Governments Plan To Save Steel

[krugerandsmith]

Buy British Steel ! ........ Brilliant. ... Question. What British Steel? after letting the industry go to the wall.

 

 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Steel produced in Great Britain in plants owned by India.

 

 

If the Port Talbot plant was losing Tata a million pounds a day just to stay afloat I can see why the Government do not intend to step in an take on that white elephant.

 

 

Until there is less surplus steel for sale around the world the price will remain too low for production in this country to be viable.

Edited April 3, 2016 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Munzy]

Steel produced in Great Britain in plants owned by India.

 

 

If the Port Talbot plant was losing Tata a million pounds a day just to stay afloat I can see why the Government do not intend to step in an take on that white elephant.

 

 

Until there is less surplus steel for sale around the world the price will remain too low for production in this country to be viable.

Exactly. I'm a little too young to remember the intricacies of the coal industry's demise but I seem to recall the same; pits closing because they were simply unprofitable.

 

At what stage does the government step in to bankroll a business that doesn't make money? How can a country with a huge financial deficit and so much debt be expected to buy a business that loses £1m everyday? Thousands of jobs at stake, communities decimated by the closure, I get that, but it doesn't cut both ways. We can't expect our government to step in and save all the jobs and keep a loss making business going and at the same time moan about their spending / budget cuts in other areas.

 

As a small business owner myself it is my responsibility to foresee issues in my market and adapt or diversify to avoid issues. If I can't do that, if I can't compete I go under and have to start something else. Am I being unduly harsh to say that our country cannot afford to support a dead business and people need to move on to pastures new?

[Konnie]

Several different opinions about.

Deal has been done with china to get investment in uk, when they were here, so if steel goes it's a sweetner to china.

If steel industry goes ticks all uk emission boxes for several years.

 

Are not Germany supporting their steel industry by some back door method, as this is not allowed by EU.

 

Only ever seem to be our good old Englishness that makes us play by the rules.

[rodp]

I seem to remember reading we apply a 23% (?) tariff on Chinese steel coming here, China applies a 46% (?) tariff on our steel going to China, America applies a 246% (?) on Chinese steel going there. Something isn't right here, someone somewhere wants, for whatever reason, cheap Chinese steel in this country. It's either (A) to keep the Chinese sweet so they keep pouring money into the country (all of which goes through the city of course) or (B) someone is making a lot of money using cheap steel.

 

The whole thing stinks, there's more to this than we know and eventually it will all come out. It will be too late of course by then, steel industry will have long gone.

[norfolk dumpling]

There was a suggestion by shutting down steel plants we actually then hit our co2 targets - perhaps the whole thing really doesn't stink???

[rodp]

There was a suggestion by shutting down steel plants we actually then hit our co2 targets - perhaps the whole thing really doesn't stink???

And who stands to gain from that ? What you can be sure of is this is too big to be just disregarded as some frivolous business problem. When a countries steel industry collapses it's quite serious, so you can guarantee there's more to this than we know.

[keg]

Exactly. I'm a little too young to remember the intricacies of the coal industry's demise but I seem to recall the same; pits closing because they were simply unprofitable.

 

At what stage does the government step in to bankroll a business that doesn't make money? How can a country with a huge financial deficit and so much debt be expected to buy a business that loses £1m everyday? Thousands of jobs at stake, communities decimated by the closure, I get that, but it doesn't cut both ways. We can't expect our government to step in and save all the jobs and keep a loss making business going and at the same time moan about their spending / budget cuts in other areas.

 

As a small business owner myself it is my responsibility to foresee issues in my market and adapt or diversify to avoid issues. If I can't do that, if I can't compete I go under and have to start something else. Am I being unduly harsh to say that our country cannot afford to support a dead business and people need to move on to pastures new?

Forget just making money, back in the 1980s the subsidies were HUGE just to keep an industry afloat. We don't do it for any others wheel coal or steel expect to be treated differently, i don't know.

 

Ravenscraig now has lower unemployment and is not reliant on one big plant for jobs like it was in the 1980s but still people want the old days back. Why?

[rodp]

Forget just making money, back in the 1980s the subsidies were HUGE just to keep an industry afloat. We don't do it for any others wheel coal or steel expect to be treated differently, i don't know.

 

Ravenscraig now has lower unemployment and is not reliant on one big plant for jobs like it was in the 1980s but still people want the old days back. Why?

Don't think it's so much wanting the old days back, it's more about keeping a countries independence and of course, wanting the government to give us a level playing field with the rest of the world.

[armsid]

level playing field? that will never happenas has been said germany has bailed out its steel industry why can.t we? more reason for staying inEU we have nothing left if steel goes and what quality is chinese steel as has been said before the steel coming in is carp what do we do wait till a building collapses due to inferior strenghning rods in the structure. as for carbon emmissions the steel is produced in coal fired steel plants shipped by oil (diesel) powered boats to britain how is this cutting pollution all we are doing is pushing the problem elsewhere

[grrclark]

One of the problems is the pension deficit from ex British Steel pension days onwards. It was £2bn and that has been paid down by Tata to around £500m, but it's tied up within their £15bn pension fund so a complicated carve out.

 

People could step in to try and buy the operation, either the government directly or another private investor, or a combination of both, but they may have to stump up more for the pension pot than they do the actual business.

