants look fat and slow - particularly if gliding - they are still quite a long way away and probably still moving faster than your average clay = more lead Most clays are under power from the trap in the first 2-3 seconds and can quickly slow down. When clay shooting you tend to plan ahead a bit, pick your kill zone, wait for the clay to slow down and then nail it. We rarely shoot them at `full speed` just as they leave the trap. I got my mate to watch me pigeon shooting and I simply wasn't adding enough lead. Had to really force myself to push the gun further on. If you can get someone to look over your should they should be able to tell you if you're in front/behind. I suspect it's the latter. Keep at it - no such thing as an easy target! Keep adding more lead and see what happens. Choke selection is irrelevant at this point. I taught a friend to shoot a few years ago and he was the same, At the beginning of this season I told him to give the birds twice the lead he thought the bird required on crossers, if he missed with the first barrel he fired the second very quickly. I explained that he's more than likely missed behind with the first and needed slow his second shot down to give him time to increase the lead from the first shot, his shooting's been more consistent this year. He uses cylinder and quarter with 32gm of no6, plenty of lead, plenty of spread!! It takes some confidence to push that far in front of the bird. There are odd occasions on the really long stuff where I'm giving the bird so much lead I struggle to see it in my peripheral vision, I've always shot with my right eye closed, left handed, as I'm right eye dominant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 Who ever says you can't miss in front is talking rubbish, you can also miss to the left, right, underneath and over the top depending on the bird. OP my suggestion go and have a decent lesson at a ground with a selection of drive high towers with an instructor who understands driven game shooting. You owe it to the birds to at least do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 Who ever says you can't miss in front is talking rubbish, you can also miss to the left, right, underneath and over the top depending on the bird. OP my suggestion go and have a decent lesson at a ground with a selection of drive high towers with an instructor who understands driven game shooting. You owe it to the birds to at least do that. hello, yes all correct and worth a visit as you mention, worth noting to a shooty book by J E M Ruffer the art of good shooting. that is not to say the PW member needs but everything helps to get the best out of our shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingit Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 Who ever says you can't miss in front is talking rubbish, you can also miss to the left, right, underneath and over the top depending on the bird.OP my suggestion go and have a decent lesson at a ground with a selection of drive high towers with an instructor who understands driven game shooting. You owe it to the birds to at least do that.You are of course correct in what you say but!The gentleman as stated he is a good shot on the clays,this tells me he as no problem getting the line of the target,is gun fits well ect ect. I'm not a qualified instructor by any means but the people I have tried to put right over the years on driven pheasants it's nearly always been a lead problem...not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 Some really interesting info here guys, Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning123 Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 You are of course correct in what you say but! The gentleman as stated he is a good shot on the clays,this tells me he as no problem getting the line of the target,is gun fits well ect ect. I'm not a qualified instructor by any means but the people I have tried to put right over the years on driven pheasants it's nearly always been a lead problem...not enough. I agree - I have stood behind a number of guns who were having problems, and noted that they were not giving enough lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'm not a qualified instructor by any means. There may be the difference some of us do this most days both in the field and on shooting schools. 8 game shooting clients today 4 consistently missing in front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldfarmer Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 I have to agree with WW - my guess is that for every 2 game shooters that are missing behind I get 1 who is missing in front. The ones that miss behind can usually improve themselves - given time and plenty of birds to shoot at - as they see the tail flick - but those who are missing in front just get worse as they keep on giving more lead. As I said before - try to make a good assessment of how high your birds actually are and adjust your lead accordingly. At South Worcester we have some tall clays as well as some more modest driven targets which I try to show as realistically as possible which gives the game shot a good perspective of the different leads they need. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 Yep, I can only concur with the above posts Have a look at the 'See the Lead' website (link below) and particularly the game page - it might just give you some useful pointers. >> See the Lead << Thanks for the link, very nice examples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Their was a pull out page published in one of the shooting mags that you pulled out put on a wall and placed your barrels on the point on the page it then showed pheasants and the lead required at different distances, also the size of bird relative to your muzzles for distance, Very good for getting them sight pictures built up. I find it easier to look and think in terms of how many times the birds length I need in lead. 3x length of a cock pheasant around nine feet. Edited January 20, 2016 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 The Eley Shooters Diary used to have a page with similar silhouettes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I too have been having troubles on driven. After many years of rough shooting and a full summer of clay shooting I was feeling quite smug about my first season at trying some driven birds ...how hard can it be ? Oh dear, how embarrassing. It started off bad and has got worse !! Nothing high on this little shoot, tree tops at most may be a bit higher but I can't find them. Confidence and all reason gone out of the window now. On a bird like this what kind of lead are we talking about if you swing through or shoot maintained lead, just roughly to get me somewhere near once more because I'm going from one extreme to the other ! It does not help that chances are thin on the ground so not much chance of practicing so to speak. Great thread by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I too have been having troubles on driven. After many years of rough shooting and a full summer of clay shooting I was feeling quite smug about my first season at trying some driven birds ...how hard can it be ? Oh dear, how embarrassing. It started off bad and has got worse !! Nothing high on this little shoot, tree tops at most may be a bit higher but I can't find them. Confidence and all reason gone out of the window now. On a bird like this what kind of lead are we talking about if you swing through or shoot maintained lead, just roughly to get me somewhere near once more because I'm going from one extreme to the other ! It does not help that chances are thin on the ground so not much chance of practicing so to speak. Great thread by the way. Impossible question to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdie2013 Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Wouldn't worry about the chokes IMO; ive seen the odd gun changing chokes all through the day and still missing/using it as an excuse! Personally Ive not changed mine since I got my present gun 5+ years ago and actually forgot my case has a load of them in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldfarmer Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Motty - At my shooting ground I have 4 basic driven targets off the towers. The lowest is tree top height(60ft - 20yrds) - the next about a tree and a half (80ft) the next is around 2 trees - say 100ft and the midi off the big crane is probably flying over you at 130 - 140 ft but travelling faster than your average pheasant so the lead picture would be for an average 50 yard bird. The lead you actually see is so much depends on your style of shooting - ie the speed of the guns acceleration relative to the bird, your reaction time, your spaceil awareness and how you judge the gap, your ability to continue with your swing, how high your gun naturally points, how consistent your gun mount is - the list goes on - but non of this is any help for a 'quick fix' to get you hitting those last few birds this season. Where I start with shooters either new to driven shooting or having problems - and you have to start somewhere - is to suggest 1 cock pheasant lead on the tree top bird - 2 pheasants on the 1 1/2 tree bird - 3 on the 2 tree bird and 4 on the higher bird. This works as a starting off point and then we can 'tweak' the lead a little if that isn't working. Shooting off the line is just as common as getting the lead wrong. You may marvel at the fact that we can shoot moving targets at all - but most people can get to be fairly competent with a little guidance and plenty of practice. Hope this helps and you manage to connect with something. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The Eley Shooters Diary used to have a page with similar silhouettes! Still does. Just not the suggested lead required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Heron Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Take your gun and pattern plate it you will be amazed at the gaps in the pattern change choke cartridge combination until you are happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I shall be using one of my SxS with 8 thou and 11thou and an ounce of 6s from George at Proper Cartridges! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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