 

Undoubtably commercial reality is that we are uncompetitive in the global market, but that isn't just based on the material, labour, energy prices to manufacture the steel, it does factor in things like pensions costs, etc.

 

The cost of our steel now, or the profitability of the industry at least, is still being influenced from the last 30 years. Making a direct comparison to the likes of the German steel industry isn't really always valid because of that.

[islandgun]

oh well no steel and no coal to smelt it, is there a market for plastic bearings ?

[felly100]

There's a market for 3d printing so maybe.

[bostonmick]

There was a industrial expert on the radio this morning taking about the steel closures.it appears that the amount of aid we give to the tannery industry in Nairobi would be more than enough to bail out the British steel plants for years to come.it seems that our governments see the future of this country as a benefits based economy.

[felly100]

I don't believe that,sorry.

[12gauge82]

This goes beyond cost of our steel vs china, its about being an independent country with the ability to produce our own steel, what happens if we end up at war in future and can't get steel for ships tanks and planes etc?

[secretagentmole]

This goes beyond cost of our steel vs china, its about being an independent country with the ability to produce our own steel, what happens if we end up at war in future and can't get steel for ships tanks and planes etc?

Planes tend not to be made out of steel, too damned heavy!

The British steel plants will not give a warranty on the plate they produce if used for making ships, it could be used for making tanks though, apart from the fact we seem to be looking to Lockheed Marting for new tanks...

[besty57]

As far as I'm concerned ,they don't have any intention of saving the steel industry .why would they,unless they find a private buyer ,they will never nationalise it .not in a Tory govs DNA.

[hambone]

Planes tend not to be made out of steel, too damned heavy!

The British steel plants will not give a warranty on the plate they produce if used for making ships, it could be used for making tanks though, apart from the fact we seem to be looking to Lockheed Marting for new tanks...

 

I don't know about warranty but I do know that super bayonite grade steel made in the BOS plant Port Talbot is the best spec. along with other top end products. Where PT cannot compete is in volume of bog standard **** grades of steel like what is imported from china and other European steel works. TATA have had 2 x white collar reviews which have totally failed to address the fact that this company is massively top heavy with management and day staff. An healthy animal can carry some parasites but the same number of parasites will drag a week animal down.

[UKPoacher]

Steel won't be subsidised, just like coal wasn't. If an industry is inefficient why keep it afloat at the taxpayer's expense? Well, if the taxpayer has to find the cash to pay the redundant miners & steelworkers unemployment benefits, why not keep them in a job and get something back for it? When the pits shut in my area most of the newsagents went out of business, as did many pubs, local grocery shops, etc. People didn't have the same disposable income so some of the the big shops in nearby towns went under, shops that had been solvent for generations.

 

But the Tories don't believe in subsidising failing industries, unless of course they are owned by rich people.......

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich

[hambone]

Steel won't be subsidised, just like coal wasn't. If an industry is inefficient why keep it afloat at the taxpayer's expense? Well, if the taxpayer has to find the cash to pay the redundant miners & steelworkers unemployment benefits, why not keep them in a job and get something back for it? When the pits shut in my area most of the newsagents went out of business, as did many pubs, local grocery shops, etc. People didn't have the same disposable income so some of the the big shops in nearby towns went under, shops that had been solvent for generations.

 

But the Tories don't believe in subsidising failing industries, unless of course they are owned by rich people.......

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich

 

THIS. As a steelworker I can see the gov. reason not to help but the big picture is grim and does propping up a failing industry work out cheaper than paying benefits?

[keg]

There was a industrial expert on the radio this morning taking about the steel closures.it appears that the amount of aid we give to the tannery industry in Nairobi would be more than enough to bail out the British steel plants for years to come.it seems that our governments see the future of this country as a benefits based economy.

I think the figures were in relation to an overspend in payments for foreign aid that would allow Port Talbot to stay open another 6 months.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/foreignaid/article-3520835/172million-OVERSPENT-Foreign-Aid-year-mistake-sneaked-Government-Friday-s-Port-Talbot-steel-plant-alive-six-months.html

 

I see their point but not sure it's a good use of money.

[keg]

Steel won't be subsidised, just like coal wasn't. If an industry is inefficient why keep it afloat at the taxpayer's expense? Well, if the taxpayer has to find the cash to pay the redundant miners & steelworkers unemployment benefits, why not keep them in a job and get something back for it? When the pits shut in my area most of the newsagents went out of business, as did many pubs, local grocery shops, etc. People didn't have the same disposable income so some of the the big shops in nearby towns went under, shops that had been solvent for generations.

 

But the Tories don't believe in subsidising failing industries, unless of course they are owned by rich people.......

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich

Farming a failing Industry?

 

The payment scheme benefits all farmers. Yes of course the more land you have, the more you get but as always, Mr Monbiot picks his argument carefully. Those large farmers still grow a lot of what we need.

[scutt]

funny how the gov ain't banging on about the EU rules as a reason for not helping the steal industry just saying .

[12gauge82]

They were quick enough to prop up the banks. I know planes are not made of steel but critical parts and weapons I assume would be and I can assure you war needs steel and alloys which I would guess ta ta make or could make if it were needed